Letter to the Editor
Standing up
Published Tuesday, April 22, 2008
April 19, 2008
To the editor:
I would publicly like to thank Rep. John Coghill for his stand for life. Standing for what is right in the political realm can very difficult, and he has done so in a bold but humble way.
For those of you who believe the Bible, may I give you some food for thought? The Bible refers to a pregnant woman as she was with child (not tissue or fetus) but with child. This child was made in the image of God, and even though a person may not believe in God, you cannot deny the intricate design of a human that must have a creator to be so magnificently made.
Our world has lost its value for life and therefore has taken hold of many things that are destructive to the soul and the body. The issue at hand is the throwing away of human life in the womb.
When will America realize the selfish decisions that have been made through abortion? Our America has given more rights to their animals than they give their own children.
Please read all the information you can to realize that abortion is the killing of these babies and the deep wounding of a mother!
Community Discussion
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Kim, again your disingenuous arguments are...well, less than well thought-out.
I agree that many people have lost respect for actual life. (And I don't mean blastocysts)...
When is the last time you sponsored a family in Zimbabwe, where actual children go without even the basics of what we'd consider a normal life? Pencils, clean water, sanitation...
Have you helped with the situation faced by many of those in Fairbanks who are addicted, disenfranchised, homeless, hungry?
Or is your concern for the value of life only for those who are still in the womb, whether they are 8 cells along or 8 months along?
The entire anti-choice movement is notoriously bad about caring for people once they are born, or caring for mothers or others at all. It's all about the embryo, never about those already living.
Fair enough, mamabear, but abortion law in the United States doesn't apply in Zimbabwe. I highly doubt that we can enforce our laws in other countries (as much as the RIAA and MPAA might wish we could). I agree that we really need adoption reform before we can sensibly talk about scaling back abortion, but that doesn't mean we can't start talking about it now.
I don't claim to know when "life" starts, and I don't know when a fetus gains a soul. I'd rather be safe than sorry, though. It's the same reason I abhor the death penalty. Once you make that decision, there's no going back. Far better (in my eyes, at least) to allow someone a chance to adopt a child of their own.
"I'd rather be safe than sorry, though."
That's great, Preston. It's always wonderful to hear about young women like yourself who are committed to carrying your babies to term, regardless of circumstances. Your parents did a great job.
Har har. Just because I am a male, does that mean I am automatically precluded from being allowed to have an opinion on the issue? I imagine that most people holding forth about the military in Alaska aren't retired or active-duty military, but they are affected by issues dealing with the military.
Such is the case here. Though I will never be able to bear a child due to biology, it doesn't mean that I can't hold an opinion about an issue. I merely have to be cognizant of the fact that others hold differing viewpoints.
Preston- to answer your question- the fact that you ( and I) are not going to physically give birth, should remove us from the list of people whose opinions about birthing rights matter. The whole abortion issue is concerning a WOMANS right to decide if having a child is best for HER, not the human race or some self sanctifying man. This is an important issue, but in my opinion, if you are a man holding a sign in front of an abortion clinic you really need to get back to your job and start paying for the children you have, even if it is only YOU.
JB - from a woman's point of view - AMEN! Thank you for realizing that it's my body, my decision, and in the end I'm the one that is judged on my choices (and that's what it should be a choice!)
how about choosing to not have sex in the first place instead of killing the potential human being that comes out of process. that goes for double the men. it's funny, in alaska to drive a car you have to learn the rules of the road, pass a test. then you have to pay for a license and insurance. then you can drive a car, as long as you haven't been drinking. as soon as you hit an age (17 in alaska i think) it is assumed you have a birthright to have sex. no test is required, no insurance needs to be purchased. abortion is just another way to avoid the consequences of ill thought out behavior. tell me that partial birth abortion isn't just outright murder.
If "partial birth abortion isn't just outright murder" what do you think a miscarriage is? Do you think it is involuntary manslaughter?
YouMustBConfused
PS I cant take credit for that. iIt appeared here in the DNM back in probably the late 70's...it was written by a well known Republican in town.
