Letter to the Editor
Palin and God
Published Tuesday, October 7, 2008
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To the editor:
After watching the video of Sarah Palin’s talk in church, I was extremely upset by her use of the Lord’s name to further her agenda.
Please see for yourself the “Sarah Palin & the Wasilla Assembly of God Video.”
This is a direct quote from Sarah Palin: “I think God’s will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that …”
Can the Third Commandment also mean: Thou shalt not use the Lord’s name to gain an audience for your political gain or profit?
Palin’s direct quote regarding the Iraq War and U.S. troops: “Our national leaders are sending them (our U.S. troops) out on a task that is from God. ... that plan is God’s plan.”
How can she believe Iraq is part of God’s plan? I truly fear for our country, especially our young people, if she is elected.
If we pray to God, let us pray for guidance, and reconciliation with our enemies and hope for a better world for our children.
Community Discussion
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Years ago the Seattle cartoonist Peter Bagge drew a picture of an evangelist with an enormous pompadour thrusting several inches above his head and captioned it "The bigger the hair, the closer to God."
I think about that cartoon whenever I see a picture of Sarah with her hair pile.
(BTW, I'm bald, which by Bagge's standard might explain why I'm not on a first-name basis with the Lord.)
...and why people like you seriously believe articles such as this blatant AP smear to be substanitive.
If the U.S. military itself now understands that nation building is the best tool for achieving national security, then maybe that'll be enough to counter the hawkish mindset of any trigger-happy VP.
Or at least, let's hope so, if the McPalin ticket wins.
Which they won't.
At this point, I have no doubt in my mind that Senator Barack Hussein Obama will be our next President, and Senator Biden, our next VP. God will bless America.
We've figured it out and will pay less tax with Obama/Biden than McPalin.
Ponderous - it's not an AP anything. This is video footage of Gov. Stupid herself saying these things. According to her, the war is of God, the gas line...anything she wants or believes in is "of God." I don't believe He approves of her use of His name.
God DOES have a plan indeed..and all that we are seeing is just part of His plan...unfortunatly those who do not believe or follow the Lord could care less..and will blame everything on those that proclaim Him.. that is satans plan... Everything we see happening in our day and time is all Part of Gods greater scheme of things.. you just watch and see.... time will prove my point...oh ..and btw.... read the Scriptures... You'll see the Victory is already won.. so complain all you want.. it won't do you any good. If I were you..while you all that complain about God still have time .. get on His side of the fence.... you will be better off if you do.
OK, good. So when Obama wins, it's God's plan, right? Because God doesn't make mistakes, right? It's all part of the plan.
Glad we finally agree on something here. I'll sleep well tonight.
well I was taught my God is not your God and my God will kick your Gods ass, isn't America beautiful. That is why we have seperation of church and state, so polititians can't pray for guidence.
justme is that the book of revelations and the part about Obamanation
It doesn't matter who is elected, we will pay more taxes. Can you honestly expect taxes to go down when we now have to pay off over 800 billion dollars for the Wall Street bail out, on top of the debt we have incurred with the Iraq war? Those two actions alone have put us close to 2 trillion dollars in debt. You are deluding yourself if you think John McCain can lower taxes with this scenario.
Regarding Sarah and her religion. You should also watch the video where she is being released from witches. She is truly a scary woman. I think she looks forward to the End of Days, so maybe she would help things along by initiating a nuclear first strike.
no, sad thing is that it almost doesnt matter who gets in now, the economy is in such ruin we are damned regardless. neither will be able to pursue much of an agenda for the foreseeable future.
thanks George. just one more parting gift.
look, I dont care if Palin prays to musk oxen. Just so long as she keeps her nose out of my business, what do I care? I thought her answer on gay marriage during the debate was spot on -- I was really impressed and surprised. In fact, too surprised. this is the woman whose church is trying to pray the gay away? but maybe she doesn't subscribe to everything they believe. if not, good for her, I dont believe all the crap I hear each weekend either. but my gut tells me she wasn't leveling with us on that one. still, if she was, I was pleased to hear that on that issue at least, I'm with her.
goldstreamer---
What law is it that prohibits a national leader from praying for guidance? You must be confusing us for the old Soviet Union. Every president and vice president that I've ever read about asked for guidance from God. I would be interested if you know an exception.
pinhead---
Gov Palin has expressed that she doesn't allow her personal religious views to guide her governing. She has not tried to outlaw the holy sacrament of abortion in Alaska, she has not persecuted gays in Alaska, she has not even proposed the death penalty for repeat child molesters in Alaska. It's interesting that you choose not to believe her, but you support a ticket with Joe Biden on it, who lied many times during their debate about his and the former community organizer Obama's voting records.
Now if you dont believe her words, then that's on you. You weren't going to vote for her anyhow.
Additionally, Sarah prayed that the war was God's plan. "...that that plan is God's plan."
Because we're in it anyway, so for those to whom it matters, praying that it is God's plan isn't a bad thing.
If you guys are gonna always jump on the bandwagon, at least get it right here in Alaska. The rest of the country is out of our hands. Listen to the video again. Perhaps more carefully next time.
I didnt vote for Sarah Palin and have apologized to her for that. I spoke to her on Michael Duke's radio show and told her how much I now supported her. Well, low and behold, I am watching her at a rally in Jacksonville, FL and she is full of it!!! As soon as she gets back to Alaska, and finds herself back on his show, as sure as the sun is coming up today, I am going to call her again and tell her how disappointed I am in her!! She is spouting those same tired lines of the Republicans and how in the world are they going to win the war, reduce taxes AND pay off the national debt?!?!?! There is NO WAY they will have a balanced budget or anything close to it. McCain/Palin are making it easy for me to vote. I really want Ron Paul, but that is not going to happen, but I sure hope McCain/Palin doesnt happen either (and feel sure it will not...they are going to lose by a landslide)
Governor Palin was quoting President Lincoln. It's no surprise that so many ill-educated or ill-meaning Americans would misinterpret her (and his) words. For the dunder-heads, this prayer is meant as an admonishment that we "pray that we are doing God's will".
She might believe in a mighty all-powerful God but the Muslims have one too.
In fact their God is so powerful according to what I read that even if Obama was only a child when inducted into the Muslim world, he can't really be a Christian because "once a Muslim, always a Muslim". Those fact-filled e-mails my repub friends keep sending say just that.
Also, and here's the clincher, their God gets them to blow themselves up in his name. I wonder if Sarah's Christian God could get her to do that!
Google Obama/Selma and read his speech. It is quite interesting to review his views
http://www.barackobama.com/2007/03/04/se...
Since the US is a secular nation, and we have the freedom to worship (or not) as we choose, we also have a presumption that no elected official will impose their beliefs in making decisions or statements that affect all of us. Sure, I understand the reality is that this is a veil over our eyes that permits Catholics to elect Jews and Baptists to elect Protestants and once elected, those in office will do as they choose. But, as informed individuals, we have the opportunity to take a stand and say that we don't think it is OK for someone who aspires to hold office to be so arrogant as to presume to know "God's plan", nor to further presume that one's knowledge of such a "plan" is consistent with governmental policies. To do so is to exploit those who hold such beliefs into thinking a particular candidate or party are held in some special regard by whatever deity they choose to believe in. This is mass exploitation of the masses. Think for yourself.
Yukonjohn-
Ron Paul has endorsed Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party.
I voted for Ron in '88 and I think I'll vote for the guy he endorsed. I'm not and never have been a party to this mess. I don't get the government I deserve, to the contrary of those who say we all do.
http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.ph...
Hey, are you in town? Want to go to Two Rivers?
Many would not recognize this since we've removed God from our public institutions, and supidified our secondary and post-secondary students in regards to our heritage in the founding fathers. This makes a path for liberals to push their agenda.
Great website: http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFound...
I say none of this to the credibility of Sarah.
To Christians... her feminist agenda and lifestyle is not reflective of God's desire (based on scripture, not my opinion) of how a women ought to live. Feminism continues to destroy families day by day. The church should understand why this takes place. If not, church, read your Bible again. Problem is, we've go too many weak church leaders trying to keep their church organizations going financially to preach truth in this area, and then wonder about the high divorce rates amongst the body of Christ that is just like the rest of the world.
To everyone else...Probably ought to go back and read again how and why this country was started. There are consequences for moving away from the absolute moral standard on which this country was founded to a more "progressive" approach to morality. Lack of morals and ethical business standards are what have brought us to this point. Once again, the real problem in our country finds its roots in its roots in its standards of morality. For instance, we are simply reaping the consequence with our pragmatic, selfish approach to business and finances. If a Biblical standard of morality were carried out in home and business, it is without question we would not be in the mess we are in.
Food for thought -
Jean Benson:
"This is a direct quote from Sarah Palin: “I think God’s will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that"
Jean, "that" represents God's will be done. So, Sarah said pray for God's will be done, NOT pray for the gas line.
Sarah was merely asking for God's will to be done -- right out of the Lord's Prayer!!
I'm so proud of you, Sarah.
.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/03/...
Chicago Sun Times article regarding "SELMA, ALA.--From the pulpit of the historic Brown Chapel A.M.E. church, White House hopeful Barack Obama talks about the job of the "Joshua generation" and his own claim to a place in the civil rights movement." March 4, 2007
glaceries, if you read what I wrote, you saw that I was just surprised but yes, am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. I was pleased to see that she was willing to place justice and tolerance over her own views which, I believe, are not so embracing of the gay lifestyle (I could be wrong, but I am basing my view upon what I understand her overall worldview to be). Regardless, this is what I look for in a leader among other things, the ability to represent as many constituencies as possible. So again, I was pleased to hear it, but yes, surprised.
as for abortion being a sacrament, you were being sarcastic, I hope?
No, I will not be voting for her. But if she is elected, she will be my Vice President, and I will support and respect her in this capacity. Can you say the same thing for Senator Biden? He did not "lie" to any degree that I can discern in the debate. Did he stumble, get some facts wrong and twist things (I explained that clever comparison he used about the two wars in a previous thread, did you read it?). Did he stutter a tad, use the word "Bosniacs"? Yes, he did. I am more than willing to point out his every deficiency, just as I know that there are people out there ready to point out my own. I don't feel the need to defend him at all costs, or to say he is something he is not. Take him or leave him, he is who he is. As is the case of Gov. Palin, right? Take her or leave her, she is who she is. Same for Obama. Same for this country. We are who we are. No apologies. But we aren't perfect, right? Not our policies, not our democracy, none of it. Nor the Christian religion, or any religion for that matter. Works for some folks, but it's not perfect, right? Right?
