Controversy escalates over ‘Day of Silence'
Published Tuesday, April 15, 2008
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Stumble It!Students from at least one Fairbanks high school, West Valley, will be participating in the “Day of Silence,” an event sponsored by the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network. The national event is scheduled for April 25.
The organization’s Web site states the purpose of Day of Silence “is to bring attention to anti-LGBT name-calling, bullying and harassment and effective responses.”
But an e-newsletter sent out by The Alaska Family Council states the organization has received concerns that Day of Silence is portraying people who oppose homosexuality as “hate-filled bigots.” The Family Council recommends keeping children out of schools that day if the school has confirmed they are allowing a Day of Silence to happen on their campus.
The Family Council also advocates an alternative event, “Day of Truth” sponsored by the Alliance Defense Fund. According to the Day of Truth Web site, the event “was established to counter the promotion of the homosexual agenda and express an opposing viewpoint from a Christian perspective.” Day of Truth is scheduled for April 28.
Wayne Gerke, assistant superintendent of secondary schools at the Fairbanks North Star Borough School District, said he has received more inquires than complaints about the Day of Silence. The event is not an official school activity and is not sponsored by the school district but is a way for students to express their freedom of speech. Gerke said he believes the purpose of Day of Silence is not to promote homosexuality but rather to stand against bullying.
Gerke said school staff do not participate and students do not hand out any fliers or literature. The event does not disrupt the school environment, though Gerke admits some people might see being silent in class as a disruption.
Gerke was unable to say if a Day of Truth would be allowed in the schools because he is unfamiliar with the event, but in general he says events that allow students to exercise their freedom of speech without disrupting the school environment will be tolerated.
Community Discussion
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Forgive me for upset apple carts, however I found a PBS presentation of Walt Whitman this past evening rather bold (more than I wanted to see) for myself in that it presumed to show graphic male to male kissing without any warning whatsoever.
Hey kids, family viewing on PBS and a great American poet, pants down and all!
Supposedly alleviated by intoning Whitman's musings in a very alluring natural scene, it nonetheless made me change the channel.
One more "in your face" to those who do not share the homosexual agenda and are not likely to be "converted" by such tactics.
I'm not a bigot, nor do I wish to change you, yet I find tactics such as this both desperate and abhorrent.
In the laws of nature you remain abberant, I didn't write the laws and don't necessarily think you're going to hell any faster than the rest of us, but your agenda does not necessarily include nor breed sympathy from all.
Men kissing in a Whitman documentary? What's next, women kissing in a Gertrude Stein documentary? What is this world coming to?
funny babylon......
although...personally - I prefer, and would rather watch, the women kissing :)
enjoy the sun all - time to hope for breakup once again
Let's all just run butt naked in the schools and streets! Let it all hang out!
Sodom and Gamorrah was destroyed because of the people going against God's Natural Laws. Do what ever flips your trigger but there is no escaping the End Judgement. "THINK ABOUT IT"
If we woulda had a day of silence for break-up about three weeks ago maybe we coulda avoided this return to winter.
All you hunters today is the day to get your bear bait out!
Where do think our Modern Day Word "SODOMY" comes from? "YOU DECIDE"
You better not run around letting it all hang out...or God will turn you to a pillar of salt....I'm sure of it!!!!
After all, where do you think salt came from....
"YOU DECIDE"
AS we slowly watch our country fall apart because of our own immorality there are still many ignorant people.
I guarantee you, when you are at your weakest lying on your deathbed alone, you will pray to God.
Just remember, the unforgivable sin - denying Him!
I can't understand those that would rather believe they are related to the monkeys. That really shows ignorance!
God Bless!
Perhaps it was God's intention to have us slowly evolve from the ape to what we are. So maybe everyone is right.
God Bless ALL!
I can't believe there is such an uproar about this. They did the same thing when I was in high school, and there was no impact on the normal school day. The only difference was that there were maybe 15-20 kids that weren't talking, and they were mostly the kids that didn't talk much anyway.
no sherry, sigh... it isn't ignorance, it is an ego as large as satans.
Why have I never seen a day of silence for the bullying of the unpopular students such as goths or nerds or whatever terms they use today. This day is specific to gays and lebians there is a lot more bullying to other groups then to them.
Bikebuilder- got the stand set, time to bait now! Its just a standard thing if you know WHERE I mean ;)
This argument has been old for years. I think Fairbanks may be hanging on to it more than other communities around the country.
