Natural gas to China? It could happen
Published Sunday, May 25, 2008
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Stumble It!JUNEAU — A few weeks ago, as Gov. Sarah Palin’s administration was studying the prospect of shipping North Slope gas into Canada and on to the Lower 48, Rep. Jay Ramras was smoking Double Happiness cigarettes with a Chinese “billionaire,” learning about capitalism in a communist country and trying to gauge China’s interest in Alaska’s gas.
“It was culturally unusual,” Ramras said Friday.
Between May 5 and May 9, Ramras, a Fairbanks Republican, and two other state lawmakers made a speedy trip to China with former Gov. Walter Hickel, Alaska Gasline Port Authority project manager Bill Walker, Alaska Natural Gas Development Authority acting chairman Scott Heyworth, and Dominic Lee, head of the Little Susitna Construction Co., which last year submitted a pipeline proposal under the Alaska Gasline Inducement Act. A few others went along, too.
According to Ramras, the goal of the trip was to assess whether there was market in China for Alaska’s natural gas.
“The answer we came back with was a resounding ‘Yes,’” he said.
Meeting energy demand in the U.S. has long been a selling point for an Alaska natural gas pipeline and is the justification for the federal government’s financial support for the project. But soaring natural gas prices in Asia and lawmakers’ desire to get a gas line built as quickly as possible are bringing attention to markets across the Pacific.
An export project to Asia could take a number of different shapes.
Ramras said he still thinks the state needs a big pipeline to fill the state’s coffers in future decades, but said his interest now is in whichever pipeline can get gas to Fairbanks the soonest. The project needs to be small enough to be timely, but big enough to be economic, he figures, which means some of the gas would probably have to be shipped out of the state as liquefied natural gas, or LNG.
House Speaker John Harris, R-Valdez, one of the other lawmakers on the trip, sees it a little differently. He argues an instate line and LNG export could work as an alternative to a big line running into Canada — and provide more long-term jobs to Alaskans. Officials with the port authority say the best option might be to start with an LNG project and tack on the Canadian portion later.
The application filed under AGIA by the Little Susitna Construction Co. and the Chinese government-owned oil giant Sinopec was different from other applications in that Sinopec offered to buy all the natural gas produced all the North Slope.
Little Susitna’s presentation to lawmakers this year in Juneau was the “most comprehensive” of any company’s, Ramras said.
Little Susitna’s application was rejected as incomplete, and Palin on Thursday said she wanted to award a license under AGIA to the Canadian pipeline company TransCanada.
On their trip to Beijing, the Alaska representatives met with representatives from Sinopec to discuss the prospects of buying Alaska natural gas. Ramras said he thinks the state will pay for his travel expenses, but Sinopec chipped in for a translator and transportation around the city.
Sen. Charlie Huggins, R-Wasilla, the third lawmaker on the trip, said selling gas to China might not work right now, but he argued it was important to consider all scenarios — present and future — and work to keep options open.
“It’s like when Mr. Nixon opened up China,” he said Friday. “It was a stroke of genius, and we have to continue to kindle that to our advantage.”
After Beijing, Hickel and Harris went on to Tokyo and, according to Harris, found strong demand for gas there, too.
“There’s no shortage of market in either one of those two countries,” Harris said.
The question, he added, is whether Alaska could get federal approval to ship its gas abroad.
Special session schedule set
The June 3 special session on gas line issues may be scheduled for Juneau, but lawmakers are planning to spend most of their time outside of the capital city.
According to a calendar released by legislative leaders, lawmakers will spend the first week of the special session in Juneau, during which they will hear from legislative consultants, TransCanada, and Palin’s gas line team.
After that, House and Senate committees set up to consider TransCanada’s proposal will spend three days in Fairbanks, five days in Anchorage and one day each in the Mat-Su, Kenai and Barrow. A hearing will be held later in Ketchikan.
According to legislative leaders, the road show will include opportunities for public comment as well as presentations on instate gas and testimony from regulatory agencies.