I am not pro abortion. I am however pro choice. It is all about economics and not morals in this arena..ONLY low income women do not have either, the economic choice of which clinic to go to, or the financial ability to go elsewhere for quality medical care. Higher income people have the economic power of choice.
Ask any woman who has had a miscarriage if that "fetus" was a baby and was alive. What a person does is not my business, your business or Uncle sams business unless it deprives someone else of life, liberty or property. Make no mistake, when a baby is aborted, a life has been taken. But yet, its is your and my decision, that is where the liberty comes into play.
So for me personaly, not for abortion. But you do as you like, its none of my business. You also wont find me outside an abortion clinic protesting. I cant do that, I have a job, and a grown up fetus's mouth to feed.
Ahhh but there is the rub, was the miscarriage the womans fault? If not, then did the living fetus (that dies from a miscarriage) take its own life, suicide, free-will, Gods will? Can the fetus survive on its own? No? Again it comes back full circle to the woman, her body and her decision.
A few years ago I had no choice to have an abortion due to my health problems. It was the worst feeling ever, my heart still aches with pain over it. The decision I made was because I had my children and they needed me, I wanted that baby so badly and to this day I still cry thinking of it. You think its easy for anyone to make that kind of choice? It is not, I seen woman in the clinic who were alone and scared and with no means of support. The choice they made was their personal choice and no-one should judge any person for the choice they choose. I did not judge them but I did judge myself. I know abortion is a very strong issue and will be for years to come.
I find it amazing that so many anti-choice zealots spend their time worrying about my uterus when babies and children, mothers and fathers, the elderly, those with learning disabilities and so many more BORN people suffer without the basics.
We live in a world where children live in garbage dumps, are chained to workstations to make your WalMart crap, starve, are beaten, sexually abused and neglected.
When a mother gives birth to a baby she knows would be better served by having never been born, that situation is more important and more worthy of our time and effort than worrying about those who choose not to give birth.
Those of us who are pro-choice don't advocate for abortion...just abortion RIGHTS.
Those who are anti-choice have long sought other ways of controlling womens' reproductive choices. Their agenda includes outlawing many methods of birth control (the pill and the IUD especially).
I have a big family. We have many mouths to feed and minds to nurture.
But I had my family by choice.
Well said mamabear.
I agree, for the most part, YMBC.
However, as the father, what if the mother starts smoking? Or starts on crack? Drinks a lot? The baby is born, but with fetal alcohol syndrome. As the father, you are now responsible, either directly, financialy or both for that child. You share in the medical costs and emotional burden. You pay child support.
So yes, I think you should have some say, but the fact is you dont.
You must be confused....There is one simple and basic difference between Miscarriage and Abortion. Miscarriage is NOT a choice, Abortion IS a choice. No matter how it happens, the loss is horrible to all involved, most especially to the mother.
I have been blessed with two full term healthy children. My sister has 3 heathy children and had 2 miscarriages. The two lost hurt her immensley and were followed with a funeral. I have a dear friend that had her baby die in womb at 7 months but did not naturally void her body, she had to have an abortion. The workers at the clinic were awful to her and she is horribly scarred bacause of what happened. Both women lost children and are equally devistated even though the method of loss was different, the end result was the same, they buried a baby.
What if she eats fatty foods, junk food and watches TV all day? Yup, more men need to think this through before they par-take in the fun side of things. At the end of the day, the man does not carry the burden, it is the women.
More men AND women need to think it through before they par-take.
Sometimes,
BLANK happens when you party naked.
JB says -- "the fact that you ( and I) are not going to physically give birth, should remove us from the list of people whose opinions about birthing rights matter"
JB, in theory, you are correct. However, in practice, those religious fundamentalist men who go to weekly brain washing sessions, stand on their decrepit ancient text, and talk to their invisible friend are by far the most vocal in this argument. If those of us that exercise our reason don't stand up for women's rights, they will most surely be trampled.
polarmark says -- "as soon as you hit an age (17 in alaska i think) it is assumed you have a birthright to have sex. no test is required, no insurance needs to be purchased."
