Slowdown at North Pole refinery leaves tanks dry in Interior Alaska
Originally published Wednesday, August 20, 2008 at 6:42 p.m.
Updated Thursday, August 21, 2008 at 11:54 a.m.
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Stumble It!FAIRBANKS -- Operational issues at Flint Hills Resources’ North Pole refinery put a crimp in unleaded gas supplies, leaving at least one independent gas station dry for a short time earlier this week.
Gas pumps at Riverview Quick Stop were bagged closed Wednesday morning as manager Lois Hein sought fuel to fill empty tanks.
Supplies had run dry, and she was told a slowdown at Flint Hills Resources Alaska’s North Pole refinery was cutting off smaller gas stations like the Badger Road business.
Hein called two fuel suppliers, and was told by both that they couldn’t deliver because they weren’t getting a supply from the refinery.
Two major bulk suppliers, Alaska Petroleum and Big State Logistics, get the majority of their unleaded gasoline supplies from the refinery. They retail the product to commercial bulk accounts and gas stations throughout Alaska. Representatives of both businesses said the refinery problems did pinch supplies at the end of last week, but that the refinery operators say the slowdown won’t last long.
Jeff Cook, director of external affairs for refinery operator Flint Hills Resources Alaska, said the refinery is running, but is experiencing operational issues affecting gasoline production. He said the refinery is working on resolving those issues, and, in the interim, is trying to meet customer needs.
“We are attempting to secure additional gasoline supply from other sources to help meet demand,” Cook said. He said he could not comment further.
Rob Chambers with Big State Logistics gets a “considerable amount” of unleaded fuel from the refinery, and now is helping supply the refinery with fuel shipped in from Anchorage to meet the refinery’s needs, he said. Trucking gas in from Anchorage will probably add to costs.
“We’ve just diverted all our resources to Anchorage,” he said. “It’s the difference between a 30-mile round trip, to 730 miles round trip. I don’t know if it’ll be at the pump or somebody else is going to absorb the cost.”
The refinery is the sole source of gasoline for Alaska Petroleum, which delivers to its own Gas Line station, to several other gas stations and to some commercial accounts, office manager and dispatcher Lisa Sundborg said. The business had trouble getting fuel on Monday this week, although a restricted quantity was made available Tuesday afternoon, Sundborg said. The quantity met her needs for now, although Alaska Petroleum will watch the situation carefully, she added.
“They did say things would be looking up after tonight,” Sundborg said Wednesday. “They did not paint a bleak picture - not as bleak as it looked to me on Friday.”
Hein looked into other options when her local source seemed dried up. Shipping fuel by rail from Anchorage would add about 20 cents per gallon - a cost that she would have to pass on fully to customers already feeling a pinch at the pumps. Before she had to take action, at least one shipment was promised by suppliers to fill up her tanks.
The future of the North Pole refinery has been uncertain since May, when Flint Hills Resources president Brad Razook e-mailed that the company was exploring three alternatives for the North Pole refinery, and that a decision could be expected by the end of the year.
The three options being considered are investing in the plant to increase product volume and lower operating costs; selling the plants and associated terminals; or reconfiguring the plant. In addition, the state Department of Natural Resources said in June discussions were being held with the company to renegotiate the terms of a contract supplying the refinery with state oil.
Hein has never seen fuel prices so at odds with the rest of the nation, and said the refinery’s problems could be part of the explanation. She’s echoing the call of Alaska state Sens. Bettye Davis and Bill Wielechowski, who asked state Attorney General Talis Colberg to launch an investigation into Alaska’s inflated prices. Colberg responded in an Aug. 11 letter that on Aug. 9, at the governor’s request, he directed the Consumer Protection Unit to investigate state gasoline pricing.
In that letter Colberg wrote that a similar investigation completed in November 2002 lasted three years, was complicated, and did not find evidence of illegal activity.
Meanwhile at Riverview, Hein has petitions out that will be sent to Gov. Sarah Palin.
“There needs to be an investigation into this,” Hein said. “The people can’t take this much longer.”
Community Discussion
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Flint Hills is suffering from insufficient profits.
Just another way to raise our gas prices.
I agree with Tony another excuse to gouge us in the Interior.
Pat
Well they arent lowering them... might as well raise em.
Instead of a new transit station to replace a perfectly good two year old building and instead of another skate park when we have the Big Dipper and instead of a cultural center when we have a museum at the univ and the Carlson Center and the Civic Center and the Chena River Convention Center--oh yeah and a fish hatchery--why doesn't the borough consider building a refinery in some sort of public-private partnership to provide gas and heating fuel for the local area? If we have to launch into huge projects, why not that? Even while working on the S. Davis project, the planners are taking a survey on where we want yet new ballfields. I'd rather see a refinery and area-wide fire service.
Why not ditch the refinery all together and spend the $500,000,000.00 promised to TransCanada to retrofit existing boilers, furnaces, cars, etc. to run on hydrogen? Now seems as good a time as any to fully explore alternative fuels.