I am just thankful that high school kids don’t care what we adults think and will decide what to do on their own. There is something to be said for their defiant nature.
(Did somebody already say that? I was busy with another article.)
-->sherry29, because I am feeling full of good will today, I will leave alone your amusing use of “ignorant people" and "related to the monkeys." ---in the above. You’re welcome.
I'm perplexed.
"Sodom and Gamorrah was destroyed because of the people going against God's Natural Laws."
I understand what sodomy is but what about gamorrahphy?
Is it something to do with bears and breakup?
oh please, please don't let this post get as boring as the other ones.
who are you people anyway? college professors? working mothers? the old guys who hang out at fred meyer's deli? i have to admit that as i go through town, i try to put faces to these names i see. the computer and internet have made everyone so impersonal. i won't judge you til i see you. kidding. ;)
I think this is great, and the West Valley kids should feel proud that they're participating despite all the bigots complaining about it. LGBT kids have it rough; there's a lot of hatred toward gays in the schools and the community. I don't know why anyone would think someone can "choose" to be gay. Why the hell would you choose to be hated by such a large proportion of your community?
I can only comment on my own experiences. 1993 Joy Elementry Fairbanks Alaska -For one entire week when my son was in Kindergarden, he insisted on wearing the same shirt for over an entire week. After I took it away from him, he burst into tears because it was the only green shirt he owned and he didn't want to be pinched any more... it was then that I realized that I forgot to tell his teacher that we don't celebrate St. Patricks Day.
Long story short, a strong worded letter to the principal lead to a confrontation with his teacher who stood infront of me with her arms crossed and she announced very plainly that she did not approve of my religion.
So, my bottom line, State sponsored, public school should be for education of facts, reading, mathematics, science, and history. Leave the religion, (I class "gay" "straight" or "whatever" under that religion umbrella), at home!
-RK
Funny, Joe. I practice grammo(a)rragraphy--- wonder if it's related.
I would be more comfortable with a DOS that represented all bigotry, and stood up for all who suffer oppression rather than focusing on sexuality explicitly - for a fuller explanation of my views, see the DOS letter to the editor (I'm too lazy to repeat it here).
However, I will say this to Sherry and Flatlander: I'd love to see you both come out of the Old Testament and into the New. With Jesus came a new Covenant, and I'm pretty sure the love He teaches doesn't include beating people about the head and shoulders with the Bible. And then, when you follow such a beating with "God Bless" (even if it were sincere) nothing is accomplished other than a cementing of a less-than-loving-feeling toward you, and by proxy, God.
I see the rabid fundies came out while I slept...
KSFLATLANDER -- Those cities were destroyed by volcanic eruptions, I believe. Maybe you've heard of these thing called vocanoes? In man's infancy, they were believed to be some kind of wrath of God. In the modern, grown up version of man, we understand that volcanoes are naturally occurring and do not REQUIRE the existence of a God to operate. Oh, wait, you'd have to put down your bible to understand that naturally occurring disasters occur - NATURALLY.
sherry29 -- I can guarantee you that you'll be FAR more likely to pray to Allah on your deathbed than I will EVER be to pray to your invisible friend.
polarmark -- Our science is based upon centuries of painstaking, careful effort through the scientific method. Thousands of great human minds contributed to the body of knowledge that we have amassed. Your "proof" is contained in a few pages at the beginning of what could possibly be one of the oldest fairytales ever written. So, who, exactly has a giant ego? The man who stands on a few pages of an ancient text, or the society that has painstakingly examined millions of facts and interpretted them through the use of our intellect?
Oh, and, by the way, satan doesn't exist bucko. Its all made up. If I'm lying, my GOD strike me dead right here, right now...
... Umm... Still Alive...
All - I've got some bad news for ya. God is manmade. That ridiculous book that you read was written by pre-historic men with IQs around that of our current grade schoolers. THERE IS NO GOD. Therefore, no "End Judgment" (I mean, how childish can you be to need the ultimate blackmail in order to keep you good little children?)
... Ummm... Still Alive... Come on God, STRIKE ME!!!
Now, can you stop using your invisible friend to justify your hatred, violence, and murder of those that are different than you?
Thanks, the rest of humanity would appreciate it.
[And, I'm STILL ALIVE]
gamorrahphy -- Good one, I have not laughed like that in while...
Dana --
I hate to break the news to you, but your beloved New Testament also calls for death to homosexuals -- Romans 1:24-32. So, hopefully we can now agree to throw that one out too?
Thanks.