I think you are on to something here. I think that we should require a test in order to be able to be a parent. I would start with some basic science questions like:
1) How old is this planet that we live on?
2) Describe natural selection and how this leads to evolution.
3) Do you talk to invisible people or have invisible friends?
4) Do you beleive that witches, wizards, demons, or devils exist?
5) Do you beleive that people can come back from the dead?
To me, these questions would quickly separate those that should be reproducing from those that should not.
[Ok, ok, I don't REALLY think we should have a test - that would be un-american. About as un-american as telling our women what they can or cannot do to a parasitic growth feeding off of their bodies.]
Reader1, do you really think accidents don't happen?
Most people think of abortion as something only young, single, promiscuous women utilize.
The reality is that most abortions are had by adult women, and (IIRC my stats correctly) over half of them are married.
Nobody *wants* abortion, but it's a choice that needs to be available. (Regardless of what FreeRepublic and Rush Limbaugh say, women are NOT getting pregnant just so they can go through the pain of abortion).
If you still think an 8-cell blastocyst deserves the same rights as a newborn baby, then we have nothing further to discuss.
(And it goes without saying that, since you don't have a uterus, your opinion on the subject really, truly, doesn't matter to me).
If you're anti-choice, don't have sex with anyone who might EVER, ever, not want to be pregnant.
You all talk about the rights of the mother. What about the rights of the child that is being slaughtered. As for AKmom. My heart goes out to you and many others who have had an abortion. As for mamabear, I do support kids in foreign countries along with what I say here about the unborn.
Back when I was a young'un, they told me down at the evangelical loony-bin that kids who died in the womb got a free ticket to heaven. That's God's will I was told. So considering that, shouldn't Christians be all in favor of abortion? I mean, it's the most cost-effective way of saving souls.
Given how many of us are going to hell, it seems a safe bet that if those zygotes didn't get aborted, a fair percentage of them would be headed in the same direction I am.
Meanwhile, I'll support Coghill and the rest of the self-proclaimed "pro-lifers" when they start caring about babies once their born as much as they do before hand. But I'm not holding my breath in anticipation. I've been around long enough to know better. To paraphrase Dylan, "I used to be among the crowd they're in with."
I have made some bad choices and regret them to this day.
There is no reason to have an abortion. Call Fairbanks Counseling and Adoption, they have a list a mile long of people wanting to have children that can't have their own. A relative of mine specifically adopts special needs children, because that is what she believes God wants her to do. So don't say that people don't care, mamabear. Go to church in Fairbanks and you will meet alot of people who do care.
News Reader..........Parasitic Growth? I don't think so. I love my adopted children no less then my own flesh and blood.
Mamabear, go read my first post.
And so long as the state is going to ORDER a man to pay child support to the MOTHER, for her to spend, save, take a vacation, or whatever, as she sees fit, then I would argue that a man should have some say.
2cold4me says -- "Go to church in Fairbanks and you will meet alot of people who do care."
Yep, a lot of people who care what you do to your own body. A lot of people who will tell you, in no uncertain terms, what their invisible friend says that you can or can not do to your own body.
Yep, they care a lot, about telling people what to do, that is...
BTW, according to webster, "parasite:something that resembles a biological parasite in dependence on something else for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return"
Until the fetus is self viable, it is, by definition, a parasitic growth. [Yes, I know, that's harsh. But not as harsh as screaming "MURDERER" in the face of those women out there who have, for whatever reason, had an abortion.]
Coghill is a good man.
I don't agree with all of his politics, but that's...politics.
He is straight and narrow, very square-VERY rare in politics these days.
I would vote him in for Governor.
Right to life is right.
No need for selfish abortions which hurt mothers, would-be-fathers, and the unborn child.
nuff said.
I agree religion is one of our worst enemies! Money hugging and finger pointing! But true Christians are not. But true Christians or not does not make us sinless.
To Mr. Curmudgeon, there would be no greater joy to pass these little ones onto heaven but that God gave the life and it is not up to us to take it.
