Letter to the Editor
ATV safety
Published Saturday, July 5, 2008
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To the editor:
I have been reading about ATV accidents, and I would like to know why are kids under the legal age driving them?
I see kids around North Pole and Lawrence Road and on my street going 50 plus miles per hour all the time.
Some have helmets and some don’t. Regardless, they should NOT be driving them at all without supervision! Where are the parents? I think they should be put in jail for allowing the underaged kids to drive an ATV!
The kids are driving on a major road like Lawrence Road where there is heavy traffic and sooner or later some kid is going to get seriously hurt or killed. Why aren’t the police doing something about this? Not only is there one kid on an ATV but I have seen two and three on one machine going outrageously fast!
Community Discussion
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The PC answer is that the police have more pressing needs then parenting other peoples children.
The real answer is that the tickets for those violations don't bring in much money. It is far more lucrative for the NPPD to write tickets for speeding. Relatively quick stops, impressive dollar amounts for the fines and maybe they get to add a few things to the ticket to bump up the revenue.
(no, I have not recieved a ticket for anything in more then a decade so there is no personal axe to grind; this is my personal opinion based on way too many stories of exactly this from around the country)
What is the legal age to operate an ATV?
Young operators are frequently injured and sometimes killed on off road vehicles, including ATVs and snow machines, in Alaska.
Off road vehicles are not strongly regulated in Alaska. I suspect this is primarily because the legislature is loathe to create regulatory hardships on those who live in the bush and require such machines for basic transportation.
One might argue that the borough has the responsibility to regulate such machines within its jurisdiction, but "borough responsibility" is a bit of an oxymoron to begin with, and in reality I don't know if the borough has the authority to do so.
There are certainly challenges enforcing such regulations, too. When LEOs attempt to contact ATV or snow machine riders it isn't unusual for the riders to take off cross-country, traveling over terrain that is impossible for a patrol car to negotiate. This rewards the behavior of eluding police, making it more likely to occur in the future. We already have a huge problem with "hit and run" and people eluding in this region. Giving kids an opportunity to learn that they can successfully escape the police is not a smart move.
Practical enforcement would require trained police officers on similarly capable vehicles. I doubt that such a project would garner much support from taxpayers.
Eventually, it becomes an issue of parental responsibility. All too often "parental responsibility", just like borough responsibility, is an oxymoron.
In fairness, I'd like to note that here in Two Rivers it seems like every child above the age of 8 has access to a four-wheeler and a snow machine. While there are plenty of dangerous practices, the majority of those kids operate their equipment responsibly and reasonably skillfully. I've even noticed that some of these kids are far safer on machines used on trails than they are when riding bicycles on the public highway.
Leave the government out of this! If people don't want to watch thier kids and properly supervise them, it's called Darwin-ism. Police don't have the manpower to enforce such laws anyway, hell, they can't even show up to my house when something is stolen! Stop crying to the government to do something and follow the kids home and complain to the parents. If they give a darn about thier own kids they will do something about it. Best of luck to you.
Because parents of a legal age are allowing it. Simple. Let the parents say "no" and put some weight behind it. If you know the kid is riding too reckless, pull the keys! Remember, WE are the grownups. WE set the rules to be followed. The punishment for not following the rules don't have to be severe (but mine were), just swift and make a lasting impression.
Swanny, that was an excellent discussion of why, at many levels, there is little to no enforcement of the ATV laws on the books in Alaska. And that is why law enforcement can't win. For every one person (the letter writer) that complains that a law isn't enforced strictly enough, there is one (or more) persons(s) arguing that it is enforced just fine or too strictly. No matter what the cops do, they can't win, and someone is upset and complains.
Pavel, the areas the letter writer seems to be talking about (and the areas I see the most ATVs in) are far outside NP city limits, so I don't think it's a factor of NPPD wanting to raise more revenue by writing speeding tickets (and the PD and Troopers don't get the money from the tickets anyway.) I give a lot more credence to Swanny's reasons why the laws aren't enforced very strictly.
I spend a lot of time in the villages, and I have yet to see anyone, not one person wearing a helmet on an ATV. Guess it's just not cool, the peer pressure of being seen with a helmet much be too much to bear. In most of the villages the 4 wheeler traffic is amazing, continuous. I was in Buckland in April, there was mud and water everywhere, yet people were riding their snowmachines rather that walk, even though the village is tiny. Tearing up their machines too. Here is a novel idea that would solve several problems at once: Park the toys and walk more! Good exercise, save money, fight diabetes etc.
It is up to parents to teach their children safety. There is not a legal age for using an ATV. And who do you think you are to say who should be operating an ATV and under what circumstances? Call the police each time you thing someone should not be allowed to operate an ATV, if they have nothing more important to do, I am sure they would love to give the riders or you a lecture.
arcticracer, it is up to an individual to wear a helmet for their own protection. A parent can make their child wear one if they want to, anyone else it is a matter of choice.