The committees are scheduled to be in Fairbanks starting June 12.
Community Discussion
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Could Alaska get permission to ship gas abroad? Hmm, do we prevent Florida from shipping oranges abroad? Or do we tell Iowa where they have to ship their corn? Maybe we should tell Washington state that they can only sell their apples in the United States.
Hey- we already DO ship Alaska gas abroad. And we have been shipping Alaska gas abroad- to Japan- for 40 years.
What in the devil is so hard about any of this for people to grasp?
Maybe some should take better notes on their "fact-finding" trips. Export of Alaska gas is already permitted for shipment to Japan, Taiwan and Korea.
But NOT, repeat NOT, repeat NOT, for Canada.
Hmm, so where should we try to ship our gas- according to the smart people with the Palin administration? To the places that will pay premium prices for Alaska's gas and already have export approval? Or to the country that DOES NOT have an export license and will pay the LOWEST price for our gas? If you guessed Canada, go to the front of the class.
So lets ship Alaska's gas, they say, in 2020 to Canada where it will contribute to the environmental devastation that is on going in the tar sands. Miles and miles of man made dams are holding billions of gallons of oily waste generated from the tar sand development. Birds landing in these manmade hell holes get covered in crude oil and drown. Its true. Just a few weeks ago over 500 ducks were killed in a Syncrude lake of death. And it took a whistle blower to report the mass killing. (None of this was reported in Alaska media- but it was front page news all over Canada).
So would we be better off from an environmental viewpoint if we shipped gas to Asia where there would then be less need to burn dirty coal that dumps lead and mercury into the oceans, and particulates into the air that make it over the ocean where it then contaminates OUR Arctic lakes? (And the fish we eat).
Lets get ready Fairbanks. When the legislative hearings come here legislators need to be told in no uncertain terms that Fairbanks must not wait until 2020 for natural gas. Not when we could have gas flowing here by 2012.
If we do not make our case- Anchorage and Juneau certainly will not.
The Alaska Gas - Canadian Tar Sands connection is never discussed in the media. The planned tar sand projects needed the Alaska Gas. Do the math: http://alaska-gas-pipeline.blogspot.com/...
Maybe the TransCanada gas line should be the "Y-line" to an All American LNG line to Valdez.
Five-o five-o,
What you suggest is "culturally unusual",
How do we communicate with Nikolski let alone Livengood, let alone Juneau with guys like Ramras presuming to dictate what is or is not usual?
I'd rest my case but there remains a constituency feeding off Jay's enterprising self perception that words alone cannot define.
And this is about power to the people after all.
Sure will be nice to die and be rid of this latest incarnation/crop of economic philosopher/statesmen wannabe's.
Whores everywhere and they become the judges, what's wrong with this picture?
Bottom line is, Trans Canada will be enforced by Blackwater, USA type entities, but only if we don't keep our own powder dry........
No need to negotiate with China about the gas. China is a bucket that cant be filled. In about 10 years, they will own so much of America that this discussion wont even be relevant anymore.
I think that Jay. and all Alaskans need to take a hard look at where we are headed and work on that. Let the Chinese worry about themselves. The fact that they are beating the west at our own games in monopolies, pollution, abuse of workers, manipulation of markets, are just the first of many wake up calls. Don't forget about how this totalitarian regime treats its client states, and don't forget about the environmental mess that they are creating in the name of progress.
Yeah, marketing China is a good use of our efforts.
I am sorry I for got something: the issue of Chinese official corruption is huge, and it hasn't yet been told.
Keep going Jay, Duke Cunningham will keep a light on for ya!
Johnpauls,
China is just a statistic in terms of where dough will go and most importantly, how we get some of it back.
The oldest Chinese curse I know of states: May you live in interesting times.h
I can more tan relate to that notion.
Stephen: Alaska is part of the global market, whether we recognize it or not. The argument, that Alaska must not be an exporter of surplus Alaskan gas, should be suspect of who is spreading the rumor.