Praying not allowed by politicians? What? i would say old school thought is married, catholic/protestant, children was a pre requisite to being considered as a president or vice in this country as long as it has been here.
Besides, Didn't Reagan have an astrologer, I mean psychic?
First of all, Jesus is Christianity and he came to be in the New Testament. He talks about loving thy neighbor, doing unto others as you would have them do unto you, taking care of the poor and wretched, and so on. Nowhere does he say that if you want something your neighbor has (oil), which is against commandment #10 [you should not covet your neighbors stuff], you should go over and kill him [against commandment #6 - thou shalt not kill]. Hence, the Iraq war can not be God's will or part of His plan. Rather, God gave us free will and the ability to make our own decisions, right or wrong. Unfortunately, we've made a lot of wrong decisions for which He weeps, I'm sure. Voting for the egomaniac, hawkish ticket of McCain/Palin would lead us to more of the same of what we've had under Bush.
Jean Benson,
Did you deliberately misquote her by omitting the full statement.
Or were you furthering someone else's agenda by repeating what you had been told.
If it was an original thought you might want to get the full quote.
I was proud of Biden, when talking of his families tragedy he did not falsely accuse the other driver of being drunk. As he has done on so many other occasions for his political benefit.
Hate to remind you, but we are in the middle of a Holy war.
No sourdough, we're in the middle of a rich man's war, being fought to control the world's resources, just like pretty much every other war.
Obama may not be a Muslim, but he also claims that he didn't pay attention to anything his pastor( rev. wright) said for 20 years.
You know the big suprise that - what my pastor hates America? My pastor is a racist. No way how can that be I have loved, respected and sat under his preaching for 20 years and I never had a clue until the national media rubbed my nose in it.
So what is He? He doesnt align himself with anything other than " I am a Christian", that is weak. There is not any conclusive evidence that he is a Christian or a muslim. He doesnt stand for anything. Religious people stand for something, Obama doesnt take any stand on any religious issues.
Can you really believe anything this man says? If this isnt an obvious lie, and something to at least have reservations about I sure don't know what would be.
If the quotes that the author gave are accurate, then I can't disagree. I've been extremely disappointed by Palin.
This election is a joke and obviously staged.
Vote Chuck Baldwin or write in Ron Paul'08
pinhead:
You thought her answer to the gay thing was "spot on"?
Queenie said she still liked her friend and respected her "choice"?
"Choice"? Whenever I hear anyone use the 'choice' argument, I suspect they are either a closeted gay or are parroting some denominational talking point the preacher told them about.
I've never had a urge to pounce on a guy in my life. I like girls. I'm a heterosexual. Choice implies that I 'choose' which way I go. I've never had the choice, have you?
Point is, this religious, whacko argument about "choice" is just what I said it is... a whacko religious belief. She is either a whacko or a bit dim. I suspect both.
Whacko misspelled on purpose for emphasis.
dog
Bill Clinton took his spiritual advice from Jesse Jackson. Look where that got him. (Both of them, actually.)
One of the reasons I've supported Sarah as governor is that she's sidestepped the social issues and focused on the economic ones. Pushing a social agenda, regardless of which side you do it from, will only divide the voters. The office holder who focuses on protecting everyone's pocketbook will enjoy broad support.
The economic crisis will consume the next administration so deeply that anything else will fall by the wayside. For anyone who missed the Tom Blackburn essay on today's editorial page, here's a link. As he says, both major candidates are flunking the reality test.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion/con...
Okay, so Sarah happens to have faith. So?
If Obama Wins the White House ( He should be in Jail ) Your going to get an "Ear-Full" of Muslims AND Gods Plan !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MRtoXPTy...
Where is Obama ??
Is it any surprise that nothing is beyond exploitation for Sarah Palin?
She kept her newborn up til 11pm so he could do a photo op on stage after the debate.
When Joe Biden choked back tears talking about the accident that destroyed his first family, Palin threw out some insult about taxes and started bragging about being a maverick.
Now she's holding rallies with deep-south racist rednecks who shout "terrorist!" and "kill him!" when she lies about Obama.
Sarah Palin is an icy-hearted, vindictive, backstabbing, selfish, arrogant, and stunningly dishonest person who's trying to flirt her way into a position of power she is not prepared to handle. If she loved America even in the slightest, she would admit that she's not qualified for the job and wouldn't have accepted McCain's offer. But her ambition is much more important than her country.
If she met Jesus, he would probably punch her in the face.
(This comment was removed by the Newsminer.com staff. Please see our User Agreement for further information.)
God told King Pinocchio to invade Iraq, according to the news.. He yanked us out of Afghanistan and into a country with no ties to 9/11, just when we had Bin Laden and al-Qaeda in our clutches.
Lemme see. 3 trillion borrowed American Taxpayer dollars in direct and indirect costs, and now we find out the Neo Con owned Oil and Energy Conglomerates now own the Iraqi Oilfields.
Add to that the up to 53-54 trillion American Taxpayer dollar deficit, in direct and indirect costs, the Neo Con Parasites foisted on the American Taxpayers...
how will Americans pay for the massive deficit? Republicans won't pay for their lavish lifestyle and holler Democrats will raise your taxes everytime a Democrat promises to pay on our debt.
What else will Jesus Christ tell King Pinocchio and our very own.. Pitbull with Lipstick??
You can put lipstick on a pitbull, but in the end, it's still a pitbull.
You can also paint whitewash on a t--d,, but it's still a turd..
How many Alaska Natives are going to vote for these anti-native carpetbaggers?
Sarah has tried to bring religion into government since she was Mayor. She aligned Wasilla with a radical religious organization, suggested book banning for books not consistant with religious beliefs, AND charged rape victims for medical exams (probably as punishment for taking the morning after pill as a form of abortion). She fires anyone not 100% loyal to her and puts her career above the needs of her family. It's shameful the way she drags her 7yo around the country for photo ops while hiding the pregnant one(s). She needs to spend more time teaching her values to her kids and less spreading lies.
dio -- spot on, meaning I personally feel people have the right to do what they want, but I don't personally have to support it. I am a hypocrit on this one -- lots of gay friends, a gay ex-wife for that matter, but I have a hard time with the whole "marriage" issue. again, I am more than willing to admit my own failings. I am totally inconsistent on this one. so yes, in truth, I liked Biden's very Catholic answer, which she then agreed with. that's what I meant -- I liked the way she (they) put it, that's all. hope that doesn't sound homophobic.
Yeah, you can't help feeling sorry for Palin's kids. It's got to be awful to have such a lying, selfish, mother who plays favorites with her kids to boost her political image. Hopefully some of them still turn out okay.
It can't help your self-esteem any when your parents name you Track, Leaf, Handle, Stormdrain, Snorkel, Denim, etc... hopefully Sarah hits menopause before they get all the way down the name list to Mucus Palin.
This Doggone Dog Watcher agrees with Dog Nabber and the letter writer.
Sarah's secrets are out and she needs all the Elmer Gantry Gods she can summon, as well as a weekly baptism in Nancy Lake, Wasilla Lake, Lake Lucille, and for good measure Knik Arm to try and absolve her of her sins.
Since ambition took her into the Big Spotlight, we have learned her family is in tatters, she can't live in Juneau, her kids are naughty and don't listen to their parents, she has cheated on her per diem, and she has lied about her participation in Troopergate. Now she is lying about her infidelity to Todd according to her Family as stated in today's National Enquirer!
Why is it all the dopes believe the Enquirer when it is about a Democrat, but say it is just 'garbage' when it deals with Palin.
And what about all those less than holy pastors and their kinky sinners? Their ambition is sin, but summoning spirits to void witchcraft and the sins of their flocks must be really good for business and the collection plate....
-Kerjing! Kajing! What theatre!
Dognabber--you shouldn't believe every single thing you hear or read. Palin confirmed that the book banning deal was false. Also, nothing has been proven in the troopergate deal--unless you know something we don't. If you do know something about that other than speculation, we would love to know also.
Are you a parent? Where do you get off knowing what is best for other people's kids? Maybe we should pray for you.
What does “Obama” and “Osama Bin Laden” have in Common! They both know people that “Bombed the Pentagon
Family reformer succinctly states the EXACT reasons that I despise religion... And, the type of mentality typical of those evangelical believers types...
1) "her feminist agenda and lifestyle is not reflective of God's desire (based on scripture, not my opinion) of how a women ought to live. Feminism continues to destroy families day by day."
Any progress that is not fully god approved and endorsed by a particular person's reading or INTERPRETATION of the bible must be wrong, and, therefore will destroy families and America.
2) "There are consequences for moving away from the absolute moral standard on which this country was founded to a more "progressive" approach to morality."
So, for Family_reformer (and any bible literalist or fundamentalist), only god can define morals and those morals were defined in the bible many, many millenia ago. According to their beliefs, we should all be operating by the literal translation of the bible.
Nevermind the fact that we (mankind) have evolved our own rules and regulations for life that include such things as freedom (the bible endorses slavery), pursuit of happiness (not in the bible), right to a trial (not in the bible), children's rights (bible say to beat and/or kill you kids if they are bad), women's rights (bible says women have to be subservient to their men and should be killed if not virgins when married), etc, etc, etc...
To return to the "absolute moral standard" given in the bible would be a return to the harsh, brutal days of the bronze age. Is that really what we, as a society, wants?
To say that man can not define his own morals (and hasn't been doing so since the times of Hammarabi's Codes of Laws) is to deny any sort of reason and brand oneself as a blind sheep who has no capability for critical independent thought.
PLEASE PEOPLE, LISTEN TO YOUR REASON...
MAN HAS BEEN AND SHALL CONTINUE TO BE IN CONTROL OF THEMSELVES!