If it were up to "parents" to teach a kid to get food 90% would starve to death or get lost on the way to the store. Most parents are a real POS (maybe 95%) when it comes to teaching responsibility and parenting. They simply don’t care and just talk the talk … be good Johnny.
Just look at the mess in the schools ... and they have slowly become the teachers of today. Every generation is a little worse.
Just look at the absolute garbage on TV ... a product of the schools and parenting ...
Now you want them to actually be careful on an ATV and, gasp, wear a helmet .... you're nuts!
Murphy will get ahold of some of these folks and our dividends will a couple less payees. If someone dies crossing a road on a 4 wheeler maybe we can lobby the state waste millions to build an overpass there.....
Just let it go... its ALASKA ! We have all ways done this.. and it all depends of the parents too. Don't get the government involed thats retarded. Yes there is an age to ride them but until that kid has accident like my brother did ... parents will let their kids do anything.
If I have to have a license to drive a car (which is a motorized vehicle) then everyone who operates a 4 wheeler or snow machine (which are motorized vehicles) along the easements of roads, or on roads, should have to have a license to operate them.
Well, just remember that 12 yr old girl at 5.8 mile CHSR, who was really hurt driving an ATV. She was hit by a car, and I never heard the final prognosis.
Be a parent. Granted, kids do fairly well with these high-powered machines, but with no supervision,...eventually someone will get hurt.
I guess it's a Russian roulette gane w/ATVs.
There are no laws regulating exactly the age a child can first handle an atv....however, there are sizes of ATV's that are more appropriate to children. The fact is most vehicles require an operator to have a license and training. Children do not need even basic lessons to begin riding and many parents feel it is not any more dangerous than an electric vehicle designed for kids. However, those little electric cars can not do 35 to 50 mph like ATV's. Children are meant to be under direct supervision when riding. This is highly recommended by the ATV manufactures. Each year there are sadly many children seriously injured or killed when the ATV flips or is struck by a car. Parents should at least give good training----and realize young children rarely follow directions at all times when not supervised. Good training includes use of the ATV: how to handle hills, dips, water crossing,etc. How to drive on roads safely: stop at each blocked view driveway, do not make sudden erratic turns, ride at reasonable speed. They need to know that drivers backing up --particularly in our AK large trucks----can ot see them! And young children under 9 should be supervised not 'set lose' on your neighborhood. In particular, all ATV riders should respect others people's private property and stay off. Recently in CA a young child riding with her licensed driver older brother was killed when the ATV rolled. She was 7 and I know many younger children around here riding by themselves. ATV's are vehicles and all 'drivers' should be careful. There are rules that must be adhered to for young riders on Ft. Wainwright and you can find out more from calling the MP's info line.
Scotty Berg.... should we have a license for everything including breeding? This is as dumb as kids having to wear helmets to ride bikes. (should we license that too?)The best teacher in the world is a screw-up. If we survive it, we won't repeat it. If we do, that speaks volumes for who we are. Keep the "gumbment" out of our business.
You I couldn't actually read all the rants about this crap. Were you always supervised as a child riding ATV's? Did you always wear a helmet? Sure some will say yes and it be true, others will say yes and lie to try to make a point, and there are the ones like me, no I didn't. I didn't grow up here in AK, I grew up in the backwoods of WV. I've been riding atv's since I was 5yrs old. I never owned a Helmet and still don't, of course I don't own an ATV anymore either. We used to ride way above 50mph on our sport quads. I can only remember one accident from my childhood and the guy lived while wearing no helmet.
Now I'm also not saying that not wearing a helmet is the right thing to do either. Let the parents take care of this stuff.
Adults get killed and injured on ATV's just like kids do.
themountainman: I agree completely. Lets just make a license for everything, including commenting on the DNM boards.
twodogz: You talk about the 4wheelers that are made for children being safer. I, and many others, will disagree with you. The center of gravity on those things are horrible. The short wheel base and width make them fairly dangerous. I watched a kid roll one over doing under 25mph.
Teach your kids well and nature take over. (let's see how many folks go after that comment.)
I'll bite! akhony, name notwithstanding. Make all of the excuses you want but the bottom line is teach'em right and they shall follow, should be the rule here. Nature is all well and good, but giv'em a little help. :)
That's why I said "teach your kids well" first. I always hate to see or hear folks just say the police need to do something, when usually it's the parents that need to do soemthing. If you see a kid doing something stupid and you happen to know their parents then tell them. That was always the worst for me, if my dad found out about something through someone else I was in for it, and then I learned not to do it again.
Someone needs to be held responsible for these kids. Our bikepath in North Pole would be the perfect place to go for a bike ride (as it was intended) or a walk, but,it can be dangerous with these people (not only kids) racing down them at sometimes over 40 mph. If you go and take a look at our bikepath you can see the damage the ATV's have done. They have eroded the edges and I would say in about 2 more years there won't be much left. They are clearly marked not for motorized vehicles.