So wait, Anchorage already pays less than we do for gas that comes from our refinery, yet when our refinery runs out, we have to pay more to bring it from Anchorage? Of course, that makes perfect sense.
Since we are still paying 50-cents more per gallon than the national average, at least we know Flint Hills can afford to fix their "operational issues."
What a bunch of hooey.
if they are refining the fuel right there than why are prices so much higher than the lower 48???? gouging at its best.
I agree with most AK bowman but the fish hatchery is an important addition if you enjoy stocked fish. It provides the opportunity to provide more quality fish for Interior lakes.
I myself do not fish them but many do. As I understand the current hatcheries are not providing sufficient amounts for a sustainable yield.
Pat
Think about it, the Big Oil companies are making all the profits just read the quarterly stats on the billions of dollars of income. Flint Hills is trying to make a profit but that profit is thin. They are playing the politics game looking to renegoitiate the price they pay for crude from the State of Alaska.
The solution has already been put forth by a local Fairbanksan businessman to Govenor Palin, sell State of Alaska royalty crude oil to the refineries for a discount and then have the refinery sell the gas and home heating oil to the heating oil delivery companies and gas stations at a discount and then to us the Alaskan consumer.
Well the problem it that the oil companies are charging you as if the oil came as far away as let's say Florida off-shore sites. That's why you've been paying those prices. The oil companies aren't regulated on what to charge, but the market makes the prices then it's automatically passed on to you with an exhibited transit cost. Then the gas stations pay to move it to them, add on 25/gallon profit, and the tax credit from Sarah. They can pocket that and add it to the price. In the end it like having 10 people with their hands out when you fill up. And the worst about it is you you never really know who they really are.
Wait a minute!!!!!Just last week, right here on this same page, we read that the North Pole refinery produces primarily jet fuel and home heating oil and has no impact on fuel prices in the interior. Which is it? Is big oil so arrogant as to think that we, the sheeple, will believe any crap they tell us? Obviously so, and, sadly, obviously correct.
Oops. That should have said "gas prices in the interior."
Good catch AKbychoice. I saw exactly the same thing.
Pat
It would be cheaper at this point to bring gas in from Washington State. The marine tariff for crude oil from Alaska to Washington is only 3.5 cents per gallon. Even if we had to pay 20 cents transportation we would still be saving 50 cents per gallon.
It is funny that Flint Hills used to export 2 million gallons of gasoline after meeting our local demand and now they can't even meet our own needs. This game of cat and mouse that Flint Hills is playing with the State is costing all of us. They still seem to be meeting the demands of the airports and at a cost within pennies of what jet fuel is going for in Seattle.
I live within two miles of that refinery and have for the last 21 years. Never before have I felt like its time for a perp walk of management than when reading this today. This should be the final straw for us and the State of Alaska. We've made concessions to everyone that has owned it. Buy the darn thing and run it for the benefit of Alaskans.
I recieved this from Jeff Cook awhile back in regards to gasoline production at the North Pole refinery.
"• At peak gasoline production in the past, the FHR refinery (including predecessor owners) has had a high daily production of gasoline at about 6,300 barrels per day, or roughly 2.3 million barrels per year. Our total gasoline production yesterday was just over 4,300 barrels, of which about 600 barrels was blend stock from Tesoro so we could get the sulfur content down to mandated levels. So at 3,700 barrels per day of our own production, that would be 1.35 million barrels per year approximately if we maintain that average rate. This is over 50% of our peak past production. You are inaccurate when you state we are only producing 5-25% of past production levels. Your "facts" are simply wrong. The reason our production has gone down is because of the stricter EPA requirements. It takes more crude oil and more processing to get a barrel of gasoline with new low sulfur standards. We are fully supplying the gasoline demand for the great Fairbanks area market."
Cheers!
Breaking news from Gov. Palin.
http://www.gov.state.ak.us/news.php?id=1......
Governor Signs Administrative Order 242
DNR to Provide Support in Gas Development
No. 08-144
August 20, 2008, Anchorage, Alaska – Governor Sarah Palin today signed Administrative Order 242, directing the state Department of Natural Resources and the Department of Revenue to work cooperatively with any organization or entity committed to commercializing Alaska’s North Slope natural gas.
“This solidifies our commitment to facilitating an LNG project that is a product of market interest,” Governor Palin said. “By committing both project capital and natural gas resources to a pipeline that would transport North Slope natural gas to tidewater, an LNG project can remain an integral element of the state’s effort to deliver Alaska’s gas to market.”
Specifically, the Administrative Order instructs the two departments to provide specific kinds of support to those pursuing development of an economically and technically viable liquefied natural gas project. That support includes permitting coordination, fiscal and economic analysis, and facilitation of meetings with federal agencies.
A copy of Administrative Order 242 is available at: http://gov.state.ak.us/pdf/A0242_Aug20-2......
Cheers! The gas line is near.