Tell it, newsreader!
lagirl: yes, I am a mother. And, please don't pray for me, I'm not running for office. The items I related to are a matter of public record not rag sheet gossip. I live in Wasilla and not everyone believes the dictation of GOP, who, by the way, told congregated people that if they didn't have anything nice to say about Sarah, step back. I am non-partisan so no political group is going to tell me what I can or cannot say. I didn't vote for her the first time and I won't again.
Dognabber---that was a wonderful speech! Are you sure you aren't running for a office? Public record: Why don't we talk about all the lies that Biden spouted off at the debate? What about the fact that he didn't even know what the job duties were of the VP? BTW-who was raising Biden's kids after his wife died? There are lots of people who are in powerful positions and still find a way to have a family and raise them well. What would you be saying if she left the kids at home for the nanny to raise? At least they are by her side---where are your kids and better yet have they ever made a decision that you didn't approve of?
lagirl -- you know nothing of Biden's history apparently. HE raised them. it is a long but in my opinion quite inspiring story for fathers like me. read up on it girl. you clearly know nothing. best to shut up on this one. and he absolutely knows what the VP does. too bad Cheney doesnt know. and Sarah apparently wants to follow in his footsteps.
Ok, I can't let this go... Here's more from family reformer
"Probably ought to go back and read again how and why this country was started."
I have - I've read the constitution and the declaration of independence. One of the primary tenants is equality. All men are created equal, right?
How does the bible and the history of religion play into this great equality of all mankind? It doesn't...
The basis of most (all?) fundamentalist religions is that one group of people are "god's choosen". This, by default, means that they are better than the rest of the people.
Why was slavery so accepted for so long in America? Because white people believed they were better than the blacks. Why? Because of these so-called "absolute morals" from the bible. Remember, the bible endorses slavery.
I urge you to go back and read the old testament with this in mind - does God want us to believe that we are all (EVERYONE ON THIS PLANET) equal? Or, does he want (old testament) for the Jews to believe that they are better than everyone else? Does god not smite all of the enemies of his chosen people again and again throughout the old testament?
I submit that strict adherence to the bible and its morals is, in fact, very UN-AMERICAN. The bible does not allow for equality of blacks & whites, men & women, gays and straights. The bible calls for the domination of women, blacks, orientals, heathens, gays, in fact, ALL PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT PART OF GOD'S CHOSEN FEW.
Thus, biblical fundamentalists (whether Christian or Muslim or whatever) are anathema to the American ideal of equality. So, please, stop trying to convince me that our great country was founded on these repugnant, oppressive, control-by-the-white-man fundamentalist religious beliefs, when few things could further from the truth.
Pinhead---how could he possibly raise his kids if he has held a political position for 30 some years? If Biden knows what the VP does then why didn't he answer the question correctly in the debate? It is funny how there is a double standard when we are talking about Biden's family--when really there is no difference.
You can tell me to shut up on this one Pinhead, but you might want to check out some of those tall-tales that Biden has spouted. I'll put you on my prayer list as well.
OMG, Setec, I was reading this at work (sneaking on the Internet = bad bad no no) and you got me busted when I laughed out loud at 'Mucus Palin'. Quit that. ;)
lagirl, out of laziness and the fact that I have a pile of papers to grade, I just went to Wikipedia. I never use it due to questionable reliability, but in this case, the entry is cited, so I offer it fyi.
Quote:
"Biden's campaign issues focused on withdrawal from Vietnam, the environment, civil rights, and "change".[19] His energy level, his attractive young family, and his ability to connect with voters' emotions gave Biden an advantage over the ready-to-retire Boggs.[5] Biden won the November 7, 1972 election in an upset by a margin of 3,162 votes.[19]
A few weeks after the election, Biden's wife and year-old daughter were killed in an automobile accident while Christmas shopping in Hockessin, Delaware on December 18, 1972.[2] (Neilia Biden's station wagon was hit by a tractor-trailer as she pulled out from an intersection; the truck driver was cleared of any wrongdoing.)[20] Biden's two sons, Beau and Hunter, were critically injured in the accident, but both eventually made full recoveries.[2] Biden considered resigning in order to care for them;[5] persuaded not to by Senate Majority Leader Mike Mansfield; he was sworn into office from one of their bedsides.[21] The accident left Biden filled with both anger and religious doubt: "I liked to [walk around seedy neighborhoods] at night when I thought there was a better chance of finding a fight ... I had not known I was capable of such rage ... I felt God had played a horrible trick on me."[21]
In order to be at home every day for his young sons,[22] Biden began the practice of commuting an hour and a half each day on the train from his home in the Wilmington suburbs to Washington, D.C., which he continues to do.[5] In the aftermath of the accident, he had trouble focusing on work, and appeared to just go through the motions of being a senator. In his memoirs, Biden notes that staffers were taking bets on how long he would last.[23][16] A single father for five years, Biden left standing orders that he be interrupted in the Senate at any time if his sons called.[21] In remembrance of the accident, Biden does not work on December 18."
do me a favor, lagirl -- don't pray for me. I do plenty of praying on my own, and I don't need your help, thanks. if you want to pray, pray for for all the single mothers and fathers out there like my wife who had to do what Joe Biden did -- but worse, didn't have the financial resources he had to pull it off in this, the supposedly greatest country in the world.
WAY TO GO NEWSREADER!!!! AWESOME!!!! I love it! That is one of the most well-thought out comments I have seen on here ever.
Lagirl: Can you post a quote from Biden incorrectly defining the Vice Presidency? As far as Biden's family goes, he didn't have five children including a four-month old infant with Down's Syndrome. Look up his story, though. Pinhead is right. It is inspiring.
pinhead....thank you. I worked and raised my family alone also. Many working parents have great support networks that manage to give their children a stable home life while they earn the paychecks that put food on the table. Others have to just make do but put their kids first in all decisions. In my opinion, dragging children all over the country with no home routine does not foster "happiness" in most kids. Leaving the children at home with Dad would make more sense and give them some stability.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,4333... Here you go Henry. (I hope this works)
Henry--why does it matter how many children he has? She can take care of her children just as good....that is my point.
Dognabber--that is your opinion and other people probably could have critized you for being a single parent, but I am sure you did the best you could. All I am getting at is it is ignorant to assume how this woman treats her kids or how she raises them- just by what you see on TV.
The majority of the last dozen or so posts from CurtJ on thru 1:32 are full of lies and misstatements, misquotes and gross exaggerations! It's not worth the time to even try to respond to such trash!!!
All I can say is, I hope people have the common sense to do their own research and study, and don't blindly believe the trash that these people are posting here. Clearly there is no sense of honesty or respect for the truth.
Be careful who you believe!
Who'd have guessed a Fox news story? *chuckle*
Wait, wasn't Fox news the ONLY source that claimed a victory for Palin in the debate when ALL OTHER SOURCES told the truth, that she lost miserably?
Yeah, sure, lets listen to the one source and ignore the fact that it is saying the opposite of EVERY OTHER SOURCE AVAILABLE. That's the way to keep an open mind... You betcha!
Lagirl: Mistaking Article I for Article II is hardly a big deal. However, the rest of the argument in that article is flawed. In practical terms, the Vice President DOES NOT preside over the Senate. The position does carry the title "President of the Senate," but that role is almost universally delegated to the President Pro Tempore (which was Ted Stevens 2 years ago) or even further to a junior Senator in the majority party. The only role that is not so delegated is the tie-breaking vote.
Presiding over the Senate has not been an important role of the Vice President since John C. Calhoun in the 1830s.
Ultimately, then, you are technically correct to say that Biden was wrong about the Vice Presidency, in that he gave the wrong article in the Constitution. However, his explanation of the role of the position was functionally correct and it is too much of a stretch to then state that he does not know what the job is.
You wanted a link and I gave it--they sited there fact checker. It doesn't matter who said who won the debate, but if either one is standing up there spouting off lies--I want to know about it. Do you have some information to say that the fox link is false?
Alaskaflower has finally said something I can wholeheartedly agree with -- "Be careful who you believe!"
And, just so you can make up your mind who to believe, here are some other quotes from her...
Here she claims to have God's phone number:
"glow: "Alaskaflower, you mean that God sends you emails? Or that you can look at his profile on the News-Miner and read his other posts? Hey, if you really do have God's email, would you post it here for the rest of us to have?"
xxx
I can give you his phone number.....
Jeremiah 33:3"
She claims he answers prayers...
"Those of us who truly know God and have a relationship with Him can cite many, many things that were nothing short of miraculous answers to prayer."
God gives her money!
"I asked the Lord to help me find some money so I could give it to my friend. I had recently gone through a small cabinet, looking for something, and I knew every item that was in there. Feeling I should look in there for money, I did, and there, right in plain site, was $200!"
She has daily two-way discussions with god... (he actually talks back?)
"I would KNOW that God is real, because we have a close relationship with daily two-way communication."
Belief in witches (like Palin, huh?):
"Denying that witches exist is the same as denying that God exists, in that you are wrong on both counts"
She a self admitted fanatical extremist:
"I embrace the teachings of the Bible to the point of extremism"
"I am a fanatic ... of Jesus."
She claims that our schools show pornos during class
"The fact that I was not present in a classroom (parents never are...) when young children were shown graphic videos of men having anal sex, etc., under the guise of sex education, does not make it any less heinous."
There are many many more such gems in her posting past.
So, yes, people, I beseech you -- Be careful who you believe!
Because if you are not, you might end up like this little flower...
Love the comment about Obama lying. Gee how many videos have we all seen of Palin lying in almost everyone of them? You really ought to take a look and wonder where your conscience is that you would support and condone Palin and her lies.
Yes, newsreader, I am a fanatical extremist.
So are you.
Your lies and misrepresentations about what you think the Bible says are beyond the point of extremism. As many have said to you, you reek of hatred for God. You are shaking your fist in His face. Is that not fanatical extremism?
Football fans are also fanatical extremists - hence the word "fan."
newsreader said: "I submit that strict adherence to the bible and its morals is, in fact, very UN-AMERICAN. The bible does not allow for equality of blacks & whites, men & women, gays and straights. The bible calls for the domination of women, blacks, orientals, heathens, gays, in fact, ALL PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT PART OF GOD'S CHOSEN FEW."
xxx
The Bible certainly DOES allow for equality of blacks and whites. I believe I have called your attention before to the fact that Moses' sister was reprimanded by God for speaking against Moses for being married to an Ethopian (black African) woman. You only hear what you want to hear, newsreader.