And, by the way, I'm still alive...
Well said newsreader. There is too much hate spread with use of the Bible. Just look at the comments above to find proof of this. I am straight and support people's freedom of choice.
Newsreader,
I think prehistoric man was actually smarter than your average second grader educated in a public school.
This protest, as I understand it, is against bullying. The bullies, from the looks of the postings here, are in the pulpit.
(Get it? Bully Pulpit?)
OK, not one of my best.
then I guess I am a hate-filled bigot. If my baby was in school, I'd keep her home that day. DISGUSTING! I can see colleges doing this sort of thing, but it does not belong where there are minors!
honeyhi --
Can you please explain to me what is disgusting about contemplating the FACT that a minority group in our society is daily plagued with ridicule, violence, and murder?
I'm trying to understand here...
[By the way - this takes place in high school. So, I agree with you, your "baby" shouldn't be there. Now, your teenager, that's another story.]
Mark Twain once said that it's better to keep silent and have people think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. I think it's sad that a lot of people out there who obviously are egotistical/have no life/bored/etc. will actually try and scream/preach/lecture/pass judgment on the lives of others. Seriously, people, when a group of -high school- kids simply wanting to be silent for a cause makes some adults start foaming at the mouth and yelling OMG THEY MUST BE IMMORAL, CONVERT OR DIE, CONVERT OR DIE! then it's time to get another life. By the way, who exactly gave you guys the authority to judge the rest of us?
If you're using the Bible as your literal and moral code to judge others by picking and choosing what passages in it you want as "righteous proof" against the masses, then I'm assuming you agree with these Bible verses as well:
Exodus 21:7 says it's okay for fathers to sell their daughters.
Deuteronomy 14:8 says we're not allowed to eat pork
Deuteronomy 21:18 allows you to take your stubborn and rebellious kid to the city leaders and have him stoned to death
So please, don't even get on the soap box with your Bible proclaiming what's right and what's wrong, just be happy with figuring out your own life.
Do kids even know what a gay and lesbian is? Do they really care? Or is it just adults that tell them what they think it is?
Next thing you know we will have videos to educate them. Hand out the condoms! and anything else needed!
Check:
Dana and i_play_outside
RK, I can relate to that kind of experience. Could tell you some of my own...
Joe Murphy...that was great!
Has anyone bothered to ask what their kids think about all this? This is happening in a high school, so they should be at an age capable of objective thought. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of them could care less and won't notice that "day of silence" anyway. Those that do care and support it, would do so regardless of what any of you say or do. So busy worrying about such inconsequential crap.
I'll also throw this log on the fire for those of you worried about what this day of silence might do: Maybe if you'd spent a little more time with your kids, reinforcing values, teaching them right and wrong instead of buying them another xbox and a cell phone and expecting a school to teach them everything, you wouldn't have to worry so much. I trust my kid to make the right choices for himself because I know I helped put a good head on his shoulders.
Newsreader, I'd like you to meet shadowmatrix... shadowmatrix, this is newsreader.... So nice when we can find a friend.
But we can't have a day of silence for the nation right? For all our servemen and women putting their lives on the line everyday. We can't pledge to the nation but we can gays and lesbians.
The country is moving alright.. straight to Clinton and Obama! Good job!
Oh yeah, and _Curmudgeon
um, moose, I don't think you get the idea behind the DOS.
Moose...
We can pledge to the nation all you want. We do it all the time. We don't, however, pledge to God.
You do realize the the "under God" was added in the fifties as a result of McCarthyism, right? You do realize that the pledge of allegiance was never meant to say anything about God, right?
BTW - we do have a day for our service men and woman, I believe it is called Memorial Day? Oh yeah, and Veteran's Day? And the 4th of July? And... (I'm sure there's probably a few more as well).
Isn't it great how none of us have anything worthwhile to do, and can therefore devote our days to this pointless debate where no one ever convinces anyone to switch sides?
I mean, what kind of loser would ever bother to post messages here in the first place?
(Oh, uh, wait a minute...)
Curmudgeon ---
That's life in modern times "AS we slowly watch our country fall apart." Isn't it grand?
Here's a quote I think (somewhat) applies here...
"The Earth is degenerating these days. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching."