FLINT HILLS YOUR NOTHING BUT GREEDY MONEY GRUBBING B------S! It's not enough for the gas prices to be as high as they are, now you're having "operational issues" my arse! You know damn well that if a problem did arise that had a direct affect on gasoline production, at an outfit such as Flint Hill, there is always a Plan B established to keep production going. What big stinking pile of BS!!!
Looks like white collar (Black Mail) to me... And,that they ensure that every $1200.00 dollar check gets into their pocket in December...
So now the flint hills have shown their true colors... They do not care about us only their own profits...
Maybe the governors task force will hit them first...
How can we live without the refinery???
Well, their employees may strike...
The state could intervene and pull their permits, and licenses as they are not fulfilling their promissory...
All in all this is on its face a BS. tactic. and promotes every controversial comment heretofore.
I'm really curious as to how many of you "Big Oil" bashers are buisness owners. From what I've read and heard, the refinery has a problem with the unit that makes gasoline so there is a supply shortage forcing the gas to be brought in from elsewhere. How is the refinery making big profit off this? It's not thier product.
If you, (and you may), own your own buisness making a product and can't produce it the same way at the same cost, do you not adjust the price accordingly? Do you sell your product at cost? No. You make a profit, the same thing every other buisness owner in this country tries to do.
Don't start bashing back at me for defending the refinery because that's not the intent here. My intent is to bring to light how one sided and blind most of these comments are. Please stop to think, resarch some facts, ask some questions before, laying blame and ridicule on someone that might not deserve all of it. Let's try putting the brakes on the bandwagon and finding out some truth.
Gov. Palin needs to file Eminent domain on Flinthills, for Flinthills ignoring EPA laws in a more timely manner, which has a negative effect on the state, for the common welfare, such as health or safety. Heat. The four elements set forth in the Fifth Amendment are present. Alaska's government derives the power to initiate condemnation proceedings from our state constitution. With not addressing EPA in a timely fashion, Gov.Palin needs to file Eminent domain on Flinthills, due to their neglect for the common welfare, such as health or safety. For the benefit of the public. The state to needs exercise its police power and to take control over the use of the property.
Eminent domain
The power to take private property for public use by a state, municipality, or private person or corporation authorized to exercise functions of public character, following the payment of just compensation to the owner of that property.
Federal, state, and local governments may take private property through their power of eminent domain or may regulate it by exercising their Police Power. The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution requires the government to provide just compensation to the owner of the private property to be taken. A variety of property rights are subject to eminent domain, such as air, water, and land rights. The government takes private property through condemnation proceedings. Throughout these proceedings, the property owner has the right of due process.
The Fifth Amendment grants the federal government the right to exercise its power of eminent domain, and the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment makes the federal guarantee of just compensation applicable to the states. State governments derive the power to initiate condemnation proceedings from their state constitutions, except North Carolina, which gains its power through statute. The constitutional and statutory provisions require federal, state, and local governments and subdivisions of government to pay an owner for property taken for public use at the time the property is taken.
The power of eminent domain was created to authorize the government or the condemning authority, called the condemnor, to conduct a compulsory sale of property for the common welfare, such as health or safety. Just compensation is required, in order to ease the financial burden incurred by the property owner for the benefit of the public.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionar...
Elements of Eminent Domain
To exercise the power of eminent domain, the government must prove that the four elements set forth in the Fifth Amendment are present: (1) private property (2) must be taken (3) for public use (4) and with just compensation. These elements have been interpreted broadly.
Private Property The first element requires that the property taken be private. Private property includes land as well as fixtures, leases, options, stocks, and other items. The rifle that was used to kill President john f. kennedy was considered private property in an eminent domain proceeding.
Taking The second element refers to the taking of physical property, or a portion thereof, as well as the taking of property by reducing its value. Property value may be reduced because of noise, accessibility problems, or other agents. Dirt, timber, or rock appropriated from an individual's land for the construction of a highway is taken property for which the owner is entitled to compensation. In general, compensation must be paid when a restriction on the use of property is so extensive that it is tantamount to confiscation of the property.
The courts have traditionally not recognized the regulation of property by the government as a taking. Regulating property restricts the property owner's use and may infringe on the owner's rights. To implement a regulation, the state exercises its police power and is able to control the use of the property. Although the courts recognized a regulation as a taking in 1922, they have been inconsistent in their later rulings on this issue. In Pennsylvania Coal Co. v. Mahon, 260 U.S. 393, 43 S. Ct. 158, 67 L. Ed. 322 (1922), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that coal mining under an owner's property was not a taking, despite a subsidence, or settling, of the property's surface. In 1987, the Court stated that regulations that are excessive require compensation under the Fifth Amendment (First English Evangelical Lutheran Church of Glendale v. County of Los Angeles, 482 U.S. 304, 107 S. Ct. 2378, 96 L. Ed. 2d 250 [1987]). More recently, the Court determined that regulations that strip property of value or that do not substantially advance legitimate state interests are takings for which compensation is required (Nollan v. California Coastal Commission, 483 U.S. 825, 107 S. Ct. 3141, 97 L. Ed. 2d 677 [1987]).
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionar...