The Bible gives different roles to men and women, but no-where does it say they are not equal.
WHERE does the Bible call for "the domination of women, blacks, orientals, heathens, gays, in fact, ALL PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT PART OF GOD'S CHOSEN FEW"??? IT DOES NOT!!!!! This is a figment of your imagination!
The only portion of your ranting that has any hint of truth is that the Bible does condemn homosexuality, which is an act, not a type of person, just as it condemns murderers and others who commit acts that God calls abomination. (And don't tell me homosexuals are born that way. There is NO scientific evidence to support that position, in spite of claims that such evidence exists. I have read the two scientific studies that supposedly support such a claim, and they contain NOTHING to that effect. That claim came from the twisted headlines reported by the press.)
As to your claim that America was not founded on the principles of Christianity, well, you must have slept through U.S. history class in high school.
THE LIES BIDEN TOLD
October 4, 2008
For all the focus on Sarah Palin's graceful performance in Thursday's vice presidential showdown, a more significant spectacle was taking place behind the other rostrum.
That's where Joe Biden, speaking with the pompus self-importance befitting his 36 years in the Senate, told one baffling fib after another.
Some, of course, were just Biden being Biden. He smeared Dick Cheney as "the most dangerous vice president we've had probably in American history."
To which we must take specific offense: After all, the founder of this newspaper, Alexander Hamilton, was killed in a duel by then-Vice President Aaron Burr. (Certainly Burr was a better shot than Cheney.)
But that's a matter of opinion.
Not so, some other Biden gems:
* It's "simply not true" that Barack Obama said he'd meet Iran's president without preconditions, Biden insisted.
Yet when Obama was asked if he would in a debate during the primaries, he said yes - a position Biden back then termed "naive."
* Biden said he's "always supported" clean-coal technology - after stating emphatically only last month, "We're not supporting clean coal."
* Biden asserted - repeatedly - that the US spends more money on three weeks' combat in Iraq than it's spent in Afghanistan since the war began.
That claim's only remotely intelligible if he limits Afghan expenditures merely to US rebuilding efforts - and even then, he's off by a factor of three, according to State Department numbers.
* Also on Afghanistan, Biden insisted - repeatedly - that "our commanding general in Afghanistan said the surge principle in Iraq will not work" there.
That may not be an out-and-out lie, but it took supposed foreign-policy neophyte Sarah Palin to bring any context or nuance to the statement.
What Gen. David McKiernan had said was that tribal realities in Afghanistan are very different than in Iraq - requiring a different form of cooperation.
But he flatly said more troops, and more local engagement, are needed.
Sounds like a surge to us.
* Then there was what might have been the biggest head-scratcher of the night. Said Biden of the Bush administration's supposed Middle East follies:
"When . . . along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, I said and Barack said, 'Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don't, Hezbollah will control it."
Huh?
Assuming that Biden was referring to when, in 2005, American and French pressure helped the Lebanese people kick Syrian troops out of Lebanon, who ever thought NATO occupation of that deeply divided country was a good idea?
As if America's NATO allies would have gone in the first place.
But hey, as long as it makes Biden sound presidential.
At some point, Americans have to wonder: Is this a fellow who should be a heartbeat away from the White House?
akhusky..u hit the nail on the head..it don't matter who is elected, this country is screwed either way.
Yes, he is.
alaskaflower, your little editorial about how homosexuals couldn't possibly be born that way shows just how prejudiced you are. Your inability to look at and evaluate science (of which there are plenty of studies that conclude a biological basis for sexuality) shows you are incapable of anything but an emotional response to our problems.
God help us all if McCain gets elected period, we need a change in political views because every president so far has been all for war...practically
During normal working hours the libs seem to roam unchallenged on the web. Now the day is over and the good people that make this country work are settling down at home to a beer and some "news." Perhaps some balance will return to the force.
Imusuallyright:"flower-
It angers me greatly that you tried to pass the words in your 6:02 post off as your own."
Are you really serious, IUR? It never entered my mind to pass them off as my own words. And I really doubt that McCain would object to having them posted here.
And, BTW, I didn't copy them from the McCain website.
tok242: "alaskaflower, your little editorial about how homosexuals couldn't possibly be born that way shows just how prejudiced you are. Your inability to look at and evaluate science (of which there are plenty of studies that conclude a biological basis for sexuality) shows you are incapable of anything but an emotional response to our problems."
xxx
I would be happy to read these "plenty of studies", Tok, if you would care to post them here - with citations, please. The two studies I have seen cited as "proof" say nothing of the sort.
...because it's all a game to you, isn't it roadtrip? You're just so much better, bigger and faster, aren't ya? You can respond with 'darn tootin' if you like b/c i know it's bubblin' up inside of ya.
In my opinion, most of the folks who are slobbering over Obama are just plain greedy. Here's why;
People who are buying what he is selling want more. More money, more jobs, more government controls, more Obama. It's like a freaky sub-cult. In the absence of good leadership, followers will follow anyone who knows how to wind the showtunes music box and pull a rabbit out of his hat. This inherently leads some more folks to jump on the bandwagon because they aren't strong enough to make their own independant decision. This is the probable election of Barack Obama.
The problem is, once the magic show is over, and all of the real work begins, we'll have a newbie at the helm of the most powerful office in the world. And all we have really heard from him is "CHANGE". "Change" this, and "change" that but all of the flash and shine won't help him make a no-kidding decision on the topics that really effect this nation.
Thats were the selfishness and greed come in. This election shouldn't be about how a candidate will help you. This election is about a nation. IT's NOT ABOUT "YOU", IT's ABOUT "WE". I am tired of hearing how each individual is mad about how energy prices effect thwe individual, how blab-blah-blah. Why are we as a nation so concentrated on what's in it for the individual. Let me quote a President who said somethign along the lines of asking not what your country can do for you but rather what can you do for your country. Where is that nation? Where is that self-sacrifice. Don't tell me that we sacrifice by paying more for gas. Horse crap. Where is the real service to country/state/community?
I say neither candidate is worthy of this job. The problem is that between the "gotta get a minority in the office" voters, the bandwagon voters, the "we need change" voters, and the real sheep who just vote the party norm, Obama will be elected the next President of the U.S. If he becomes president, I suppose 2 things:
1. the office certainly will not hold any real excitement or luster. If we can put in a freshman senator with so little overall experience and background is, then Bart Simpson and Mickey Mouse should probably put their name in the hat again because we'll elect anyone!
2. we, as Americans, are guilty as being gullible enough to buy anything from this snake-oil used car salesman.
I say I would vote for either gender, any race, any religion or lack thereof, any sexual preference. My hang-up is I want someone who can DO THE JOB RIGHT!
Pot.
Kettle.
directly quoted from JP_offroader
Don't count Palin out yet. I predict that Lord Obama's Nov. 4th showing will be 5 points under his poll numbers. People say one thing and then, when that certain draws shut and it's just them and their conscience in that voting booth, sometimes, just sometimes, well you get the picture.
Sometimes people make stupid decisions and vote for people like bush?
flower, this thread is not about that and you could google just as easily as I, but in the interest of education, here you go:
http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexualit...
(a summary of many studies and theories, note the twin studies, also everything is cited and will take you to more studies)
[1] APA Online. “Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality”. Online. 11 April 2003. Available http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html.
[2] “Biological Basis for Homosexuality.” Online. 8 April 2003. Available
http://www.geocities.com/southbeach/boar...
[3] Bull, James J. and Pease, Craig M. “Biological Correlates of Being Gay” Online. 11 April 2003. Available http://www.utexas.edu/courses/bio301d/To...
http://www.academon.com/lib/paper/91301....
You won't read any of it though b/c your prejudice-colored glasses are too thick. You also could probably never understand that there is a wide spectrum of sexuality out there that doesn't always fit nicely into your constructs.
It's only plagarism, my dear, if I claim to have written it.
http://tinyurl.com/474d2r
There. Does that make you happy?
Get a life, IUW!
(This comment was removed by the Newsminer.com staff. Please see our User Agreement for further information.)
Lost Alaskan,
Sure. You could say that. I liked Bush, year 2001. I disliked Bush 2004-present. Bush was strong and clear during 9/11. He was resolute, confident, and determined.
Bush 04-present lost a lot of credibility, completely turned a blind eye to the domestic challenges this country faced, and really took a few steps too far
You missed the whole point, dog. Look up the meaning of the word perversion. It is an acquired taste for some that view sex as simply a recreational pastime.
So it is "perverted" for one man to love another?
Like I said, flower, you won't read any of it b/c you only see what you want to see.
Do we have to go there?
alaskaflower:
[previous post] "As to your claim that America was not founded on the principles of Christianity, well, you must have slept through U.S. history class in high school."
HUH... see my previous post.
newsreader:
[previous post]"So, for Family_reformer (and any bible literalist or fundamentalist), only god can define morals and those morals were defined in the bible many, many millenia ago. According to their beliefs, we should all be operating by the literal translation of the bible."
One thing you are correct about is that yes, a Biblical fundamentalist relies on the plain, literal translation of the Bible. Anything else would be open to personal interpretation, which is the root cause of the religions that you detest (reference previous post). Biblical interpretation 101 is what does it say... what does it mean (in otherwords what did the writer intend; taking into account grammer usage, phraseology etc.) NOT what does it mean to me. That is not interpreting the Bible, but attempting to apply it to a persons life. Too many men and women have foolish skipped to "what does it mean to me" without knowing what it says. Nothing is hidden in the Bible, any serious seeking student of the Word can read it for themselves. A pope isn't necessary, a priest or pastor is not necessary. Just read it!
The lack of accountability to God and His Word, is the very reason why liberals must push a godless creation - better known as the big bang/evolution. Even though evolution requires more faith to believe than the Biblical account of creation, we are told the lie that it is science, because the acceptance of a literal creation would dictate accountability AND moral absolutes. But man continues to rebel against God and wants to do his own thing. Started with Adam and goes to today. As Solomon wrote "there's nothing new under the sun".
Just some qutoes for all:
In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."