- Assyrian Stone Tablet, c.2800BC
Why don't they have the day of silence for all teenage children who have at once felt picked on by another student or of society. The picking on people who are diffrent from you for any reason is not a good choice.
newsreader - While I normally agree with you on many things, and appreciate your intelligence and humor, I really wish that you would stop beating me about the head and shoulders with my beliefs. You don't like it. I get it. It's more effective to correct those that abuse the religion, not those that try to use their beliefs to better their world. Honestly. I never said that God would strike you, or anyone else, dead, over anything, but you insist on taking the worst of the population and attributing their dangerous misinterpretations onto the rest of us. This, my friend, is blind hatred and ridicule for blind hatred's sake.
I chose the dichotomy between the Old and New Testaments to appeal to the Bible-thumping on this thread for a reason - it's what they "get". Beyond that, the lesson of the New Testament was Jesus' love for all - that is the lesson. I obviously have refused to align myself with those that use my religion as a position for hatred. The Bible is the word of God, filtered through man, edited by man and interpreted by man - there's bound to be something lost in the translation. As I have said before, many edicts in the Bible were put there for health reasons, and the worst "death" imaginable was afterlife with no God. I'm not going to debate the passage with you. I don't agree with killing folk because they sin (not only would Jesus disagree, but I'd have been dead a long time ago)). I chalk it up as being much less important that the overall teaching of love and respect for others.
You use the beliefs of others (in this area) as a way to ridicule them, which I see as very similar to their use of their religion to hate - I would classify neither as right. I'll suggest the same thing to you that I suggested to them: beating people with your view (or theirs) is not going to change anyone's mind. All it's going to do is make the other side disregard the one that is being professed.
I know this isn't going to change your opinion or your presentation; I think you've made that clear. But, behaving in a manner that is hateful or bigoted is WRONG no matter what excuse is used and no matter what theoretical standpoint it comes from.
Dana - See, the problem with the phrase "It's more effective to correct those that abuse the religion, not those that try to use their beliefs to better their world." is everyone has their own view of "bettering the world". The KKK seem to think killing Jewish people is bettering the world per the Bible because they supposedly murdered Jesus (of course, let's forget for a moment the obvious flaw that Jesus -was- Jewish himself). The Inquisition was about "good" religious people torturing and killing "bad" (aka anyone who had a different religious opinion) people in order to better the world per the guidance of passages in the Bible. Hitler himself took passages from the Bible, twisted them to his own interpretation, and used that to justify murdering six million people.
Religion, when used together with interpretations of the Bible, can be the most powerful and dangerous thing people can have in this society. Never has more hatred, bigotry, and murder come from people using those two things to "better the world".
Dana --
If you'd like to think of me as an "anti-hatred anti-murder-inciting" bigot, then go ahead. That's all that I've advocated - getting rid of a belief system that continues to promote the dogma of "kill gays".
By the way, my first post was not aimed at you in any way. My second, where I pointed out to you that the New Testament isn't all that much better, was.
I was tying to show you that your beliefs, albeit very moderate, still continue to show hypocrisy.
If the bible is the Word of God, then it is infallible. If it is instead, filtered, edited, and interpreted through man, then it is not infallible. Thus we have a contradiction.
If the bible is the Word of God, then you must take all of it as truth, because it is the Word of God. If you do not, but instead filter it (as you do), then you are hypocritical again - you are taking your own version of the Word of God, not the ACTUAL word of God. Once again, showing a contradiction in your belief system.
I do what I do on here not for "blind hatred's sake", but to show the non-believers, the partial believers, and the "on the fencers" the hypocrisy, bigotry, and downright EVIL that CAN result from following this belief system.
I do not expect to change anyone's mind who is firmly "on the other side", they are already beyond my help. However, if I can show others how ridiculous these beliefs are, then I am doing good for society and our community.
Your saying that people should "come out of the Old Testament and into the New" makes the judgment that the old testament is bad and the new testament is better. My judgment says that both are bad and should be rejected. I say this because BOTH advocate death to gays, something that is NOT acceptable, is not LOVING, and in no way should be associated with "Jesus", yet it is - it is in the WORD OF GOD.
To me, that makes God bad.
newsreader- how are your views towards religion any different than my views toward gays? You are spewing hatred and disgust. You are promoting negativism and hatred and this makes you a hypocrite. Your people don't want to be "converted" by the religious fanatics and their agenda, but what makes you think that the religious folks want to hear your crap either? What do you care what I believe?
See what happens when you place faith in something other than science?
