McBeath: Palin held her own against Biden
Published Thursday, October 2, 2008
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Stumble It!ST. LOUIS - Republican nominee for vice president Sarah Palin held her own in a debate against Joe Biden tonight, reversing expectations many had about her experience and ability on a national stage, said Jerry McBeath, University of Alaska Fairbanks political science professor.
He's calling the debate a draw. Both candidates tallied debate points, but Palin "had a higher hill to climb," he said.
The Alaska governor made a few errors but no glaring gaffes, he said.
Notably, she misspoke in response to a question posed by moderator Gwen Ifill about the nature of the vice presidency.
Palin said the vice president presides over the Senate and supports a president's policies.
The vice president presides over the Senate in a purely honorific way, McBeath pointed out - as did Biden. The office acts only in case of a tie vote.
Both candidates delivered on other pieces important to voters, McBeath said. They clearly defined what their roles would be if elected, thus demonstrating what each would add to the top of the tickets.
Biden promised to carry out Barack Obama's promises on a list of issues.
"I would follow through with Barack's policies because in essence I agree with every major initiative," he said.
Palin said she, too, would "continue the good work" John McCain is committed to, including bringing government back to on the side of the people and attacking corruption on Wall Street and within Washington.
She brushed off any concerns that she and McCain don't agree on some subjects, including whether to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
"What do you expect? We're a team of mavericks," she said. "He has never asked me to check my opinions at the door."
McBeath said Palin did well to avoid issuing lengthy answers delving deep into policy. She stuck to principles, which voters want to hear. While debaters earn tallies for points well made, voters watching from home want to be persuaded.
"She was feisty, energetic, down to earth, and she connected with people," McBeath said.
Alaskans can be proud of Palin's performance, McBeath said, noting he probably won't vote for her but is himself proud. She represented the state's issues, highlighting energy needs, and didn't embarrass the state like some thought she might.
The campaign focus should now turn back to Obama and McCain, but McBeath hopes the campaign will "unleash" Palin and send her to the swing states, where she could further connect with voters.
Community Discussion
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Ok this "maverick" stuff is getting old
Sarah has given Alaska the kind of exposure that nothing else in our 50 year history has.
It is a cliché, but you can not buy the kind of positive publicity Sarah has given Alaska over the last two months.
McBeath is falling into the same trap most pundits have, judging Palin against the impossibly low expectations for HER rather than against the expectations people have for a Vice-President of the United States.
People expected her to basically just stand there drooling on herself for an hour and a half, barely able to get a full sentence out the entire time. Because she didn't do that, the pundits are predictably saying she "held her own."
That's nonsense.
People who are VOTING have a different set of expectations. Voters don't just want Palin to do better than Palin of last week; they want to see who actually looks like the best Vice-President. By that standard, there was NO CONTEST. Biden absolutely wiped the floor with her. Biden spoke intelligently and in detail about every single issue, and he answered the questions he was asked.
Palin did a bunch of cutesy, obvious question-dodging, even bragging about it, and the pundits fell for it. I don't think very many voters will. They didn't see her demonstrate any knowledge of the issues. They saw her flirt with the camera and recite memorized lines. If they were looking for a newscaster, then they're likely to vote for her. But I don't see how anyone looking for a Vice-President -- someone to do one of the hardest jobs in the world -- could have been impressed by her antics.
Only he lied about 9 times!!!
He is proud of her? Nice way of kissing up to her, I guess. God I'm glad I'm in a position where I don't have to suck up like that.
After hearing way, way to much about her the past month, I hope the State Legislature goes back over the gas deal giving the Canadian consortium the 1/2 billion. I'm sure after seeing queenie exposed, we got shafted big time in that venture.
More than held her own. Dominated in a hostile environment created by the moderator, Gwen Ifill, who has a vested economic interest in seeing Obama Elected.
Thanks Being an Alaskan Sarah, the real 49ers love you.
I thought Gwen Ifill did a very good job as moderator. I didn't notice a hostile environment at all. Can you give an example.
I thought Palin did okay but certainly not great. About a C grade.
Just off the top of my head. It was one of the first questions, I think about what prior platforms the candidates would change. Palin answered, well I've only been at it 5 weeks, so not too many. Ifill slips in, "well I still don't think you answered the question."
Later in the debate, I think it was the Secretary of state question, answered brilliantly by Palin, Ifill turns to Biden, and he starts answering about John McCain sitting down with the leaders of Spain, a total dodge. No snide remark from Ifill for Biden. I had the opportunity to watch the debate from several camera angles that did not necessarily make the air, and I saw at least one instance where this Ifill person actually rolls her eyes at Palin, in a blatant attempt to bully the Alaskan.
Anyways not that I have to answer to you, but there are a couple of examples for you.
El Diablo has spoken
Asian stocks fall on worries US slowdown will drag down global economic growth.
Yeah, I wish WASH would stop talking and go back to work.
Hey sourdough, maybe if Palin DID have the experience she could have answered it correctly?