Thomas Jefferson:
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]
As I flew home tonight and listened to the debate,I have to admit I was sickened by several of the responses... but thats a different blog. Nevertheless I rest.
It started with the $300 refund - that is when I said "uh oh". A perfect opportunity give Social Security a whopping shot in the arm. Hell no can't have that. It was the defining moment in the economics of eminent financial disaster. Lower taxes and increase borrowing. Tell me anyone out there how smart is that? There is no way I can spin that to be anything but dumb to the point of being criminal. Or how bout just plain criminal? They robbed us and still want our vote? I have no respect for them. Clean house. I have respect for that.
Some more intersting quotes:
Samuel Johnston:
“It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans (Muslims), pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States. Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President or other high office, [unless] first the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves.
[Elliot’s Debates, Vol. IV, pp 198-199, Governor Samuel Johnston, July 30, 1788 at the North Carolina Ratifying Convention]
*********************
James Madison:
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king;
He will save us.”
[Baron Charles Montesquieu, wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government
See also: pp.241-242 in Teaching and Learning America’s Christian History: The Principle approach by Rosalie Slater]
*********************
Justice Joseph Story:
“ I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. . . There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]
**********
something interesting ...
Article 22 of the constitution of Delaware (1776)
Required all officers, besides taking an oath of allegiance, to make and subscribe to the following declaration:
• "I, [name], do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration."
Wow - looks like our country started with some great men!
OK... couldn't resist... one more
From Ben Franklin:
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
I think we're starting to look like Babel. Maybe these guys were on to something.
But then again, I'm just a singled out Biblical extremest... Like the founding fathers. :)
Good Evening!
alaskaflower, I have never had any interest in anyone of my own sex. My sexuality is not a choice - it is who I am. I can only assume the same is true for most homosexuals. I feel sorry for people who are born homosexual because they live in such an intolerant society such as ours. Even if a particular individual is not born that way, something significant and horrendous likely happened to them when they were a child that pushed them irreversibly in that direction. You cannot judge these people. Besides, its only for God to judge so hang up your pious attitude and pray for forgiveness of your sins. I'll go pray for forgiveness of mine. In the meantime, let us strive to do better.
Hey family_reformer: Perhaps you should pray to God to forgive the sins of our lying governor...because she is full of them.
Family reformer-
Those things were written at a time when African Americans weren't even considered human and were commonly kept as slaves, even the people who wrote what you posted had slaves and women were not allowed to vote or to hold any official position....
You sound like the same idiots who put people to death because they studied the heavens and nature instead of the bible.
The earth is 4.54 billion years old, not 6000 or whatever, if you're going to deny that you might as well deny that the earth is round and revolves around the sun.
Are you mocking God or Palin?
What on earth does God have to do with sound economic policy? Clean house. No Republicans for a good long while. They broke all the piggy banks robbed them and borrowed even more. Please God make them go away!!
Lost Alaskan:
You are right - the freedoms that those men envisioned and stood for, and the Biblical truth that all men are equal in the site of God that both blacks and whites held(hold) to - along with some great black and white folk, are the reason they are free. It was the fruition (spelling?) of these freedoms and morals through the shed blood of many black and white and native americans that there is a greater amount of equality now.
not sure about your conclusion there about the age of the earth. Guess I really don't see how that fits in the picture, or perhaps you do not understand the Biblical account of creation - not sure.
AKlibbylover: Don't quite understand your statement. What good would that do? Or is that just simple mocking? Sarah is responsible to God for her own actions. Although understand that she is a sinner just like I am, and except for the blood of Jesus which has paid the price for our sins, we would be spending eternity in hell all the same.
I will give an account - just as you will give and account. Even if you do not believe - makes no difference, you will give have to give an answer. Example: I can look at Denali all day long and tell you it doesn't exist, but it does. Just as God is clearly seen, whether you believe or not.
family_reformer, you may want to check to see how many of the "great men" you are so wowed by were slaveholders, in addition to being Christians. While you are at it, read up on how slavery, genocide of Indigenous Americans, and the subjugation of women to their husbands and fathers were all rationalized by our "founding fathers" as being the will of God. In your earlier post, you call for a "Biblical standard" being forced upon businesses and homes. I assume you mean that because the Bible is supportive of certain peoples being enslaved that American businesses should reinstitute slavery as our economic system. Or because the Bible argues for the extermination of certain tribes, that American homes and businesses would benefit if we upheld that "Biblical standard."
Ahhh... need to get in bed, but... must reply
sosorry:
This is the point - sound economic policy is rooted in ethical borrowing/lending/work habbits. When the habits are removed and replaced with selfishness and pragmatism we get to the mess we are in now.
lol, you don't understand much do you? family "reformer"...
glow:
"In your earlier post, you call for a "Biblical standard" being forced upon businesses and homes. I assume you mean that because the Bible is supportive of certain peoples being enslaved that American businesses should reinstitute slavery as our economic system."
The issue of slavery did not come up in my writting, it was brought up some time later as a negative point regarding the men who started the country. They were wrong, the Bible neither encourages nor discourages slavery. It was how things worked for thousands of years. Where did it begin to change? HERE in AMerica!!!!! Why because there was freedom grounded in truth for the first time! This is what made our country so great!
The evidence of progressive morality/ethics destroying our country is clear, yet we choose to ignore it.
akjak: "alaskaflower, I have never had any interest in anyone of my own sex. My sexuality is not a choice - it is who I am. I can only assume the same is true for most homosexuals. I feel sorry for people who are born homosexual because they live in such an intolerant society such as ours. Even if a particular individual is not born that way, something significant and horrendous likely happened to them when they were a child that pushed them irreversibly in that direction. You cannot judge these people. Besides, its only for God to judge..."
xxx
I have heard many homosexuals and also many former homosexuals tell of how they became so oriented. Sometimes it was just a quest for a forbidden sexual pleasure. Very often, it was because of a bad relationship with one parent - nothing horrible, but, for example, an overbearing mother might influence a man to seek his own gender, or an overbearing father might influence a woman to seek her own gender. In my own extended family, I have a male relative who was always a Mama's boy, and his father was, to quote another relative, "a mouse," while his mother was overbearing. Always coddled, with an early illness given as an excuse, he became more and more like his mother, and this eventually led to him seeking a male partner to compliment what had become his "feminine" personality.
Homosexuality is not irreversible. There are thousands of former homosexuals who are now "straight" - a "choice" that is a reversal of a former "choice," by their own admission.
I am not judging, akjak. I am simply quoting what God has to say on the matter.
Even if it were true that some people are "born that way," that still does not make it right. Some people may be born with a desire for polygamous relationships. Some people have a strong urge to cheat on their mates. Some people think it is normal to have sex with children. (There is even an organization that is trying ot make that legal.) But these "natural" tendencies do not make these actions right. Self-control is always an option.
I must not understand - ok, I certainly am not all knowing.
But this I know. God removed from country - country goes sour.
By the way - do you know what our country "motto" is? (without doing a search on the internet)
notice the absence of a indefinite article. and unlike writting here, the diety is capitalized.
By the way this was upheld by our supreme court LATELY!
So if you had your way (family "reformer") would you make practicing any other religion besides whatever type of Christianity you practice illegal?
LostAlaskan99712: "So it is "perverted" for one man to love another?"
xxxxx
No, Lost, it is not perverted for one man to love another. But it IS perverted for a man to have sex with another man.
BTW, I'm not the one who said it. Our Creator did.
So princess Palin can say that it is "Gods will" that we are in a "Jihad" with Iraq.......
But it's not "Gods will" for somebody to feel natural, non-perverted, same-as-a-heterosexual type attraction to another human(who only just happens to have the same sex organs)?
Now, how stupid is it to try and say God wants us to murder more than love?
OK everyone, since some folks seem to be insisting we are some kind of theocracy, here's a homework assignment based on the Constitution, the supreme law of the land:
1. How many times is God mentioned in the Constitution? Extra points for saying where.
2. Name each of the Ten Commandments included in the Constitution. Again, extra points for saying where.
Okay, soapbox time. I don't do a lot of this, but just had to get in the mix. I for one will say I do believe in God and consider myself to be a Christian, though probably not in the conventional sense. That being said, I need to let a little fly.
The bible, and forgive me for saying this if it offends you, was written by human beings, people. You can call it God's word and maybe it is. None of us know since we weren't there. I just rarely take something on its word, especially when the word has been translated numerous times and in numerous ways. We're not reading anything close to the original bible, if you ask me. Think about how many "editors" all these texts had before they reached us. Just keep that in mind. I feel we just have to do the best we can with what we've been given and work for the rest.
Now, for the gay "choice" or no choice. Tell me this - if you knew that some behavior of yours was going to have you be the subject of ridicule or worse for your entire life, would you "choose" to do it? Would you choose to carry on this behavior to the detrement of a close-minded family or group of friends? Would you "choose" to be singled out in groups or stereotyped or pointed at, made fun of, joked about, considered disgusting by some? I, for one, would not "choose" that. Yet if there is something that is ingrained in me, such as a sexual preference, it's not something you can just turn off. I'm not speaking from a gay perspective, as I've never felt a pull towards that. I just know that I didn't "choose" my sexual preference and don't think any normal adult does either. I've known people were gay for practically their entire lives, even before I knew what gay was. I honestly think that if it was a choice, people would choose what would get them through life in a less painful and struggle-filled way. Who wouldn't want to be accepted? I know there will always be the debate, but I personally don't feel it's a choice.
PART II :)
And now for feminism. You can use that word to mean so many different things. Do we honestly believe that a woman being able to have the same rights as a man is a detrement to society and families? Do you think that a woman needs a man to tell her what to do or the world will go straight to hell? That just cramps my toes to think that people in this day and age can't get past the fact that women DO have brains and abilities that go further than correctly folding your laundry or cooking your dinner or scrubbing the floor on her knees. I'm guessing that family_reformer's opinion of what kind of job outside the home a woman should have would be one that involves answering a phone and typing at most. Who in the world would think that such hysterical and emotional beings could be capable of logical thinking? What right do we have to think that we would have the power to make decisions that might make an impact that goes further than whether the man of the house will have indigestion that night or not by what we've put in the lovely supper he expects at the table when he returns home from work?