Instead of taking the opportunity to say "Regardless of who you are or how you are different than us, we love you and believe that you should not be subjected to bullying" this small group of "morality champions" has decided to make it about something it is NOT. The Day of Silence is NOT about making people gay, or endorsing "the" homosexual lifestyle or "the" homosexual agenda, it is about recognizing that bullying someone is wrong. It's not about forcing a student who hates The Gays to become best friends with a gay kid. It's not about forcing students to accept that homosexuality is a "valid lifestyle" (whatever that means). It's about saying if you don't like it FINE just don't abuse someone else because you don't like something about them...that happens to sound a lot like JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED to me now that I think about it...
As for the always-ridiculous "why aren't they having this benefit/action for ________ group" argument: Who's stopping you? Go for it. Just because there aren't organized "Don't Bully Your Local Goth" events doesn't mean there can't be - Day of Silence doesn't automatically and immediately preclude you from organizing your very own Day of Silence to combat _____________.
It makes me sad that this small group of people doesn't take this opportunity to build a bridge of understanding and instead twists it to make it fit THEIR agenda...which is to keep people a'feared'o turnin' queer.
This does not surprize me, schools today seem to be pre-occupied with social problems rather than with the three "R's". Go figure?
The test results, which were released yesterday, present a damning assessment of American students in their last year of mandatory schooling: In both subjects, their scores ranked close to last among the 21 nations that participated. And their showing was much worse than the marks that American elementary and middle school students have earned on similar international exams in the past two years.
I am so proud of today's youth for not falling for this crap organized religion forces upon us. I applaude your tenacity for standing up for HUMAN rights, for treating each other with kindness, and love. I am ashamed of those of you who belittle, hate and judge in the name of God. I do believe Christ died for me, I Pray every day to end the suffering that so many face. I do choose to believe there is a greater being who put me here and watches over us. I am so thankful my children were raised to respect all and judge no one. I cannot wait for judgement day. I have no fear, I harbor no hate in my soul. I will be in a loving place with my savior. On this Earth, I simply love.....who I love is not your concern or your business. If you would like to volunteer to pay my mortgage, my GVEA bill and pay to raise my children then I may decide to care what you think. Until then, stay out of my bedroom and I will stay out of yours. There are churches out there for those of you who wish to give praise without all the ignorance that goes along with organized religion. My only hope, and I may have to answer for it, is that those of us who do not judge, who know the only one whose opinion counts is God, will get to sit in on "YOUR" judgement day and witness you having to answer for the cruel, hateful, nasty lies you tell and hold in your heart in the name of such a loving, forgiving God. I believe he will forgive you. Thats his way.
Man, it is so nice to be on the outside looking in today. My (always sage) advice: Police yourselves. Get yourselves to a point where you can agree to disagree and/or find some mutual respect. I know you can do it! I have 'faith'.
well, Hello Ken.
sorry... I know how some of you may not like the word "police"--- um, "check yourselves"...
wthaidiak says - "newsreader- how are your views towards religion any different than my views toward gays?"
Really simple explanation there and a REALLY big difference.
You hate someone for who they are (how God made them?).
I "hate" someone for choosing to endorse and perpetuate institutionalized hatred, bigotry, violence, and murder.
When was the last time you heard of a Christian being killed in a hate crime by an Atheist? (NEVER)
Now, when was last time you heard of a gay being killed by a Christian in a hate crime? (Often)
I knew by mentioning Sodom and Gomorrah, that it would bring out the Boo-Birds. It's always been my observation that those who scream the loudest are the very ones that are most afraid. So this is directed towards newsreader and shadowmatrix. Cool name, shadowmatrix, but it still don't make you cool or right. It seems to me that you two know quite alot about the bible, since you're the ones quoting so much of it. I wish I could be as cool as newsreader saying things like, "My" God strike me dead, and I'm not dead yet!! Yes you said my God. I know you meant may God.
I'm not a bible thumper or any of the things you think I am. I have however studied the bible with translation tools. You just can't get the true meaning of the KJV without using translation.
So, have your fun. You've not insulted me or made me angry in any way. By the way, God winks at stupidity. Later
Kansas-
I know I'm not afraid (I also know I'm not screaming loudly, but there sure have been times....) Sometimes screaming loudly comes, simply, out of frustration.
KSFLATLANDER...you and your winky god are not funny. YouMustBConfused
newsreader- I do not hate anyone, nor do I condone it. I do not have any verifiable facts that a true christian has killed a gay person in the name of christianity. As a "newsreader" I am sure that you will provide that data. I can provide verifiable facts that christians have been killed because of their beliefs. I realize that is not exactly what you said, but the point is still the same.