In Pennsylvania Coal Co. v. Mahon, 260 U.S. 393, 43 S. Ct. 158, 67 L. Ed. 322 (1922), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that coal mining under an owner's property was not a taking, despite a subsidence, or settling, of the property's surface.
Change the wording to coal mining for oil mining, Flinthills and PetroStar fit in Eminent Domain. It's legal, Is it possible?
The $1200 state grant to each resident, expected in a month, is the explanation for this atrocity.
Here's my favorite:
"taken be used to benefit the public rather than specific individuals"
Public Use The third element, public use, requires that the property taken be used to benefit the public rather than specific individuals. Whether a particular use is considered public is ordinarily a question to be determined by the courts. However, if the legislature has made a declaration about a specific public use, the courts will defer to legislative intent (Hawaii Housing Authority v. Midkiff, 467 U.S. 229, 104 S. Ct. 2321, 81 L. Ed. 2d 186 [1984]). Further, "[t]he legislature may determine what private property is needed for public purpose … but when the taking has been ordered, then the question of compensation is judicial" (Monongahela Navigation Co. v. United States, 148 U.S. 312, 13 S. Ct. 622, 37 L. Ed. 463 [1893]).
To determine whether property has been taken for public use, the courts first determined whether the property was to be used by a broad segment of the general public. The definition of public use was later broadened to include anything that benefited the public, such as trade centers, municipal civic centers, and airport expansions. The U.S. Supreme Court continued to expand the definition of public use to include aesthetic considerations. In Berman v. Parker, 348 U.S. 26, 75 S. Ct. 98, 99 L. Ed. 27 (1954), the Court ruled that slums could be cleared in order to make a city more visually attractive. The Court in Berman stated further that it is within legislative power to determine whether a property can be condemned solely to beautify a community.
You gotta love it to:
"taken be used to benefit the public rather than specific individuals"
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionar...
Wow,,, I didn't know their could be such a legal response...
Yes, I agree that maybe a temporary response is required, but in no way are Alaskans giving up any of their rights.
We don't need the federal government to resolve all of our problems.
Let us do it ourselves... Thank You Very Much...
Me thinks me smells a rat...
"Operational issues", what kind of double speak is that? Can't comment any further? With such vague and nebulous statements from Flint Hills, what do they expect the public to think? This should be the last straw. If this isn't enough to prompt the state to begin an investigation into Flint Hills' business practices, I don't know what is.
I suggest everyone contact their respective local Representative and Senator and demand the state Attorney General launch an investigation into Flint Hills.
GEE davenport, I guess you are in (Utopia) if not What's up???
Are you here with us, or just speaking down to us???
I wonder if Enron is Jeff Cook's middle name?
Exactly realdeal
Let us do it ourselves... Thank You Very Much...
We need to smile real big for the federal government who resolved all of our problems and smile real big for the US Courts who resolved all the roads of our problems.
And paved the road to right the abuses against us.
Alaskans taking up all of their rights, and to stop being lied to or taken for a ride down the road to the poor house. Let us do it together as Alaskans.
Alaskans learning and using thier rights to protect Alaskans in many ways.
Thank You Very Much.
P_Davenport
Thank you davenport, but you are way off point.
Imposters, can't........???????????
Should that State of Alaska investigate our gasoline prices?
Yes 94.29 % (165)
No 5.71 % (10)
Undecided 0.00 % (0)
Total votes: 175
www.fairbanksgas.com/#Poll
Here is some more from Jeff Cook:
"Unlike other refineries in the lower 48 States and Tesoro's Alaska refinery, FHR has only one source of crude, and that is royalty oil from the State. That puts our refinery at greater long term risk and at a competitive disadvantage compared to refineries with multiple crude supply options."
It must really be tough for them to have to get their crude directly from North America's largest pipeline.
Realdeal:
"Are you here with us, or just speaking down to us???"
Yes I'm here for the average Alaskan, I am an average Alaskan, I would never insult you by speaking down to you. I don't belong to any political party, I'm a "undeclared" so I can be true to Alaska and to myself. I speak out when I see wrong done openly, speaking out does benefit to resolving problems. To never speak up on a problem is self distruction to me. I'm a strong believer in education so I quote alot, I give links alot, I post vital announcements that affect us all. I love to read, so I see things others may or may not see. I try very hard not to be personal in my post. I view things that affect and effect all Alaskans not only myself. I never intend to insult no one. So, please don't take it as so. I'm a strong believer in education is all, which requires one to look at all sides of an issuse.
Thank you,
P_Davenport
Fairbanksgas wrote:
"It must really be tough for them to have to get their crude directly from North America's largest pipeline."
.......Which runs right through their back yard, meaning that they don't have to wait on tanker ships, off-loading or re-loading via docks and booms, etc., to gain possession of their product; it's RIGHT THERE!!
For what ever Williams Refinery's foibles were, they treated Fairbanks more like a neighbor than Flint Hills can even THINK about doing..
Gosh, davenport your turning me on...