Alaskans have a priority right for the gas we have, but export gas or LNG is open in a free markets. To prohibit a single state from exporting its products, for example: fish, timber, coal and potatoes as well as Cook Inlet LNG and fertilizer along with jet fuel made in a North Pole refinery, might be an argument without merit.
Part of the problem with high oil and gas prices is the trade deficit and declining value of US dollar. Either we stop IMPORTING or we start EXPORTING more is the only solution.
Put the shoe on the other foot and think about if OPEC and other oil EXPORTING countries didn't like our political system and wouldn't sell us any of their energy resources. All the known oil and gas reserves in Alaska wouldn't make up for what America is now IMPORTING.
Alaska needs to keep all of its options on the table and be flexible with our market options OR otherwise, Alaskans are going to get the short end of the stick.
What raw materials do we import from China? Excluding the Chinese themselves, none. Alaskans need to stop thinking in terms of exporting raw materials mindlessly thinking that somehow that we will be treated fairly in the uneven playing field that we no longer control, and start thinking about how we can add value to the resources we have. And by the way, this "I found it-Its mine" mentality needs a look at as well.
In point of fact its our children's and their children's world we are making decisions about, and right now we are talking about todays dinner. Right now, it looks like there aren't enough basic resources to go around. Are things going to get any better? What magical key will we turn to somehow get more energy, fresh water, air, or the other basic necessities needed at home. The Chinese will not save you.
The resources Alaskans have will never decrease in value. Thinking that we have this ONE opportunity, take it or leave it, seems self defeating to me.
And what about this "surplus" of natural gas. Cook inlet had such a surplus, that Union Oil built the Nikiski Plant to deal with the gas surplus and sell it world wide as fertilizer. The gas is gone now. Was fertilizer the highest and best use of our gas? How about north slope gas, is the manufacture of plastic doodads from china (with or without the lead paint(the highest and best use of Alaska gas?
*************
*************
Hey, Hawaii needs Alaskan LNG to power their Shaved-Ice Sno-Cone machines too !!!
I encourage all Alaskans to travel to places other than Las Vegas, or go back home to Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Florida.
Alaska should secede from the United Snakes and join up with Taiwan to bully China into giving up smoking tobacco except for on Friday nights and Saturday.
Siberia is a great place to visit,
as is Japan and Korea and Taiwan.
Philippines needs Alaskan LNG too..
..we can trade it for coconut-oil and mangoes !!
China already has made thousands of American businessmen multi-millionaires by allowing Americans to own factories in China.
I have a small stake in a small factory in China too..
..I'm the janitor.
So, like giving a bunch of cheap LNG to China isn't like being unpatriotic, after all we'll use it to make a bunch more Victoria's Secret underwear to sell to the Iranians.
North Korea can use some Alaska-Methane too..
ok, so they're a little weird, they think we're weird too, so whutt?
I know of a lotta Texans that are weirder than Kim Jong Il.
We can just dump some big bladder-bags of methane-hydrate 2000' deep off their coast, then see if they can come up with some creative low-tech ways to tap that gas to shore.
....Washingtonians are almost as weird as North Koreans, so we can park a big rusty bargeload of methane-hydrate in GraysHarbor in the middle of the night, then just split..
We'll read about it in the Daily-O and the Daily-Gspot,
"Heroic hairy-legged women from Evergreen College using mushroom-spores develop new babyfood from methane-hydrate"
Do ya think by giving 500mil to the Canudians that Texas will eventually break up into 3-states like it should have been 150years ago?
Hey, Alaskans passing gas is a hilarious hobby, not a business.
We need to get rid of all our methane before the screwballs on the North Slope screwup and blow it off in a cataclysmic fireball that destroys the Northern Hemisphere.
...a GTL-plant on the North Slope is stupid becuz it's a big source of heat.
The bulk of arctic methane should be passed southward through tunnels under the Brooks Range.