You admit to hating a certain group of people, therefore we cannot debate.
Interesting to note that the one who is supposedly NOT a bible thumper was the first one to use references to the scripture in this thread - references that imply that gays should be doomed to death. [Which shows us EXACTLY why we need this day of silence - your beliefs are causing this problem.]
I quote the bible to show how incredibly fallible and asinine this supposed 'sacred word of God' really is. Besides, it seems to be the only thing that some people believe, i.e. speaking in your language.
And, you are right, I am scared. Scared of the religious fundamentalist movement that I see in America today. Scared of my president stating that Atheist shouldn't be considered citizens. Scared that the fundamentalists have twisted our pledge of allegiance to advocate their beliefs.
To tie it back in with this article, I'm scared that my daughter will turn out to be gay and your children will ridicule, beat, or murder her. Or, you could even say that I'm scared that she will be straight but will be influenced and swayed by the little bigots that fundamentalist Christianity creates on a daily basis.
Gays don't have a monoply on being doomed to death, we all fall in that catigory. All of us will die, that's a fact. The secound death is the one I'm most concerned with.
wthaidiak says "You admit to hating a certain group of people, therefore we cannot debate."
Don't you hate murderers? How about rapists? How about child molesters? How about individuals who promote hatred, racial violence, and homophobia?
Now, how about groups of people who institutionalize the promotion of hatred, violence, and murder?
Come on, you hated the Nazis, right? [Who, by the way, said that God was on their side and regularly used the scriptures to back up their agenda.]
You must hate the Taliban, at least? [Who, by the way, are probably the worst band of religious fundamentalist alive today.]
I LOVE FREEDOM AND THE AMERICAN IDEALS OF EQUALITY, LIBERTY, AND JUSTICE. I HATE THOSE WHO (I FEEL) OPPOSE FREEDOM AND THESE AMERICAN IDEALS.
And, I will never apologize for doing so, nor feel silly for these beliefs.
I have read everyones comments and no one has offered anything else concrete to work off of. So here is my input and we shall see what will come of it.
I am not for gay rights nor am I against their right to exist but the matter at hand is "does one single group of people get to tell the rest of the society what to do". I say No, so lets do what the Alaskan Family Council said but boycott the school for three days. Keep your kids home for three days and if you can get enough students to boycott you will shutdown that school for three days and have a voice your stand against this movement.
Can you elaborate on how a voluntary activity organized by students is "one single group of people telling the rest of society what to do"? Here's a "concrete" idea. If you have a problem with the Day of Silence, don't participate. If you have a problem with your child, a student, participating in the Day of Silence, forbid them from doing so. If you wish to participate in the Day of Silence, do so.
The students do nothing in a school with out the approval of the administration. Therefore the administration has given their blessing on this activity, as far as a single group in society goes a school is a reflection of our society. The good and the bad. This is how many of the decision the govenment has made all stem from "he who speaks the loudest wins" Sort of like these blogs.
With that said, I still contend if the students and or parents have a problem with the "DOS"; boycott the school and show your displeasure with the decision that was made and things will change. Voice your concern as the people are voicing there their support for "DOS". But make sure the protest is heard in a strong correct manner. Walk out in numbers.
Did I say anything about pledging to God? Who cares what he/she/it thinks?
Unless he/she/it is a gay or lesbian. and even then does it matter?
HEAVEN FORBID THAT KIDS STOP AND THINK A MINUTE ABOUT HOW THEIR INSENSITIVE REMARKS MAY HURT OTHER PEOPLE!! THEY'RE JUST KIDS, THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT DEVELOPING LIFE SKILLS OR COMPASSION FOR OTHER HUMAN BEINGS!
... sarcasm, but it hurts my brain to think like that for too long. Why would you keep your kid out of school because a few kids aren't going to be talking? Are you serious? Because a few kids object to either themselves or other students being called hurtful names? You're objecting to their objection? Does that mean you support kids being little stuck-up a$$holes to each other? Or even unintentionally? Do you let your kids call black people the n-word? As long as they don't "really" mean it?
Hi.
Penrose/Carter diagrams. Those I understand.
What I don't understand is how some mythical man that lived 2000 years ago walked on water and grew fish out of bread. I thought I'd refrain from responding to this article, mainly because I don't understand the buzzword culture. "Living God" "Give Praise", "Praise and worship teams", "The Coming", and "Spirit Wars"
*sigh* Apathetic, really.
Anyhow, Hi.