Ok Quit, kissing my neck. If your a crossdresser then maybe I'll change my view on capital punishmenent.
You have still not addressed the issue.
Scat sceedadle
realdeal
"Thank you davenport, but you are way off point."
Please clarify how I am way off point. I'm addressing Flinthills, and the rights of Alaskans. I addressed Eminent Domain of Flinthills, which is our legal right to do because of it's impact is taken a negative impact not used to benefit the public rather than specific individuals" That's the law to protect us from abuses. Yes, I did post Gov. Palin's announcement, is that it? If so, tell me how I was off point, fuel and natural gas is both natural resources, she is our Gov..
Please clarify how I am way off point.
Thank you, davenport
this going problem they are having at the refinery is just like a tanker sinking in the indian ocean. just another reason to raise prices. flint hills has been a price jacker since they got the refinery. they said when they first aquired the refinery they weren't going to raise prices. two weeks later the fuel prices jumped. their response was something to the effect of alaskan should pay the same prices as the rest of the united states. i wish i had exact quotes for you but that is what they were saying. thanks flint hills for the high prices.
The Lord(flint hills) sayeth thou complains to much you shall be punished. I think if some Fairbank'ns(1000) pictched tents on the railroad tracks, and cut off the supply to Anchorage, then you would hear some real--CRYYYYYYYYING.
OK, I'm not on anyone's 'side,' but here are a few overlooked items:
N. P. Refinery, being very small as refineries go, does not have the ability to produce fuel as cheaply as most large facilities can.
They don't even have a cat cracker, so I have been told on a tour, which became standard issue 40+ years ago in most refineries in the US. Therefore they can't get nearly as much gasoline from a barrel of crude as do most refineries.
Combine this with new EPA standards (which allow us to all breath better now) and you truly do have the makings for a supply issue.
As a side note, Flint Hills, owned by the Koch family, is not really big oil, although it is a big company-the biggest privately owned businness in the the USA.
Has anyone crunched the numbers on what it would cost us (the state or GVEA or some nice rich Alaskan Family) to buy the refinery, and increase the output and efficiency? I am betting our gasoline/heating oil would get realllly expensive if we did that.
Just a bit more fodder for the feeding frenzy.
Cheers
fairbanksgas, did Mr. Cook explain why royalty oil is their only source of crude? Could they not purchase oil passing through the pipe from the producers?
What "new" EPA standards?
Flint Hills has been giving to Alaskans, since they took over the Refinery and now, they have shortage. Wow talk about price gouging.. As far as small refinery, come on, flint promised when the bought the refinery they were going to expand production. But back out of the bargain shortly there after.. Someone, please buy the Refinery and keep it all in State, shame lower 48 business is getting away with, what they been doing to Alaskans since they took over..
It is true that Flint Hills has no cracker meaning they can't break the carbon chains. So they are more or less a distillery. They can't change diesel into gasoline. I also no that last week the TAP was shut down and Flint Hills took that opportunity to shut down and do some work on the plant. Sometimes after a shutdown everything doesn't come back on line smoothly. Hopefully this is only a temporary problem.
On another note....The railroad hauls those empty tankers back from anchorage all the time. I would think they could backhaul some gasoline at a discount.
The North Slope producers are using their share of the crude in the pipeline or have existing sales contracts for it. The state royalty oil is all that’s available for Flint Hills.
As of last night Anchorage was paying 1 cent less than Fairbanks for gasoline, I think you have mistaken the cheaper cost of natural gas with the cost of gasoline. Maybe the State should not have exempt the low sulfur fuel part of the sale agreement , how many remember that the original deal was for them to produce low sulfur fuel for this area. I wonder how much this has to do with the EPA announcement about Fairbanks being a chronic pollution city. Is the population base in Fairbanks a market that everyone in the business will jump to get hold of. Does this help explain why socialism is so popular in other Arctic / Sub Arctic countries.
There is another Refinery out there called Petro Star and the guy to
talk to is Mark John.I talked to Jeff Cook 2 weeks ago and he told me
60% of there output is for jet fuel, the other gasoline, the big
player here is Petro Star,give Mark John a call i have, many times and he wont respond back.figures
Flint Hills is the 30th largest refinery in the US at 220,000 barrels per day, while Petro Star is number 121 with 17,500 barrels per day. http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/ref...
Here is the refineries reply on why we don't have low-sulfur fuels:
"I refer you to the April 1, 2004, royalty oil contract between the State of Alaska and FHR Alaska. In Appendix "A" of the Special Commitments section on page 45, I quote: "After performing an engineering study, Buyer (FHR Alaska) will install necessary equipment and complete such modifications to its North Pole Refinery or will participate in the modification of other refinery facilities in Alaska as required to produce gasoline and on-road, off-road, marine and rail diesel fuels that meet or exceed EPA low sulfur fuel requirements ("Clean Fuels")."
We followed the terms of the royalty oil contract by participating in the upgrading of the Tesoro refinery in Nikiski, Alaska, to produce and market the required fuels."
First...enough of this eminent domain stuff. Such a procedure has no place in a free society.