Of course you don't have to answer to me. Absolutely no reason to be so defensive. I just asked a simple question. I will look for the examples you pointed out when I watch the debate again.
And actually El Diablo hasn't spoken, written, yes, spoken, no.
FINALLY!! For all of those who absolutely hate the "El Diablo has Spoken" sig line, it's just been a bit, and now it's gone. You can thank Wait_for_it for finally pointing out its lack of logic. Seriously it's gone, but I'm glad to have been able to irritate ya'll for a little while. I'll be back with something new in a week or two.
Weakening, Witchery, Seems the Sheep are Gathering. Set the Trap, Hypnotize, Now You Follow!
Jerry McBeath is a University of Alaska Fairbanks political science professor? And he thinks the debate is a draw? If I had taken one of this classes I'd be pretty upset! Sure, Palin did better than her lowered expectations. But her answers were shallow and staged and as someone said two or three days ago, imagine cramming for a final exam for a class you did not take.
No, Setec, the pundits are not saying she "held her own." Well.....o.k....the pundits at Fox are saying that and more, literally gushing over her performance! But virtually everyone else is saying Biden won the debate, including several ex-Bush officials. One Republican senior member of congress is saying that "the election has basically been lost over the last couple of weeks."
It's over, folks. Current tallys show Obama/Biden with 260 electoral votes, only ten shy of the 270 needed to win. McCain/Palin have only 163 votes. Time to start pulling together and stand behind the leaders who will begin to pull us out of this morass.
Hey hockeyfan, I personally am glad that Palin doesn't have experience in going back on her word, as that's what the question was about. Good point man.
wait wait wait...she had stated, before her VP nomination that she doesn't FULLY agree with the Iraq war, but now that she's Mcains running mate, she's COMPLETELY for it. Wish it was that easy for everyone to change their minds.
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The only thing I remember is Palin admitting the war in Iraq was about oil, not that she didn't fully support it. That was back in August. But if a tool like yourself says its true, it must be.
If Biden had displayed the same condescending, patronizing attitude toward her that she did toward him he would have been crucified as being sexist. I thought her performance was almost child-like. She did a good job memorizing the talking points, but she avoided answering most of the questions. I wondered at times if she even heard what was asked. She talked about the "leader of Israel and Hamas," but didn't name either of them. I found that rather telling. She got the name of the U.S. commander in Afghanistan wrong. It's not McClellan, It's McKiernan. And even though she insisted, twice, that he didn't say the Iraq strategy wouldn't work in Afghanistan, he did say just that this morning. Quote, "The new top U.S. commander in Afghanistan yesterday said more American troops are urgently required to combat a worsening insurgency, but he stated emphatically that no Iraq-style "surge" of forces will end the conflict there. Afghanistan is not Iraq," said Gen. David D. McKiernan. I guess they didn't have time today to teach her that one. Maybe she should have read one of those newspapers and magazines she couldn't give katie Couric the names of.
This is off topic but I'm curious...what is the purpose of calling somebody a "tool" is this context?
You just have to be disrespectful to someone in oder to sleep at night?
Your story said: "The Alaska governor made a few errors but no glaring gaffes, he (McBeath) said. Notably, she misspoke in response to a question posed by moderator Gwen Ifill about the nature of the vice presidency. Palin said the vice president presides over the Senate and supports a president's policies.The vice president presides over the Senate in a purely honorific way, McBeath pointed out - as did Biden. The office acts only in case of a tie vote."
I fear it is the misguided professor, not Governor Palin, who "misspoke." Only honorific? The Trans Alaska Pipeline
Authorization Act of 1974, the only act in the history of Congress enacted to authorize the construction of a pipeline, the costliest privately-financed project in history up to that time, passed the U.S. Senate only after the vice president, Spiro Agnew, cast the tie-breaking vote. Without that "honorific" act there would be no trans Alaska oil pipleline as we know it.
And yes, Gwen Ifill's moderation, though nuanced, was clearly biased, by selecting and posing questions which played to what she knew were Biden's strengths and Palin's weaknesses. An appaling conflict of interest for a journalist. If McCain/Palin win, Ifill's book, scheduled to be released on presidential inauguration day next year, will tank.
Joe LaRocca
Nice history lesson jlar555...honestly no sarcasm intended, I did not know that piece of Alaska history.
As to Ifill's book tanking, in this day and age of digital everything, who actually reads the wall full of these book available at any mega bookseller? It seems like anyone who has ever had 15 minutes of TV fame releases one of these things but has anyone you know actually bought and read one?
How could you select questions that would play up Palin's Strengths?
You could ask who won the Stanley Cup last year.
cor13 - "Only he lied about 9 times!!!"
who? links? or just your personal supposition? not really 9... though more than 0... same with palin... why no palin "lie-count"? hmm?