I'm thinking of a quote in the bible, since it seems to be a crutch for so many people. It goes something like, "Judge not lest ye be judged." And yet the people who RELY on the bible every day for their debate material are the ones judging homosexuals, women who make a choice to have an abortion, women who get out of the apron and put on a business suit. Spend a little more time on yourself and a little less on everyone around you. Most of us personally don't care what you're up to as long as you don't concern yourself with what we're up to. Live life and enjoy it. Don't hurt others and don't judge others. It takes all different kinds of us in this world and I'm willing to bet that if you took away even one component of our society that is fairly good and normal, the entire thing would crumble. Be thankful for our differences because that's what keeps us functioning.
Everyone have a good night. I'm now going to make my second attempt at sleep.
First of all the US Constitution is toilet paper to most liberals. They don't believe in "all men are created equal", to them it's more like, to each according to their needs and from each according to their abilities. And the bible? To them believing in the bible is evidence of low intelligence. Not to worry, liberals are basically unhappy people. Problems that are always someone else's fault, morals getting in the way of personal gratification, Bush, global polar melt down, and OMG, the polar bears.
There is something after this life and things will get sorted out, so why worry?
Why worry? because our economy is crap as a result of sending billions of dollars every week to Iraq for a "war" that is more like playtime for our current president, electing the same republican minded people will not improve the situation.
Republican politicians- don't care about you unless you have a million dollar bank account.(if you're a NOT a millionaire and you vote republican then you have been DUPED into thinking that McPalin will give a rats a** about you IF they get elected)
Obamas experience is working DIRECTLY with the people Palin CLAIMS to "represent", McCain has experience in war and not knowing how many houses he owns, Palin has experience brown-nosing her way to where she is now, neither of them had come forward to HELP THEIR COMMUNITY DIRECTLY, as Barack HUSSEIN Obama HAS......
International relations are "great" too, a good reason not to have an aloof billionaire (who doesn't even know how many houses he owns) to represent what is in the best interest for EVERYBODY of the United States.
McCain is a veteran, yet he opposes the G.I. bill along with increased funding for Veterans hospitals.....
(there are more soldiers committing suicide than ever before)
C E O's make millions employees make hundreds, is this not a form of slavery, IF WE ARE EQUAL, should be the SAME FOR ALL
"First of all the US Constitution is toilet paper to most liberals."
Hey roadtrip, is that why your hero, George W. Bush, called it "just a god-damned piece of paper" when it stood in his way of committing all his crimes the last 8 years? You've got a lot of nerve! We need to return to the Constitution, since the Republicans are the ones treating it like toilet paper, not liberals! Get a clue!!!
GODS loves is bisexual, meaning a father loves his son, a mother loves her daughter, and brothers and sisters love eachother, humans tend to pervert everything
roadtrip, wow - there must be over 50 million liberals in this country and you know most of them. Popular guy. I consider myself a moderate rather than a liberal and the party I see tearing the U.S. Constitution to shreds is the party attached to the piece of dog crap that is in the presidential office right now. The so-called compassionate conservative who brought us thousands of dead and maimed in an illegal war for riches. George Bush should get life in prison in a cell next door to his co-conspirators, Dick Cheney, Alberto Gonzales, and others.
Liberals have hoped for a recession to boost support for Lord Obama. Well there's an old eskimo saying, "be careful what you wish for." Are we to tax and regulate our way out of this mess? Yes, lets increase the cost of taxes, fuel, credit, regulation compliance, and health insurance for private business. That is sure to stimulate investment and growth. Want to know with side of the issue you should be on? Casually ask your boss "so, hows cash flow these days?"
The bible doesn't condone or promote slavery, huh?
Funny how the bible thumper's tune has changed once society (YES, MANKIND) changed it's "morals"
Quotations by learned men from the 19th century:
"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America. 1,2
"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral." Rev. Alexander Campbell
"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South Carolina
"The hope of civilization itself hangs on the defeat of Negro suffrage." A statement by a prominent 19th-century southern Presbyterian pastor, cited by Rev. Jack Rogers, moderator of the Presbyterian Church (USA).
"The doom of Ham has been branded on the form and features of his African descendants. The hand of fate has united his color and destiny. Man cannot separate what God hath joined." United States Senator James Henry Hammond. 3
Quotation from the 21st century:
"If we apply sola scriptura to slavery, I'm afraid the abolitionists are on relatively weak ground. Nowhere is slavery in the Bible lambasted as an oppressive and evil institution: Vaughn Roste, United Church of Canada staff.
Overview:
The quotation by Jefferson Davis, listed above, reflected the beliefs of many Americans in the 19th century. Slavery was seen as having been "sanctioned in the Bible." They argued that:
Biblical passages recognized, controlled, and regulated the practice.
The Bible permitted owners to beat their slaves severely, even to the point of killing them. However, as long as the slave lingered longer than 24 hours before dying of the abuse, the owner was not regarded as having committed a crime, because -- after all -- the slave was his property. 4
Paul had every opportunity to write in one of his Epistles that human slavery -- the owning of one person as a piece of property by another -- is profoundly evil. His letter to Philemon would have been an ideal opportunity to vilify slavery. But he wrote not one word of criticism.
Jesus could have condemned the practice. He might have done so. But there is no record of him having said anything negative about the institution.
[All info taken from the very first site that google pooped up --
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bi...
And now, some biblical quotes on slavery --
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
Even in the love and brotherhood new testament --
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
[All quotes taken from evilbible.com]
What the Bible says about Women's Rights
Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Isaiah 3:12
As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 14:34-36
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Ephesians 5:22-24
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Colossians 3:18
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.
1 Peter 3:1
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands.
How can these possibly be construed as promoting equality between the sexs?
[Scriptures taken from http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_a...
Domination or death for all non believers --
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
[Once again, from evilbible.com]
Oh, and by the way, our country's original motto was "E Pluribus Unum". It was that way for over 180 years. It wasn't until the rabid McCarthyists took control in the 1950s that it was perverted by the religious right to mention god.
The same applies to our money and our pledge of allegiance. They started out just fine, then were modified by the religious right when they had the chance and the power to do so.
Here's a nice Heinlein quote for ya on the subject --
"It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics."
So, to bring all of this full circle, this is the reason that Palin absolutely should NOT be elected. We know she wants her religion to pervade the entire government. We know what happens when religious extremists gain power and control of nations. I urge you all...
**** VOTE OBAMA ****
**** VOTE OBAMA ****
**** VOTE OBAMA ****
**** VOTE OBAMA ****
Thank you, newsreader.
"We know she wants her religion to pervade the entire government. We know what happens when religious extremists gain power and control of nations."
And pray tell newsreader, what will Obama's religious views do if and when he becomes your president?
Wait a Minute!
--------------------------------------
Prospector: Governor Palin was quoting President Lincoln. It's no surprise that so many ill-educated or ill-meaning Americans would misinterpret her (and his) words. For the dunder-heads, this prayer is meant as an admonishment that we "pray that we are doing God's will".
--------------------------------------
You FELL for that? McCain staffers had to search unbelievable amounts of archives to come up with something that would clumsily apply to her blatant abuse of religion to further her agenda. Her liberties with God's will compared to Lincoln's speech is nonsensical because she never knew it existed.
It makes about as much sense as her defending McCain's 'verbiage' in saying that the Fundamentals of America's Economy is Strong (right before the devastating Wall Street crash) as confusion on the media elite's part that he meant "the American Workforce, our ingenuity is strong." Who is going to argue against that? "Exceptional" jingoism and patriotism is her saving grace for lack of substance.
Quoting Reagan is just another tactic of the McCain Campaign's efforts to liken her 'rocket science' executive experience to a national newcomer (but polished) Governor whom became a President with a legacy. She is grasping at crutches to compare herself to Reagan, with his play on John Winthrop's poem about America being a "shining city on a hill." Reagan was speaking about the evils of Medicare, whereas Winthrop worried about the dangers of moral failure, and the degree to which such failure in the New World would discredit both the Christian religion and self-government in the eyes of the Old World.
since when has god ever had a say in anything we do. who cares.
aksunshine-
Obama never claimed to be doing "Gods work", like terrorists, certain serial muderers and Sarah Palin HAVE........
I believe McCain is right about the fundamentals of the economy, it's the crooks on wall street and corporations that are the problem
serial muderer; one who does not know what they are talking about
lost - have you read Obama's speech at Selma? Read that than tell me that. Go to www.suntimes.com Chicago paper and read the whole speech.
Obama's Selma speech. Text as delivered.
By Lynn Sweeton March 5, 2007
http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/03/......
Chicago Sun Times article regarding "SELMA, ALA.--From the pulpit of the historic Brown Chapel A.M.E. church, White House hopeful Barack Obama talks about the job of the "Joshua generation" and his own claim to a place in the civil rights movement." March 4, 2007
Obama's religious views do not concern me in the least.
Why? Because he has been exposed, throughout his life, to many religions and beliefs.
As far as I've been able to determine, that exposure has broadened his horizons and allowed him to be enlightened as to the variety of religions and religious ideals in the world. Palin has had no such exposure (as far as I've been able to determine).
The simple fact that I've heard that one of Obama's parents is an atheist is really all that I needed to know. The rest just strengthens my belief that I have nothing to worry about when it comes to Obama's beliefs, while I have MANY things to worry about when it comes to Palin's beliefs.
For all of you beating us all up with the Bible:
Have any of you read the orginal versions,
Old Testament in Aramaic and New Testament in Greek?
There have been many versions and alterations and
interpretations over the centuries. What you think a verse
means may not be what it was meant to mean.
Before you consider yourself some expert on bible interpetation,
study in an UNBIASED environment in the originals.
Otherwise you are spouting many baseless untruths and
misinterpretations. And yes, I have done so myself.
It is easy to find in the bible a justification for anything.
And if you claim to be a true believer of the bible, you
cannot pick and choose. That means you cannot wear cotton
with wool, and all those other oddities. You can't justify
pointing to one verse as true and relevant and another as not.
That is hypocrisy - the one trait that really angered JC.
I was going to reply to aksunshine but newsreader "stole" the words right out of my mouth, lol.
I concur with newsreaders post....