The gas-processing should happen on the south side of the Brooks Range. Industry must be held to a minimum on the North Slope, it's a danger beyond the scope or imagination of neo-con Bonehead Obscurity.
And whuttabout the poor Polar Bears???
...give them some floating docks to play on.
just like an outdoor zoo
......clash/fumble
Jonpauls: I am not sure if you just want to lock the gas away for some future date (like never), OR you want to export the surplus to Canada (cheap), Or your mad at living on the Pacific Rim and don't like Asians, Or you want to flare the gas at the well head and hurry up the global warming process?
OOOOHHHH...OOOPS!.....
I forgot to add-->
KEEP ALL NGL'S IN ALASKA FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALASKANS
..essentially for propane,
and plastics for big durable stuff Alaskans need, like plastic-pipelines.
And 40' refrigerated fish-totes that look like boats when you clip on a bow, and a stern.
And poly-foam insulation that can be built into cores of big lightweight fireproof AAC-concrete building blocks for making superinsulated fireproof buildings all along the Yukon.
And plastic robot politicians who stay in Juneau all year long in unheated offices, can't be bribed, and report back to my laptop continuously.
Oooga Oooga Mooshka...
means that I love you...
let's go laughing
....flash/rumble
DistantThunder: I like your humor, even if it sounds once in awhile like you might be a little too close to the swamp gas. A few articles back you mentioned setting up a plastic pipe factory for water and sewer pipe, along with the multiple plastic gas lines to every destination in Alaska. You got a good site for the plastic pipe factory picked out yet?
Once again let's sell out to china, need I remind everyone it's a Communist Country. How about Natural Gas right here in the Interior, or cheap fuel again. It amazes me how far out of touch the Democrats are with people who are determining between paying for fuel to get to work or paying for health care and other necessities. I SAY NO OIL, NATURAL GAS or any of America's resource to any Communist Country, that's continues to be the primary reason it now cost over $100 for just 25 Gallons of gas.
years ago it was said that if America does not want there country bought out from underneath themselves then they should quit putting it up for sale.
""You got a good site for the plastic pipe factory picked out yet?""
====================
Yeah, there's plenty of swamp gas under my covers at night too...
..ever since I ate that frozen WoollyMammoth I haven't been the same.
Actually you can fit a small-dia' plastic pipe extrusion machine into a triple-train of trailers pulled by a semi..
[or on a Rollingon]
..so you can do 2000'long mobile extrusions onsite if you don't wanna fly 8-12 thousand pound loads of pipe-coils around with a chopper.
A good site to play with an ethylene extraction plant and plastic-pipes in NorthStarBurro is right next door to FlintHills...
[it might be possible to barge a 100'x500' complete ethylene plant on the Tanana and park it on a slough in a graving-dock near there]
..or the ethane can be stripped from TAPS and shipped on railcar to Goldstream, Nenana, or Anderson for processing into poly-beads in mini-plants. You can make ethylene towers small enough to fit on railcars too. And with the help of some smart Chinese college kids we might be able to build some modified HilschVortex-tubes that will replace the ethylene-units.
[Alaskans have yet to master the skills of rapid product development and prototyping]
RTP-gaslines can be dropped right into the Tanana and strung down past Salchacket to Nenana..
Compressed air in RTP-gaslines is a good safe way to transmit and store power over long distances too.
A big network of little gaslines strung all over the SouthSalchaket Plains can gather plenty of methane for Fairbanks too.
[keeping the fire danger down,eh?]
....splash/fumble
Capitalism, socialism and communism the natural progression. Is it little wonder why the socialistic leaning of the Port Authority towards the State covering the cost of building and then owning a LNG line is looking at partnership with a communistic country. Why in the heck are you people in Fairbanks supporting this Port Authority group leading Alaska into socialism? Memorial Day is tomorrow, those we remember did not fight and die for socialistic and communistic ideas.
Im confused.