The use of the expression "operational issues" does sound a bit suspect. "we have a problem with a column." or "We have a problem with a control system." etc. might be a bit more believable.''
The other interesting point here is that we are always told when crude drops in price and fuel doesn't that "it takes a while to work its way through the supply chain." If the supply chain around here is so tight that a glitch at the refinery leaves fuel suppliers with dry tanks then that sort of puts the lie to that argument doesn't it?
Crude oil has come down over 20 percent, gasoline and diesel in the interior have come down around 2 percent.
Given the hijinks our glorious state government gets up to one might be forgiven for wondering how much baksheesh Koch paid the legislature and the officials at DNR for the "contract" they never fulfilled.
And the flim flam goes on and on with no help from the state or our so called representatives.
DNM,
why not send someone out to talk to the workers about this "slowdown"? It looks like Flint Hills is trying to blame everything on their workers, why not get the other side of the story? I am sure we would be interested in hearing it~
Can't one of our Fairbanks Millionaires buy a two-bit refinery in Fox. Mike Kelly would be a perfect manager for it.
Then we can get him into Oil Management.
That's what happened when he managed his (free) $350,000,000 Clean Coal GVEA Power Plant that it is not operating.
In the end, Mike and Jeff Cook can squabble over who is to blame for high prices in Fairbanks just like GVEA and the Alaska Industrial Development Board.
Meanwhile we will pay and pay and pay.
sounds like FLint Hills needs a management overhaul.
Great idea, Isanova. Perhaps Rena Delbridge can do an in-depth, follow-up interview with the refinery folks.
Coldblooded - I'll second that! Seems the minute prices start to fall, then BANG! They find a way to keep 'em up. I was just thinking to myself this morning on the way to work that it's funny our prices really haven't budged all that much. It's funny that this is all happening right before we all get a big, fat, check from the state. Starts to make me think that they're keeping the prices up just so they can get as much of that money as they can. We'll see if, a month after the disbursement, the price magically starts to plummet. We shall see.
Looks like the gas prices ARE effected by Flint Hills and Petro Star. Interesting interesting interesting. Palin, I hope you are paying attention to this!!
I would imagine if there is some sort of equipment problem causing an operational problem that is negatively impacting production it would be a priority to get it fixed the moment it was recognized.
With that said, what about the times in the past when it didn't have operational problems? Why is it we have higher gas prices than the lower 48'ers when transportation cost are so miniscule pre-during and post production?
It smells like gouging but is it? I don't honestly know...
What they did to Riverview was wrong...Because they are one of their smaller distributors maybe they should have cut everyones deliveries back by some percentage - so Riverview could have stayed operating!
Would it have killed them to tell all of their customers they would have to deliver 2% less of their normal?
Nothing like picking on the little guy.
I guess it just goes along with what they do to everybody in our area. Take care of Anchorage first & let Fairbanks slide.
Kind of scary to think that all of our livelihoods hang in the balance on this one company!!!!
The price for unleaded gasoline is around $3.60 a gallon in Arizona. What are you guys paying up there in Fairbanks? You can't possibly be paying more than $4.00 per gallon, can you?
And don't you have the lowest gas tax in the USA? Alaska's tax is eight cents per gallon. Arizona charges about 18 cents per gallon.
Adjusting for taxes, the prices of gasoline in Arizona is $3.50.
still paying around 4.40
Budget the $1,200 wisely.
Alaska's fuel is getting out of hand.
What profession gives a 31% pay increase a year?
What household can cut a budget again by an additional 31% - 40% a year?
October though March the heating oil prices are expected to go up by 31% on the national level.
What will Alaska's be?
Watch Flinthill's pump up Alaska's percentage.
Alaska's will top the national average percentage of 31%.
Where the prices they used came from, I'm not sure, the prices in Fairbanks are more than $.08 above the national average.
Energy Info Administration:
Residential heating oil prices during the upcoming heating season (October though March) are projected to average $4.34 per gallon compared with $3.31 during the last heating season, an increase of about 31 percent. Residential natural gas prices over the same period are projected to average $15.58 per Mcf compared with $12.72 per Mcf, during the last heating season, an increase of about 22 percent.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/con......
Please look on this link to Energy Info Administration
http://www.eia.doe.gov/
This is Alaska's site http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/state/state_ene......