I respect ones ability and willingness to understand and accept everything around them rather than being ignorant of everything except what they already "know" about the world, you don't learn anything by assuming and judging.
aksunshine --
Thank you so much for that link! What an inspiring speech Obama gave on that day! Totally awesome. Now, more than ever, I want this guy running our country!
Obama, in speaking from a pulpit, does not claim to be doing "god's work" or claim that prayers to god are needed for contract negotiations. He does not claim (or elude or hint) that he knows god's will or that this damned war for oil in Iraq is god's will. In short, Obama, speaking in a church, still says NOTHING AT ALL THAT BOTHERS ME. I read in no extremism, no blind devotion, nothing bad...
So, again, thanks, that was an excellent speech from man that will be the next president of the great USA!
ArcticWriter: "God uses the King James." I read that on the sign at the Bible Baptist Church. And as a legislator in Washington State once said during a debate on an English-only bill, "If English was good enough for Jesus, then it's good enough for me." Can't get more logical than that.
OMG Dr. C.
That's the funniest thing I've read in a while, man!
Both of those quotes are absolutely priceless!
Typifying the "logic" that these folks use.
I'm gonna be laughing about those for weeks!
You are quite welcome. No, he does not claim to be doing God's work, but he does claim that through out the times of Moses, Abraham, Isiah and Joshua that prayers to God are needed to stay strong, have courage, and LEAD to a promise land. He speaks of those leaders in the Bible who were given instructions from God to LEAD the people and to pray. Those leaders who inspired him to be what he is today.
It is a MOST INSPIRING speech, indeed. My point in bringing it out is that while Palin has said 'if it's God's will' and everyone thinks this is bad? Obama speaks here of being the next generation of Joshua to carry out what God has planned would everyone think it's bad?
It is interesting to compare ones view of what a Christian would do.
There can be no comparison between Obama using the bible properly (as a source of inspirational stories) and Palin using the bible as a crutch (make claims of knowing god's will or the 'correct' interpretation, take creationism as "fact" that replaces science, etc.)
Yep, I said that. Obama was using the bible PROPERLY in this case. It really should be used as any collection of myths and fables - as anecodotes and inspirations.
NOT AS A SCIENCE BOOK, LAW BOOK, OR ANY USE THAT CLAIMS ABSOLUTE TRUTH!
As soon as we give the bible credit for being the absolute authority on ANYTHING, we are abandoning reason and the ability to question. And, that's got to be the greatest "sin" of all.
alaskaflower said:
"You missed the whole point, dog. Look up the meaning of the word perversion. It is an acquired taste for some that view sex as simply a recreational pastime".
I certainly did miss the point and still do. My post that the FDN jerked for reasons unknown, other than it might offend the holy roller, talking-in-tongue crowd, was on the topic of "choice" that those types claim the gays have.
Like I've said, I've never had a choice... I like girls...I'm a male.
I was asking you if you are a women, are you confronted with this 'choice'? I doubt it because it is utter nonsense to believe this silliness.
You don't have to go to any authority to figure this out, just check your own mind out. Trust your own thinking, that is what God gave it to you for.
If you are a guy, ask yourself.. do guys turn me on?
If you are a women, ask youself...do women turn me on?
If you answer in the affirmative, then you are gay.
If you don't, you are straight.
It is the easiest thing in the world to see where this 'choice' crap is religious drival.
It actually irritates me for someone to imply that being gay is a 'choice' because that says I'm gay but fighting off the urge, which is absurd.
dog
All religion is blind faith. No one can PROVE anything about what was said because the speakers are long dead. Religious beliefs came out of the most ignorant time in human development. We see modern day oddities that, held up to ancient times, would be unexplanable and "godly" to some. The countless perversions of all beliefs move people further away from faith in anything. The principle teachings are sound. Do unto others and all that. Being a good person is within all of us but not because of one reglion or another.
Alright, fine, gods a pro-choice, homo, Muslim that supports Lord Obama. I will give you that. So, did any one other than me notice that the big O confused the development of the computer with the development of the Internet at yesterdays debate? He used the governments involvement in the development of the Internet, he said computer, to justify the governments involvement in developing new technology. So now we have nationalised finance, we want to nationalise health care and he wants to nationalise product development. Add central planning and the abolition of religion and, my fellow comrades, we are there. The "Union of the Amerikan Socialist Republics", or UASR for short.
The founding fathers of this great nation would be ashamed of us. We have Freedom OF Religion - not Freedom FROM Religion. Separation of State and Church meant that there would be no State Approved Religion or Church, like the Church of England. Practically every building in Washinton, DC including the Supreme Court recognizes that a belief in God has always been part of this nation's heritage. You can now read the Bible in any jail but not in our schools. We know where McCain and Palin stand on these American issues.
Obama is not telling the truth about his associations with known terrorists and he is not telling the American people the truth about his hidden agenda. He is by far the most liberal person in US politics but his hidden agenda goes far beyond that. If only 10% of what Hannity had on his show about Obama is true that's enough to eleminate him from the Presidency.
Do a search on the internet about FBI and CIA requirements for the different levels of Secret Clearance. Obama could not past the test for Level One Security - let alone Top Level Security that the President has to have.
When America allows a person to run for President, let alone a person who sits in a church for 20 years listening to a preacher who says,"G-- D--- America we are at beginning of the end of this great nation. And if anyone actually believes that Obama never heard or does not know and believes exactly what his preacher was saying, I have a bridge to sell you cheap!
We all want changes in our government. And either party elected will make radical changes. But do you want this change lead by someone you really don't know and won't even let his college records be opened and is not honest about his recent associations with Ayers, not just when he was 8 years old, and the most liberal Senator we have ever had. Or do you want someone who is soft spoken, straight, kind, and although has made some mistakes along the way, has unquestionably the interest of America at heart. Obama is a great orator. And given the bias of the moderators in the debates they protect him by not asking about those associations. He is a great speaker, emotionally charged and a pathological liar. He does believe what he says.
Obama has a hidden agenda folks. We had better see it before it is too late. Take off the blinders and tell me who Obama really is? You think the crash of Wall Street is bad? You haven't seen anything yet. Your basic liberties are at stake. Does anyone out there on this thread really know who he is? I don't think so. There are those who do and they are not our friends.
May God bless America and have mercy on us.
CPW
What is Obama's "hidden agenda?" You who seem to know so much but won't spell it out should be ashamed. Far too many "leaders" have ruled through fear....ENOUGH! If he is so bad, do you really think he and he alone can change our everyday lives and beliefs so easily? The President cannot act on his own without the complete support of many others. I won't live in a country that cowers in fear just because a few blindly believe one over another and the only way to feel safe is to perpetuate the fear. My grandfather lived in fear from Nazi Germany. He fled to this country to be free. Had Germany adopted a democracy, Hitler could never have accomplished what he did through fear.
You had best fear. The patriot act has undermined the Posse Comitatus act. Freedom used to mean the ability to try, fail, and try again but no more. The gov has now made law that it will oversee our prosperity, or the lack there of. Cabinet heads and the Supreme Court will define that prosperity. Lord Obama will oversee the transition to a new relationship between the government and the "people", or, depending on your outlook, subjects. Will the military follow orders and act against their own people? You want to take that chance?
Alaskaflower; thankyou for standing for the Word of God and God Himself .. I appreciate your desire to serve despite the mocking. They will get their own reward. We don't have to worry unless we turn our backs also.
Keep up the good work... serve the Lord with all your mind, heart and soul and eventually we will sadly see those that have rejected, cursed,mocked and spit in Gods face get their just reward... we know what happened to Jesus when he was arrested...we know what happened to the people in Noahs day..we know what happened to the people in Sodom and Gomorrah , even Lots own sons and married daughters and I watched a person on real film mock God in a tent out amongst Grizzly bears when it was storming out and it wasnt very long after that the bear he loved so much came and ate him and his girlfriend...Gods justice will be served..He will not be mocked and all those that mock Him will get their just reward...I just feel so bad for them because I wish they didnt have to suffer it :( .... we have seen this over and over throughout the ages... let us just REST in Gods plans. We have nothing to worry about if we stay close to the Lord and His Word and His will. amen
and don't stop proclaiming the Word of the Lord...You will see your just reward..stay close to Him and pray for those that are lost and blind and just flat mixed up.
have a great winter :)
newsreader,
I agree that if we abandon our ability to reason, then pretty much all hope is lost.
However, please PROVE to me that there is a correct way and incorrect way to use a Bible. In religion, or lack of religion, you nor I can prove anything. That is the irony of religion. That is the pinnacle of faith, and also the pinnacle of atheism.
Our government is made up of ELECTED representatives from each State. In effect, WE are the government. If we allow wrong doing, we condone it. I'm glad for those whose faith is so strong that they live a pure life but don't spew falsehoods on the rest of us. NO ONE WILL EVER BE CERTAIN WHAT LIES BEYOND THE GRAVE. I believe we get one chance and it's best to life it with dignity and moral conviction. What happens afterwards is something you can never tell about.
CPW151, Great post.
Newsreader,
John Adams said, "The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."
If you really want to know the TRUTH about America's Christian heritage, go to http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArt...
You will find hundreds of quotes of our founding fathers with references so you can verify them.
Taters,
"Obama was only a child when inducted into the Muslim world, he can't really be a Christian because 'once a Muslim, always a Muslim.'"
I am a proud OIF veteran. When we arrived in theater, we received a brief about the Muslims we would encounter. They told us DO NOT repeat anything they tell you in Arabic because they will try to "trick" you into saying "the confession." After you say this you are considered to be a Muslim and CANNOT rescind it. They would try to kill you first.
That being said...if Obama spent time in a Muslim school, do you think he was never once led into "the confession"? I don't know the answer, but it is an interesting question.
family reformer-The country was not founded on absolute moral standards. It was founded with slavery and genocide, both of which are immoral no matter what the Bible says.
GDogg- Jesus kicked the capitalists out of His Father's church, but forgave the tax collector.
Palin referred to Iraq as "God's plan." Meaning that God is going to back a a greedy capitalist nation that murders over a million innocent people so our oil companies could get no-bid, billion dollar contracts.