The scary part is when one of these kids wrecks their 4-wheelers on your property. That is what happened to me 4 years ago. 14 year old boy out at 1:30 am in July. Racing his ATV - jumping driveways. Jumps my driveway and hurts himself. Now I am being sued. Let me tell you, 4 years is a long time to wonder what is going to happen to you because of someone else's screw up that has nothing to do with you...I was in bed sleeping. I have thousands of $$'s out trying to make sure I am not held accountable and haven't heard from my attorney in 2 years! Don't even have a clue what is happening with the case. Can't call and ask because it will rack up more expense! Funny thing is where he wrecked isn't even considered my property - it was the area between the highway and the bikepath.
So, you may want to try and put this on the parents, but some parents are just useless. I was able to look up his "parent" on the Alaska Court System and able to find that the guy doesn't even take responsibility for himself. This is going to be the problem you find with most people that let their kids go galavanting on these machines. They are sort of a "babysitting" toy for their kids.
So, I do think the cops should be involved. When you can be faced with losing everything you have based on a child illegally riding an ATV on your property without permission, then the law needs to be enforced. Besides that, we have a curfew in this town and the boy and his family still did not face accountability for the laws he broke.
The posts on this letter are a pretty answer to the original question. Legislation regarding underage kids and ATVs frequents the State Legislature and runs into all of these problems. It has been a topic of concern for years and years. I doubt it will be seriously addressed unless there are a lot more incidents. As for me, my kids will not be operating an ATV ever without a helmet and parent supervision. Oh, and, yes, I grew up in this state, and yes, I grew up on a 4-wheeler & snowmachine without a helmet much of the time and without an incident. That can't be said for a lot of my friends, and I certainly made dumb choices on machines when my parents weren't around. The best of kids can make stupid, irresponsible, peer-pressured decisions.
Let nature deal with removing the stupid and the ugly. Do not let the government get involved. It will be so screwed up then and you will have to all stay home and sit in your rocking chair unless someone gets hurt doing that too. Then we will outlaw that. Look people cars kill more than anything else but it is ok. They can make so much money off of them. Parents wake up and start taking responsibility for your children and care for them. ATV is not a babysitting tool. I am not opposed to letting younger ones drive them. But I am opposed to parents not being there with them. Wake up and smell the coffee
As always, your rights end at my nose. Permanent spinal and head injuries, all too common in the realm of ATVs, wind up costing more than any normal family can bear. The injured person will cost us all in the form of increased health insurance rates, higher hospital costs, higher ATV costs, medicaid, social security, welfare etc, etc.
Since it can cost society millions of dollars to support an injured person over their entire lifetime, I submit that the government has the responsibility to enforce the law against underage, unsupervised ATV use and prosecute incompetent and neglectful parents.
Giving the keys to a 400cc ATV to a twelve year old kid and letting him or her go out on their own is at or near the top of parental irresponsibility, IMHO.
AGREE WITH AKHONKY
akhonky 7/5/2008, 7:06 p.m.
You I couldn't actually read all the rants about this crap. Were you always supervised as a child riding ATV's? Did you always wear a helmet? Sure some will say yes and it be true, others will say yes and lie to try to make a point, and there are the ones like me, no I didn't. I didn't grow up here in AK, I grew up in the backwoods of WV. I've been riding atv's since I was 5yrs old. I never owned a Helmet and still don't, of course I don't own an ATV anymore either. We used to ride way above 50mph on our sport quads. I can only remember one accident from my childhood and the guy lived while wearing no helmet.
Now I'm also not saying that not wearing a helmet is the right thing to do either. Let the parents take care of this stuff.
Adults get killed and injured on ATV's just like kids do.
themountainman: I agree completely. Lets just make a license for everything, including commenting on the DNM boards.
I AGREE WITH THIS
akmom1 7/6/2008, 10:45 a.m.
The posts on this letter are a pretty answer to the original question. Legislation regarding underage kids and ATVs frequents the State Legislature and runs into all of these problems. It has been a topic of concern for years and years. I doubt it will be seriously addressed unless there are a lot more incidents. As for me, my kids will not be operating an ATV ever without a helmet and parent supervision. Oh, and, yes, I grew up in this state, and yes, I grew up on a 4-wheeler & snowmachine without a helmet much of the time and without an incident. That can't be said for a lot of my friends, and I certainly made dumb choices on machines when my parents weren't around. The best of kids can make stupid, irresponsible, peer-pressured decisions.
themountainman,
You shouldn't have to have a license for everything, that's not what I said, but for motorized vehicles that are used on roads, in the vicinity of roads, or in populated areas, yes you should have one. It gives them at least basic lessons on the use and abilities of the vehicle, and the precautions that should be taken when riding them. Why do you think they have a separate driving course for motorcycles. Why do they give driver permits to 13 year olds, and not just give them a license. At the very least, if someone is operating the vehicle like an idiot then they could have the license taken away, be fined, or have the vehicle taken away. And maybe, just maybe, if they pay attention in the class we won't see them in the obituary.