Prices
Petroleum Alaska U.S. Avg. Period
Domestic Crude Oil First Purchase $115.61/barrel (North Slope) $118.55/barrel May-08
No. 2 Heating Oil, Residential $3.999/gal $3.919/gal May-08
Regular Motor Gasoline Sold Through Retail Outlets (Excluding Taxes) $3.633/gal $3.297/gal May-08
State Tax Rate on Motor Gasoline
(other taxes may apply) $0.08/gal $0.2144/gal Jan-08
No. 2 Diesel Fuel Sold Through Retail Outlets (Excluding Taxes) $4.151/gal $3.913/gal May-08
State Tax Rate on On-Highway Diesel
(other taxes may apply) $0.08/gal $0.22/gal Jan-08
Natural Gas Alaska U.S. Avg. Period
Wellhead $5.79/thousand cu ft $6.40/thousand cu ft 2006
City Gate $6.76/thousand cu ft $10.93/thousand cu ft May-08
Residential $8.84/thousand cu ft $16.02/thousand cu ft May-08
Coal Alaska U.S. Avg. Period
Average Open Market Sales Price W $25.16/short ton 2006
Delivered to Electric Power Sector — $ 1.93 /million Btu Mar-08
Electricity Alaska U.S. Avg. Period
Residential 15.69 cents/kWh 10.52 cents/kWh Mar-08
Commercial 12.68 cents/kWh 9.67 cents/kWh Mar-08
Industrial 14.07 cents/kWh 6.51 cents/kWh Mar-08
Flinthill's is already playing cat and mouse with Alaska, from prices, to producing control, to not fulling thier State contract.
Additional info:
fairbanksgas.com
Doesn't Murkowski own Petrostar?
Alright, I've can't take much more of these nonsensical, syllogistic, paranoid ramblings.
Let me start by saying that I am no fan of Flint Hills Alaska whatsoever. While I am philosophically aligned with FHR's parent company, Koch Industries, they forgot about their principal of humility when they came north. Both the community and their employees can attest to that.
Do not forget, however, that for over a year, the North Pole Refinery has been losing money. That's not an unsubstantiated claim, that's a fact. This is a partial result of Flint Hills' (the company, not the refinery workers) incompetence and arrogance; but it is much more a result of the typical extortionist methods of the State of Alaska, the retroactive rulings of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, and the legal battles involving the tariff on the Trans Alaska Pipeline. It also didn't help that in order to meet Low Sulfur regulations, gasoline production had to be cut in half without any drop in operating costs -- if the refinery truly had monopolistic control of the price of gasoline like so many of you believe, they'd be charging $8.80/gallon right now. If you aren't currently making money and their is no expectation that you will anytime soon, what would you do? Spend $3 billion a year buying crude oil to lose money?
Do any of you really want the state government interfering? They've squandered hundreds of billions in the last 30 years through inefficiency and unaccountability. How will they perform in an industry where the BEST returns they can ever hope for is 5% on their investment. Yeah, that's just what we need -- governmental control of our industries (isn't that the beginning of Fascist State?).
It is important is this debate to remember that the people working out at the refinery are valuable members of this community; most of them grew up here and they are doing the best they can in a difficult situation caught between a company that treats them like dirt and a marketplace that is simply not profitable.
Finally, regarding the article itself - the word "slowdown" is a terrible word to describe what's apparently happening. Apparently, some of the equipment in the gasoline-producing part of the refinery has been damaged. It was likely unexpected and no fault of any person or corporate being. Sometimes things inside those towers just break. By the time you shut it down, drain, clean, and meet all of the OSHA and EPA rules, you've blown 4 or 5 days. And you haven't even fixed it yet.
Our conviction that gasoline is an inalienable right is driving us down a course that'll ensure that we lose all of our inalienble rights. I've got to go now to check the mail for my wealth redistribution payment.
Who is John Galt?
John Galt;
You have a way to give insults with words, then turn around and give excellent examples of you, yourself being nonsensical, syllogistic, with your paranoid ramblings.
nonsensical:
1. Lacking intelligible meaning: a nonsensical jumble of words.
2. Foolish; absurd: nonsensical ideas.
- incongruous;inviting ridicule; derisory, laughable, preposterous, ridiculous, ludicrous, idiotic, absurd, cockeyed foolish - devoid of good sense or judgment; "foolish remarks";
2. nonsensical - having no intelligible meaning; "a nonsensical jumble of words"
nonsense:
meaningless, nonmeaningful - having no meaning or direction or purpose; "a verbose but meaningless explanation"
syllogistic:
Of, relating to, resembling, or consisting of a syllogism or syllogisms.
syllogism:
a form of reasoning in which two propositions or premises are stated and a logical conclusion is drawn from them. Each premise has the subject-predicate form, and each shares a common element called the middle term.
a form of reasoning consisting of two premises and a conclusion
paranoid:
Exhibiting or characterized by extreme and irrational fear or distrust of others.
Noun 1. paranoid - a person afflicted with paranoia paranoiac psycho, psychotic.
Adj. 1. paranoid - afflicted with or characteristic of mental derangement;
ramblings:
Adj. 1. rambling - spreading out in different directions; sprawling, straggling, 2. rambling - (of e.g. speech and writing) tending to depart from the main point or cover a wide range of subjects; "his excursive remarks"; excursive, digressive, discursive
indirect - extended senses; not direct in manner or language or behavior or action; "making indirect but legitimate inquiries"; "an indirect insult";
Are you connected to PetroStar or Flint Hills Alaska Refinery, parent company, Koch Industries, the dictator.
John Galt;
Are you connected to PetroStar or Flint Hills Alaska Refinery, parent company, Koch Industries, the dictator.