Reverend Wright is a black, retired Marine who fought for a nation that forbid him the right to step foot in white restaurants and use white water fountains, etc.. Is it any wonder he may have a bit of resentment and a rather different view than a white person the same age?
lagirl - "Palin confirmed that the book banning thing was false"?! And OJ Simpson confirmed that he didn't murder his ex-wife and her boyfriend! The town of Wasilla confirmed the story was true when they stood behind the librarian and made Palin back down and destroy the termination letter she had already written.
Henry- Article I of the Constitution talks about the VP's tie-breaker vote in the Senate, so Biden wasn't wrong about quoting it.
akflower- Dick Cheney IS the most dangerous, worst VP in history. Aaron Burr only killed one guy while Cheney has murdered over a million with his lies about "mushroom clouds." He's made millions off the invasion from his stock options from Halliburton.
Some gays are born and some are "made." I have lesbian friends who were raped by their fathers when they were babies and little girls. That was enough to send them into the arms of other women because they were too traumatized to be with men. I have other friends who were butch from birth, and gay friends who were feminine from birth. We're all different. I'm straight, but I'm not narrow.
lostalaskan-The "murder over love" thing sure describes America. Sex (love)is obscene. We never see genitals on TV, but brains splattered on walls and rape and massive violence is "entertainment". Janet Jackson's exposed breast caused an act of Congress within a month! Sally Struthers said in 1980 or so that "In America, if a man fondles a woman's breast we rate it X, but if he cuts it off, we rate it R. We embrace violence and abhor love. How sick is that?
roadtrip-The Constitution is already USED toilet paper to George Bush, who called it a "GD piece of paper." Why do you deny that and insist that liberals will take more rights than this administration, that has passed laws that have us just about at the Fourth Reich?! Investment and growth from the top is a myth. They KEEP as much money as they can. Isn't that kind of evident now as we head down the financial ruin road? Ask the CEO of Lehman Brothers if you can have some of his $17,000 an HOUR wage. Bet not. It trickles on, not down.
newsreader- your post lists just a few of the reasons I left Christianity. I do like most of Jesus' teachings, but the rest of the stuff is pure bull. Why else would there be so many religions, with everybody claiming theirs is the only true one? Either they're all right, or they're all wrong. I chose to believe the latter because it makes the most logical sense. The Bible was "ghost written."
lost alaskan-See the Keating Five and watch McCain squirm when they reprimand him for being the most involved politician in the huge Savings and Loan scandal/bail-out.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/ke...
He should have gone to prison with Keating. Check out his friendship with Phil "deregulator" Graham to see why we're in such dire straights right now. Both parties had hands in the deregulation though. This video is put out by the Obama campaign, but it shows Congressional hearings, which are pretty hard to fake and/or speculate. Where is this on the mainstream news? Man of honor, my a**!
CPW151-Obama's "known terrorist ties" were with a man who's a tenured college professor. Obama didn't know him when he was eight, Ayres committed his crimes when Obama was eight. Check out this video of the American-hating "terrorist" Palin was pallin' around with, and check out her whacked out pastor as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3-WTy8cN... Her pastor does a "laying of hands" on her to bring money to her campaign, which is a violation of the Constitution. The IRS has threatened to bust liberal churches for teaching peace, but they never bust war-mongering churches like Palin's, who's other pastor actually told his congregation if they voted for Kerry, their salvation was in question! No religious coercion there!
Dennis Kucinich is more liberal than Obama. Sean Hannity doesn't call himself a journalist. He calls himself an entertainer so he can LIE without being held accountable to journalistic standards.
My friends, McCain is not a soft-spoken man. His temper is legendary. My friends, he's abusive and dangerous. This first video is shocking, but there were at least 24 witnesses to his actions that the police didn't do anything about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1AWeZrdx...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp...
Truth4U- Obama has never been a Muslim. He attended school in Indonesia which is a Muslim country. It's like saying a person goes to school in America is a Christian because America is a Christian nation. The Muslim thing is a LIE. It's been proven.
McCain's "hidden agenda" scares me WAY more than Obama's! That man is WHACKED! See above films. Even right-wing extremist Pat Buchanan says. "McCain makes Cheney look like Ghandi." My friends, we'd all better hope and pray that McCainiac and "End-Times" Woman don't get anywhere near that button!
doris posts:"CPW151-Obama's "known terrorist ties" were with a man who's a tenured college professor. Obama didn't know him when he was eight, Ayres committed his crimes when Obama was eight."
And he still knows him today. He started his political career in Ayers home. He has served on recent boards with him. Ayers in 2001 said that he wished he had done more. College professors are probably the most single group of liberal people in America. His connections with terrorits continues today and want to tell us where his money came from to finance his college education? Not US student loans. You didn't respond to Obama not letting his college records out either. Have you read his books? I have. They are scary. We will have a "democratic" congress and a "democratic" President if BHO is elected. What got us into this Wall Street mess started years ago by the democratic president and clinched by Clinton, a democratic President. Do you want to have the federal government run your life because they can do a better job of it than you can. Perhaps for you they can. The German people under Hitler thought that he could as well. And BTW, you want to buy that bridge?
CPW
Talk about the blind leading the blind, leading the blind. Yes, I meant it that way. Newsreader leading, Dr. C., leading goats. Hard headed billy goats. We all die, your time will come. I thought you guys new something about religion, boy was I wrong. Who do you think God was talking to when he said, let us make man in "our" image? Oh, that's right, you don't believe in God. So what did you evolve from, monkeys or slugs?
frogs
Actually it was single celled organisms, after millions of years of comet impacts to make the oceans needed to start evaporating and creating an environment where plants and other primitive life could start making the atmosphere we breathe today, more oxygen from the plants made for bigger "smarter" animal species....
JP_offroader says
"I agree that if we abandon our ability to reason, then pretty much all hope is lost.
However, please PROVE to me that there is a correct way and incorrect way to use a Bible. In religion, or lack of religion, you nor I can prove anything. That is the irony of religion. That is the pinnacle of faith, and also the pinnacle of atheism."
Since we are dealing with squishy, philosophical issues, no PROOF can really exist, now can it?
However, I feel that you've answered your own question. If we agree that by abandoning our ability to reason pretty much all hope is lost, then I would submit that uses of the bible that require one to abandon reason (i.e. fundamentalist/literalist translations) are incorrect while uses as a source of fables and myths (that can teach lessons) would be the correct use.
I just love all of the thinly veiled hellfire and damnation threats inherent in the christian's posts when they realize they can't argue coherently ---
"They will get their own reward"
"we will sadly see those that have rejected, cursed,mocked and spit in Gods face get their just reward.."
"Gods justice will be served..He will not be mocked and all those that mock Him will get their just reward..."
"We all die, your time will come."
That's that brotherly love in action, doncha know! (sorry, I guess I'm channeling Palin)
KS says "Who do you think God was talking to when he said, let us make man in "our" image?"
Good question, is God a schizophrenic or something?
Or does he just refer to himself in the plural for fun?
Oh dang, there I go, mocking god again. I'm waiting for my reward...
And, for those of you that have been long time reader of the blogs ---
I'M STILL ALIVE!!!
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
And actually we BRANCHED OFF then from APES, not monkeys....
Or maybe Apes have evolved to be a wiser more "wilder-hardy" version of humans, because I've seen some animals use more common sense and reason than several people I've known, or have read about.
newsreader,
You keep trying to lump me in with the rest of the religious fanatics here. I am as far from a fanatic as you are. I know you don't have time to address everyone that disagrees with your mission to tell the world the truth but let me ask you, what was the first book ever put into print? Hint, it wasn't one of your history books. BTW I do know who God was talking to and if you do a little more reading and studying, you just might find out. You're not near as smart as you think you are. But you keep trying. Even a blind hog roots up an accorn ever now and then.
So if something is "printed" that automatically means it's true?
The bible was written by HUMANS, "God" didn't sit down with a quill and write it himself.
KS --
It is you who how portrays themselves as a fanatic with all of your homophobic and "doom and gloom" posts about the end of days. Sometimes, it seems like your are just itching and hoping for the end of the world so that all of us "sinners" will burn in a lake of fire. You have even claimed that natural disasters are the result of man not following god's laws. That point of view is so whacked that any half way objective observer would swear you were a fanatic. Again, not my portrayal, but your own posts.
As far as the first book ran through a printing press, I believe that would be the bible. However, ever heard of the Book of Gilgamesh? It is where the flood myth in your bible was plagiarized from. How about Hercules? Remember, the Son of Zues, in human form? Goes through lots and trials and tribulations, helps out the people, and, in the end, ascends to heaven to be with his father? Sound familiar? Hmm, I wonder where the christians plagiarized that Christ myth from?
I could go on...
Isn't it a little arrogant to claim to know God's plan, especially in reference to a GAS PIPELINE and your own political agendas? I'm surprised more people aren't upset at this woman USING God as an excuse for her own ambitions. Unless someone could point me to the scripture that refers to fossil fuels/Alaska/AGIA/Transcanada.
Quoth roadtrip: "First of all the US Constitution is toilet paper to most liberals. They don't believe in "all men are created equal", to them it's more like, to each according to their needs and from each according to their abilities... Liberals have hoped for a recession to boost support for Lord Obama."
I challenge you to show a shred of evidence in support of any of those claims. And before you even try it, "Rush (or Coulter, Hannity, Ingraham, O'Reilly, Savage, etc.) said so" does not count as evidence. Think on this, please: If you have to misrepresent your opponents to make your points, perhaps your points are not worth making.
newsreader,
Computers are a wonderful source of information, don't ya think? The Epic of Gilgamesh. I skimmed thru some of it and believe me, that's more than it deserves. A fictional book found in a library in Neneveh. The folks who worshipped a fish god. It seems strange that you would believe something of fiction and reject the Bible. It does make sense that book be found where Jonah was wittnessed to have come from the mouth of a great fish. So where do you suppose the people of Neneveh got their ideas for the Epic? Nice try, but you'll have to do better.
It doesnt matter. Anyone who would judge someone based on their religion is ridiculous. Same thing goes with race, sex, sexual orientation, or otherwise.
I really worry about the direction in which this country is headed.
I guess you missed the dates on those stories -
Genesis - Written between 950 - 450 BC
Gilgamesh - Written between 2150 - 2000 BC
So, who had the idea first? And who borrowed from whom?
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