Yeah, those rascally port authority people. They must have built the airports too. I meant the railroad, oops I meant to say the Alaska Marine Highway, oops, I meant to say all the Roads in Alaska. Those socialist commie bastards. And way to bring Memorial day into your argument against the Port authority. You so Funny Randy.
Communism?
...that's why I've never made the effort to cash in my PFD-checks.
Memorial Day?
I prefer to spend my Memorial Days in Veterans Hospitals volunteering my time to the living who have survived the Mental Health Disaster called Warfare.
I spend my July 4th in the graveyard reading Rhymes of the RedCross Man to the dead veterans.
Many of my relatives have fought on all sides of most wars..
I'm old enough to have lived and loved WW1 veterans..
One of my uncles was a Nazi who fought the Russians under Hitler.
Another was a red-man who fought the Calvary.
Another was a famous POW captured by the Gestapo.
...and there's many more of my clan who make the dime-store militants of today look like nutty gun-toting cultists.
Warfare is Welfare for the Rich.
Wally Hickel-->
Some fear China because of their success, but I share the view of Sen. Charlie Huggins, a member of our delegation. A retired colonel and decorated Airborne Ranger, Charlie summed it up this way: "Isolation doesn't work in today's world. Our future depends on positive engagement."
I urged China to help tackle world hunger, poverty, the lack of electricity and fresh water the world around. I challenged them, as I have the United Nations, with the question: "Why war? Wars are just big projects. Why not big projects?"
As a result of the world's response to the earthquake and the message delivered by our Alaska delegation, the Chinese discovered this month that they have friends worldwide. Mr. Chen thanked me and said, "We have heard a voice from your heart." Believe me, having helped establish long-term trading deals for Alaska in Asia since the 1950s, relationships are the key to both world trade and world peace.
Rather than wait for another decade for a gas line through Canada, which must overcome a maze of obstacles across the border, we can move ahead now to meet Alaska's need for energy and create a world-class economic and energy lifeline within Alaska that will last a century.
To understand China's relationship to USA in 21stCentury it's important to include Seagraves in your library...
http://www.bowstring.net/
.....flash/rumble
The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission I believe is the one entity that issues a pipeline license. So of course the federal government will have it's hand in any pipeline decision. Seems like everyone has forgot the open season is where all this is leading to. Who do you think the producers will choose to ship their gas with? All this discussion is just like the oil futures market. Alot of speculation.
Hey Griffin, Is the Port Authority to blame for the Bird Flu? Do you ride your bike alot with a little bell on the handle bars that goes Ding Ding?
Ask Tibet what a wonderful Government China has and how well it treats others. I guess the communist leadership hear from the heart only when it concerns their own welfare. The Government of China is a communist one, and look at what has happens to the people of that country who disagree with the communist doctrine. SmallBob again I am not Randy. Why do you hate this guy so much?
If you aren't Randy why do you keep asking me why "I hate him". I don't hate the guy. I've never even met him. I've heard him on the radio. Do you ride a bike with a bell on the handle bars that goes Ding Ding? That's all I asked. Why do you hate the Port Authority Griffin. Oh please tell us why. Whaaaa whaaaa, they are commies. Boo hooo. The Chinese are Commies too. Hey Griffin did ya know that China is our largest trading partner already and they have a trillion dollar balance of trade against us already? Ding Ding!
And there's no Communists in US State and Federal Governments ???
....think again, try attending some State and Federal Employee Conferences..
..don't mingle, just watch while holding a onto copy of "How to Identify a Communist" by Sen. Joseph McCarthy.
read..watch
read..watch
read..watch
read..watch
Most americans are dupes, they wouldn't know it was a snake even if it bit them in the butt.
Tibet?? Human Rights??
Afghanistan, Iraq, Renditions?? Human Rights??
Worldwide, it's almost always the facsist-factions with government that step so hard on HumanRights.
1947 didn't see the end of Fascism in the Nuremburg Trials..