Newsreader I feel sorry for your children whom you call a parasite in the womb. These babies are helpless but we are designed as parents to take care and nurture them! It is murder and I will continue saying what it is but I will also continue to support and comfort those who have had one because NO one is without sin! At least we believe that we have an awesome creator that designs us instead of thinking that we came from a blob and our kin were monkeys.
For those of you who think men should not have a say in what happens. PLEASE go to the courthouse immediately and make your statements at all Child support cases. "Her body, her uterus, blah, blah, blah" Do I understand your arguement correctly? If a woman wants to kill her baby it is only her decision but if she chooses to keep the baby and the bills come do "it takes two". That is the most sexist thing I've ever heard.
Now for all you who are ANTI. How many handicaped, crack addicted, or rape product babies have you addopted? If any my hat is off to you. If you haven't adopted any then you should really rethink your stance. Have you ever stopped someone at the doors of the clinic durring your protest and helped pay for the upbringing of the child? Put your money where your mouth is, not just into bumper stickers and picket signs.
we have put our money were are mouth is AKLOWN and many have adopted and foster cared for these families. We have done many supporting things to help these mothers and standing at the door of an abortion clinic is illegal.
AKLOWN, those are the words I was looking for.
stand4something says -- "It is murder and I will continue saying what it is but I will also continue to support and comfort those who have had one because NO one is without sin!"
Wow! You must live a very conflicted life, supporting murder like that. Have you examined your belief system lately? You might want to if you choose to support and comfort murderers.
stand4something says -- "At least we believe that we have an awesome creator that designs us instead of thinking that we came from a blob and our kin were monkeys."
I just love the way you guys are so proud of your ignorant retardation of science, society, and mankind in general. No big surprise though, it has been going on for a few thousand years now.
re read slowly and carefully "if you have, my hat is off to you". My statement goes out to those who feel the need to cram thier opinion down my throat but have done nothing for "the babies they save".
Be cautious of the "we" in your statement, you can't speak collectively for all protesters and activists. If you stick by that statement it could lead people to beleive "WE" bomb abortion clinics.
Readers,
Just a reminder to keep it friendly. This is a very divisive topic and tempers can flare.
Thanks.
I know most people may not agree with me, but This is MY opinion and I am putting religious opinion aside.
If you are old enough and mature enough to lay down and make it- then you should be old enough and mature enough to stand up and take it!
If by chance that you were not a willing party, then you should have that right to make a choice of how you can and will physically and mentally deal with it.
I know that there are alot of variables but those should be delt with on a case by case basis with your doctor.
As for men having a right and/or a say in the matter. I honestly feel that as a woman if you made the choice to lay with that man, and as a result are now with child. He has just as much say as you do! You might be carring that child, but you know the possibilities, the danger involved. The only time the man should not have a say is when/if the womans life is in danger.
I am sorry but too many take this to lightly.
Newsreader you have misread what I meant. I DO NOT support murders but I will comfort those who know they have done wrong and have are in turmoil over it!
AKLown thanks for refraising my "we" because I do believe there are many pro-life people are all talk and no action. I do NOT agree with the anti-abortionist that bomb these clinics because two wrongs don't make a right. Thanks again for your clarification.
Life, Liberty, and Freedom.
What about the life of a person who can't speak up for themselves?
I have adopted a cocaine baby. He is a great kid.
Many of you would not have lost a moments sleep if he had been aborted. What a thought, I cant imagine life without him.
I have not bombed abortion clinics.
The waiting list to adopt at Fairbanks Counseling and Adoption is a mile long. Took my wife and I years. If you had an abortion, I don't think I am better than you, but don't tell me there is nothing wrong with it.
Stop lumping everyone in one pile
stand4something says -- "there would be no greater joy to pass these little ones onto heaven but that God gave the life and it is not up to us to take it."
Sorry, your invisible friend doesn't have anything to do with the formation of a zygote. You see, in the modern world, we have this thing called *SCIENCE*. Through the use of science, we have been able to determine that a zygote is formed when a man's sperm is combined with a woman's ovum. It is a naturally occurring event. It requires no creator, no mystical being, no "magic" to occur. It just happens - naturally.