"You're objecting to their objection?" Perfect, kdub. That sums it all up for me.
Here's a thought:
Teach your children well.
Feed them on your dreams.
Beat them and chain them to a tree if they don't listen.
pbrown, I guess the school administration must approve of smoking, drinking, and doing drugs, then. Because I'm sure that kids around Fairbanks are just like I was -- less than five years ago -- when I was in high school. Kids are going to do stuff with or without the approval of any school administration, and all the hellfire and damnation of a few parents can't stop them. Thank God for that.
newsreader - I happen to think very highly of you (whether that matters to you or not, I dunno). This is one of the reasons I have avoided discussing this topic with you. I think that you are very intolerant when it comes to this subject (remember pointing out to me how "blind" my patriotism is? Trying to return the favor I guess - and it is a favor in my view to point out when I am behaving irrationally).
What I was doing was was attempting to point out how similar the two extremes are to each other; extreme views from either side expressed in an extreme manner accomplish nothing. The word of God is infallible; the paper it's written on, the ink it's written with and the people reading it aren't. This is why I am not a Bible literalist - it's silly. I can still see the overall message that is presented and I happen to try to honor it in my life. I'm sorry that you see me as hypocritical here. I feel I'm being pretty damn true to myself and my faith, which doesn't come line-by-line from the Bible. Again, it's the message that is of interest to me. Love. Acceptance. Tolerance.
"However, if I can show others how ridiculous these beliefs are, then I am doing good for society and our community." "I "hate" someone for choosing to endorse and perpetuate institutionalized hatred, bigotry, violence, and murder." How does my faith in God endorse hatred, bigotry, violence and murder, when I have stated quite clearly that I accept none of this in the name of MY faith? How, when I attempt (note I say "attempt") to practice love, acceptance, and tolerance through this faith detract from my community? (I understand that all you say is not directed at me personally, but I use myself in here because I know many more Christians like ME than I do of the Christians that you seem to have known in your life. If I run across those folk, I choose not to associate with them because their views reflect poorly on me.)
Shadowmatrix - A gun in the wrong hands is dangerous. That doesn't make me hate all gun manuals, gun owners or guns and I'm not interested in talking the NRA out of believing in guns. I AM interested in punishing people that choose to use a gun against another person with malicious intent. I'm also okay with letting the gun-owners that don't hurt others to have their guns. Of course some people will twist their beliefs in ways that abuse others, sad but true - which is why we call THEM on it. But to classify ALL Christians as Bible-thumping, evolution-rejecting, homosexual-hating, bigotry-preaching ijits is a heck of a generalization. (Yes, these are my words, not yours. But you get the gist).
To the rest: Homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is biological (think eye-color?). Sexuality is a spectrum, with every human falling somewhere on that spectrum. Hating someone for it, denying them opportunities because of it is short-sighted and hateful, no matter what reasons you have behind it.
(Newsreader - Way off topic: did the president actually say that? When, where? I knew he wasn't the sharpest tool, but pfffft. Wow.)
pbrown: "The students do nothing in a school with out the approval of the administration. Therefore the administration has given their blessing on this activity..."
No, no, no, pbrown. This is a non-school-sponsored event. It is done neither with the administration's approval, nor in defiance of its disapproval, but in full harmony with the students' rights to free expression, which are protected under the U.S. Constitution. The First-Amendment rights of students do not disappear when they walk in the door, and they are always free to express themselves -- most certainly with silence -- without the approval of the administration, as long as their expression does not interfere with the educational environment.
Newsreader: What if I told you that I do believe in God (Goddess, Creator, Supreme Scientist, Whatever) and somehow "identify" (maybe wrong word, not sure) with Christ but I do not believe that "God" values life. Reverence for life is a human value linked directly to human fear of mortality. If then, God does not value life, is it not possible that the actions involved are moot and the people involved in deluded God-endorsed hatred have missed the point? I don't own a Bible, for no other reason than it's just not a priority. I do believe in God. Does my declaration of belief in my invisible friend make me one you would hate? Does my inability to see the writings of men umpteen hundreds of years ago as relevant make me a hypocrite? I think the measure of a "man" is what's in his heart, not his library. I also believe it is impossible to teach tolerance with a hateful heart. I truly hope you'll one day be able to separate the individual from the group and see how an individual's circumstance, culture, and maturation affect his/her choices. Your message of love (which is what tolerance in this issue is) is diffused by your hate for Christians. The one group that may need your message the most probably isn't listening.