1947 saw Fascism get reseeded worldwide with the help of the newly formed CIA.
Some of these same Nazis helped me to learn calculus and geophysics.
Most humans become really-really two-faced when living under stress, others are just born that way.
gnash/grumble
Remember that Hickel was almost recalled the last time he was Governor due to his involvement with Yukon Pacific which he founded. He saw no conflict with his promoting a gasline built by this company while he was Governor. Despite ethic violations charges brought against him, he stated " In my heart I see no wrong." Hickel and Robert Anderson, Atlantic Richfield Company CEO, now deceased, were friends since Anderson's discovery of oil in Prudoe Bay. Anderson made the deal for the first oil rig off shore in China. Take a look at Hickel' history. Some of you are now calling him "The greatest Alaskan Governor" he makes Frank look like an angel when it comes to oil company connections.Glad to see Palin has backed away from Hickel.
Apparently not all dinosaurs are extinct.
China is a large part of our current problem with high gas and oil problems. They can not get enough and are willing to pay more for it. China is growing so fast they are going to keep driving the price up. Energy is power. We should continue to import oil as long as possible even paying the high prices and let ours either sit in the ground or use it in state with only enough being sold outside of Alaska to the highest bidder to let the pipeline break even each year so to keep our in state prices down. Offer the same low in state prices to any and all companies who will start producing or manufactoring plants in Ak. We need to be exporting products not oil and gas. When it is all gone then what. We do not need to be in such a big rush to pump it out of state.
(This comment was removed by the Newsminer.com staff. Please see our User Agreement for further information.)
Everyday Alaska loses more methane to atmosphere than will ever be exported to anywhere [including anything shipped thru Canada].
Alaska's Methane is a surplus, just like snow, and it's a potential disaster waiting to happen if it's ignored.
China really doesn't absolutely NEED Alaska's LNG..
..Sinopec is just trying to be nice to Alaskans by offering to buy our methane at top-dollar.
With new technologies already in the marketplace, methane can be easily made from anything with carbon&hydrogen in it just as cheap as shipping it from Alaska.. this is just as true in the USA as it is for China.
There's still many-TCF of gas in CookedInlet.. it's just getting harder to find with the same tired old narrow-minded technology.
http://www.globalresourcecorp.com/
http://peswiki.com/energy/Directory:Wast...
China's strength is it's Flexibility, it's a strong as Grass.
Fighting with China is like fighting with mowing your lawn.
I would have died laughing if Israel won the AGIA beauty contest..
..but they already control most of Canada's gemstones [and politicians], so what do they care?
The problem with most Alaskans is most of you haven't lived in the bush for longer than a short camping trip.. and many of the commenter's here only stay in Alaska long enough to collect the PFD.
Most phoney city slicker Alaskans are too damned lazy, fat, and stupid to build their own pipeline, and want somebody else to build it for them.
China is only interested in the SURPLUS-gas Alaska can't use for themselves, and aren't nearly as needy-greedy as Texans.
Pretty soon Alaskan's will be electing Representatives to go sit in the Parliament in Ottawa....
...that'll be about the same time PrinceRupert starts shipping Alaskan LNG to China.
.....flash/rumble
I'm glad to see Jay is so very concerned about helping make the U.S. energy independent.
GIVE A NICKEL TO HICKEL....
If Wally was Jay's age, Wally would quit politics and be back in China on his own nickel buying/borrowing a million bucks of 3" 260psi PE100 LPG-gasline..
..that's enough gasline to reach from pump-4/Galbraith to Sukakpak Mountain. That little LPG-gasline would fill an endless stream of LPG-Bobtails and Mid-sized tankers. It would pass enough LPG to pay for itself in weeks...
..this would be a solid start to making a viable rocket-line to Fairbanks.
[and would definitely get him re-elected]
This little LPG-noodle would be a temporary gasline, but would pass an amazing amount of fuel and BTU's to the Interior.
Maybe if I keep blogging about this..