I've can't take much more of these nonsensical, syllogistic, paranoid ramblings of supporters of Flinthills the dictator..I sounded rude right?
A Man is nothing if his word is not his actions.
A business is nothing if it's word is not it's actions.
Insults are for ones who can not validate thier thoughts and statements in a constructive way or with valid links, often called ranting.
ranting:
To speak or write in a angry or violent manner; rave.
To utter or express with violence or extravagance: a dictator who ranted his vitriol onto a captive audience.
n.
1. Violent or extravagant speech or writing.
2. A speech or piece of writing that incites anger or violence:
- expressed with strong emotion
harangue, rant declamation - vehement oratory screed - a long monotonous harangue
The dictator is your friend, defend the dictator if you will, but leave your insults to yourself. They are not wanted nor needed to make a valid point. Bullying and name calling sets a bad example to children who do read the site. Most schools require them to read the news for school. There will be adults, and children reading comments, show some maturity with your education and usage of words. Your educational approach is questionable and insulting for it's representation of education.
Ms. P.
Who knows who John Galt is but I ran a search and this is what I found.
The question "Who is John Galt?" is asked repeatedly throughout Atlas Shrugged. Late into the book we learn that John Galt is the man who stopped the motor of the world and the leader of the Strikers. He is also the same character as the Mystery Worker.
The son of an Ohio garage mechanic, Galt left home at age 12 and began college at Patrick Henry University at age 16. There he befriended Francisco d'Anconia and Ragnar Danneskjöld, all three of whom double-majored in physics and philosophy. They were the cherished students of the brilliant scientist Robert Stadler and the brilliant philosopher Hugh Akston.
After graduating, Galt became an engineer at the Twentieth Century Motor Works where he designed a revolutionary new motor powered by ambient static electricity with the potential to change the world. Like Ellis Wyatt, he has created what many had for years said was impossible. When the company owners decided to run the factory by the collectivist maxim, 'By each according to his ability, to each according to his need', Galt organized a successful labor strike, proclaiming his promise to stop the motor of the world. He began traversing the globe, meeting the world's most successful businessmen, systematically convincing them to follow in his footsteps; one by one, they began abandoning their business empires (which, Galt convinced them, were doomed to failure anyhow, given the increased nationalization of industry by the government).
Secretly, these captains of industry, led by Galt and banker Midas Mulligan, had created their own society — a secret enclave of rational individualists living in "Galt's Gulch", a town secluded high in a wilderness of mountains. Dagny accidentally finds the town — and a shocked John Galt — by crash-landing a light aircraft while pursuing Quentin Daniels.
Since everyone across the country is repeating the phrase, "Who is John Galt?", it is natural that many people have attempted to answer that question. The phrase becomes an expression of helplessness and despair at the current state of the world. Dagny Taggart hears a number of John Galt Legends before finding the real John Galt and eventually joining his cause, and learning that all of the stories have an element of truth to them.
There is a clothing store in Vail, Colorado called John Galt Ltd. One presumes that, on occasion, a customer unknowingly walks in and asks, "Who is John Galt?"
There is a "John Galt Way" in Florence, NJ near the River LINE light rail station.
There is a "John Galt Blvd." in Omaha.
There is a "John Galt Press" published by students of Bates College Lewiston, ME.
There is a "John Galt Solutions, Inc." a software company in Chicago.
Looks like an Anti-trust suit to me.
This story sounds very fishy to me. Its supply and demand. I noticed this week that local prices slowly went down by @ least ten cents. I suppose if the refinery slows the supply down a bit and scare the public a bit, then the demand and price will have to rise again. This makes me sick, and its obvious us "Fairbanksians" are getting shanked!
Gait is about the most informed person on this whole post. Good to see some real information. wake up people...pull your head out of your a$$$'s.
btw, gasoline is running 3.95 a gallon in Moses Lake, WA.
talk to the state of Alaska. you'll get a deaf ear.
the state is out to make money and will continue to do it as inefficiently as possible, and yes...at your expense.
will it change?
nah...i don't think so.
if the state were to adjust royalty oil prices for Flint Hills, they'd have to adjust it for every buyer.
it's business, plain and simple.
profits win.
enjoy that rebate check...you earned it.
Momtothree-
Very Good!
I figured someone who already knew would come on.
It's been a long time since I read the book.
It was the only bumpersticker/voluntary sticker my folks ever would put on their car. They weren't much for talking to kids, so...
That's why I had to read the book.
Subtle things parents do can really influence kids!
Whats up with the closed Fred Myers east gas station?
$3.29 in Oklahoma with 8 cents more state tax.
www.oklahomacitygasprices.com
Oh yes and remember how the state allowed Koch Industries to weasel out of the requirement of the royalty contract to make road diesel in the interior? the estimate was about 100 megabucks to build the equipment.
Well, according to http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/arti...
Flint Hills Corpus Christi $250 mil. project for new
TX diesel desulfurization,
sulfur recovery unit. Construction
to last 18 months.
Nice to be the bum at the banquet isn't it?
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