For all the anti-religous types that are making the leap between a christian based religion begin the cause of death and harm to gays is totally off base.
It is because our country is christian based gays are allowed to live a normal life.
If it wasnt for the caring of our christian society the forces of other religious groups who are extremely fanatical would not only abuse, but totally kill all GAYS...
Feel lucky that the majority of christians are willing to except you in our society.
If for some reason our christian religious beliefs are destroyed how long do you believe the fanatics are going to tolerate your immorality... None fanatical muslims in Iran kill gays all the time and it isnt with a shot in the arm.
I say put um in uniform (or at the very least have a strict dress code) have no DOS or any other day for that matter. Set higher educational standards and hold them to it. More homework and less BS. Its SCHOOL. I was told when I was in school that my job was to go to school and learn. Kids will still have time to be kids and get together and smoke and joke. But school is school. Strap um to the chair (not literaly) and teach them.
And we wonder why despite our wealth, this nation lags far behind the rest of the industrialized world in education. Why companies look more and more to overseas to fill job vacancies. Cant get qualified applicants here at home!
Then again, I could be wrong.
Dana & Candikane --
I have very little problem with how either of you worship God. The fact that both of you don't quote scriptures (or don't own a bible) takes a HUGE load off. The only objection that I could possibly have to your personal beliefs is that in ending posts with "God Bless" and supporting Christianity in general, you are (very indirectly) giving support to these fundamentalist Christians who ARE teaching the hatred and bigotry. In doing so, you are perpetuating the institution. But, admittedly, that's a stretch.
My statements, unless directly specified as such, are not directed at you two. However, every time someone says they are a Christian, I have to assume they are a fundamentalist until they prove themselves otherwise. Look at ksflatlander - they claim they are not a "bible thumper" (their words) and yet spout religious hatred from the bible. Look at alaskaflower - today she posts about how horrible racism is, but the other day claimed that the bible is "the only "book of science" that has never been disproven or needed revision". When I pointed out that the bible calls for death to all except the devout God fearing, she has no response.
I will admit to calling Dana out a few times. And, I will probably continue to point out what I see as hypocrisy in her (or others). I do this for two reasons.
Firstly, because she is obviously very intelligent and enlightened and yet still holds her belief in God - I don't get this and would like to try to understand.
Secondly, to try to show her more examples of the evil that I see that result from the institution that her faith supports.
Dana --
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
--George Herbert Walker Bush, Former U. S. President, 1988.
[You can find this quote in many places on the net. Please note how the "under God" that was inappropriately placed in our pledge of allegiance by McCarthyism is being used by the fundamentalists as a tool to oppress and degrade American citizens.]
bikebuilder - Just a note - "religion" and "morality" are not one in the same. One can have morality without religion, and vice versa.
It is here that I agree with (*gasp*) sdoownek about the importance of science - one day it will prove "gay" to be biological. Perhaps on that day we'll see others accept it as reality rather than choice.
Reader1 - I agree with you in this last post. Not sure today is that much different than yesterday in the adults wondering "what the heck...?" about the kids, but I agree that setting higher educational standards is much more important for the health and vitality of the country and the citizens.
Speaking (writing?) of educational standards, I have been ignoring my own to focus here... (What the heck?) Back to my studyin' stuffs. Good luck with figurin' this stuff out today.
"...that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
^^^
GOD
The God thing has always been an integral concept in regards to our government. Though many of the founders were not christian.
I think we need to fear both ends of the spectrum, far right as well as left. Each wants to control us and tell us how to live.
No. Not God. Creator.
Had they meant God, they would have said God.
There's a VAST difference.
Reader1 --
My Creator was my mom (with a little bit of help from dad).
But, you are correct - both ends of the spectrum are bad.
Bikebuilder --
Nice use of negative relativism -- compare Christianity to Fundamentalist Muslim law. That'll make you look good. Nice ploy. Along those same lines, compared to Hitler, Osama is a saint! But, that doesn't mean I'm gonna back his beliefs either! *lol*
My comments on this article:
I think that this DOS is a sneaky way to divert attention to the pro-Homosexual agenda. While the idea itself may be well intentioned by its creators, it's a very poor avenue to be carried out in. Thank you to the Newsminor for bringing this to our attention.
I influence hundreds of teenagers every week.
I will be teaching them that homosexuality is wrong this week.
I will be encouraging them along with their parents to object to this DOS.
I will not stop spreading the Truth.
What will you be doing this week?
Well I thought it would be fun to stir the pot.