..Jay will finally get the message ?????
The United States as a whole has always, and will always be energy independent... there is always an infinite amount of energy available..
just because the BigOil companies are a dismal failure and totally full of poop, it doesn't mean we're at the end of our rope for transportation, heat, and power.
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Pa...
The United States has a Mental Health Problem..
..Not An Energy Problem.
DistantThunder: Regarding an earlier post of yours, you can load up on all the plastic pipes you want at Mr. Rock 'n' Roll over on College Road.
Just a heads' up, so to speak.
"Mr. Rock 'n' Roll over on College Road"
.....ahh, Thanks for the heads'up Curmudgeon.
I can easily see all the wisecracks down at the local Union Halls when they read my posts about plastic-gaslines.
Julius Kornfeind would have been one of my good ears on this..
..now he's throwing lightning bolts down on the rest of us.
.....flash/rumble
All of our oil goes too ASIA
mi'se well send our gas too
oil companies will drill here sell to other countries minus our own then our government will buy it from them
way too go
My thought is this:
China: Has a poor human rights record, does not operate thier currency according to free market principals, is Communist at its core but uses free market principles to its advantage, and steals our military and industrial secrets.
I thought we were trying to free ourselves from our dependence on foreign oil/gas? Is there no domestic market for Alaska Gas? This will never make it through the US House and Senate.
This whole thing does not sit right with me.
Also, domestic oil and gas has become a strategic resource, so to ship it to China would not serve our domestic or international interests.
Doesn't anybody else see the double standards being applied to the export of ALASKAN "Surplus Gas"?
President Bush goes to Saudi Arabia to get "cheap oil" instead gets the cold shoulder from a King. America babbles about Venezuela and apologizes for intrusion into the air space of cocaine country. US tax dollars expands the Anchorage Airport to accommodate a China Air 747 landing every 15 minutes loaded with goodies for America, and going back to China mostly empty. The President of America even thanks the Chinese Government for assisting in the denuclearizing of North Korea.
But, when it comes to export of "surplus" Alaskan gas...America only imports, not exports least we interfere with International Conglomerates price gouging with their overseas investments. Heaven forbid, we may be cutting into the shareholders dividends of EXXON!!!
Thanks out_in_the_cold...
Sometimes I have to teach people about Political Science and Psychology just to solve an economics and energy problem.
China is a big complex country...
USA & Canada are big complex countries...
[Russia too]
Yes, there's a sizable percentage of Communists in China..
there's a sizable percentage of Communists in USA too.
[the difference is USA Communists are in denial about their behavior,psychotherapy can treat this problem (see above)]
Yes, there's a sizable percentage of Fascists in China..
""ditto"" America too.
Yes, there's a sizable percentage of Fascists masquerading as Communists in China..
""ditto"" America too.
[eg: abusive cops, and other public officials]
Socialists are just Communists who tax Capitalists for the common good of the "people" [including Fascists]
All of the above mentioned categories masquerade as Capitalists too..
thereby suffering Multiple Personality Character Disorder
[otherwise known as a$$h*les]
General Smedley Butler had this all figured out before WW2.
...and so did my great-grandfather who was executed by public firing squad [for being an anarchist] in front of his daughter(my grandma) by the early Communists who used a Winchester Model-'96 to put a bullet between his eyes. [circa: Nestor Makhno]
Politics is just a game played by the rich&powerful to manage the resources of the people [including their labor] for them(selves).
True Democracy is elusive..
An electronic-democracy using the internet gives us all hope to contribute ideas in real-time rather than voting for an A$$h*ole once every 4 or more years.
All Hail Mike Gravel-->> http://ni4d.us/
.....oh, Methane and Asia [not just China]
possible North Slope powerplant>>>>
http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2...
http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/2...
Alaska can have all the methanol it wants for portable fuel..
[this stuff ships great thru plastic pipes]
..just email Juneau, and ring their phones off the hook too.
....flash/rumble
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