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/...
honestly i thought the debate was pretty mellow and had no HUGE *zingers* or obvious flubs. boring really.
palins answer on the mortgage bankruptcy question i thought was a horrible ad-lib of various talking points with zero substance. surprised i haven't seen more talking heads commenting on it. it was ridiculously bad. had enough keywords to confuse the populous and seem 'smart'... but in real analysis... it was ridiculous.
i also tired of her 'gee golly shucks' homespun folksiness. it was a bit overdone. to the point of absurdity really. bidens 'home depot' (come on!) and home-town scranton comments were not much better... but at least he didn't preface *every single answer* with some nonsense 'aw shucks' tundrabilly anecdotes.
overall... palin overperformed given the low bar she personally set. not going to call it a 'win' because it wasn't. but she performed better than i would have guessed... based on recent performance anyway.
however the winking and nose-creasing was a bit much. i'm not a golden retriever puppy picked up from the pound.
her saying she was a "middle class normal american family" is a *bit* of a stretch. most middle class normal families i know don't have $1,200,000 in assets. not that i don't think biden isn't the same... he didn't portray himself that way though. he wasn't playing that card.
the closing monologue mentioning bringing 'main street wasilla' to DC... i don't know about the rest of you... but that is literally the LAST thing this country needs. think about it. unless you are incredibly simple-minded and single-issue voters... 'main street wasilla' would RUIN the country.
her misunderstanding of the powers of the VP was a bit disconcerting as well. especially for a party that (supposedly) prides itself on pure constitutionality.
surprised about the agreement on the same-sex union issue... seemed unlikely. from both sides.
biden was wrong on several of the mccain voting issues. i would have thought he'd have that stuff down by now. seeing as he 1) knows mccain 2) worked with mccain for years 3) has done 80+ speeches since being nominated. probably partisan fuzz... effects palin too... preventing you from saying what you *really* think vs. what you are "supposed" to think. still pretty inexcusable.
and if i hear the term "maverick" once again and not specifically referring to a calf... i'm going to flip. that term is overused. wrong. and dead. stop it already.
all and all. a decent debate. entertaining. though mellow.
i was over 3000 characters... but i would also like to say... that fourwheeling in rock creek park *would* be pretty fun. a bit rough... but better than having to wade through crap streams like last time i decided to make an adventure out of it.
so that is one part of 'main street wasilla' in DC that would be okay. that and gun laws in DC suck.
but whatever... i'm sure someone is writing up a response calling me a 'lefty' already.
Damn "doozzer"....that's cold! Funny...but cold!
As for those blaming Gwen Ifill, stop the madness. She was fair and very professional.
Its a shame many tuned in just to see Palin provide more Saturday Night Live material.
I think she succeeded in NOT doing so on that behalf.
This time around, it was very obvious that bar was lowered tremendously for her benefit.
But Biden is just on another level.
He won this debate hands down.
When members of you own Republican base say the McCain/Palin ticket "lost this race two weeks ago," you know things are merely on life support from here on in.
And thank you "Akgg"! If anything else, this "maverick" stuff has gotten WAY old.
Could you imagine hearing that drivel from McCain and Palin for the next four years? My god!!!
Enjoy those last few weeks traveling the country Sarah....then get on back here to Alaska.
Have you done the 49th state proud (for the most part)? Yes!
Should you have ever left on this venture? I guess.
Are you in over your head? Most definitely.
Are you fit to be Vice-President.....and possibly (gulp!) President if anything happened to McCain?
Aw....hell no!
Joe LaRocca!!! Good to hear from you. We miss your journalism here in Alaska, and are glad to see you're still out there!!
OldSkoolNook42 knows what time it is. that is... not Palins time. not in the national stage.
As an old Alaskan now living in Vermont, I say that Palin may have brought the Greatland some publicity, but I also spend a lot of time explaining to people that most Alaskans do not have fake Minnesotan accents, that Wasilla is little more than a collection of big-box stores and that you might be able to see McKinley from her back door, but you will never see Russia. I also tell them all about how Stevens, Young and Murkowski got to Washington (all were originally appointed, not elected). There is a lot of ignorance about Alaska and Palin tends to reinforce the stereotype versus educate about the changes. BTW...according to FactCheck.org, Palin was wrong with her statistics virtually 90 percent of the time.
Q: "what do you think about Iraq?"
Palin: " ..in Alaska...hockey moms unite....ENERGY...McCain...MAVERICK"
Q: "what would you do if you were Vice President about the economy?"
Palin: " ..in Alaska...hockey moms unite....ENERGY...McCain...MAVERICK"
Q: "Would you attack Iran or Pakistan first, if needed?"
Palin: " ..in Alaska...hockey moms unite....ENERGY...McCain...MAVERICK"
I knew Joe Sixpack. Joe Sixpack was my friend. I went hunting with Joe Sixpack behind Gunsight mountain when we shot our first bear. I sold Joe Sixpack his first truck. He gave me his two year old snowmachine. And I'm sorry Sarah Palin, but you're no Joe Sixpack.
I agree with Setec, it is absolutely ridiculous that McBeath and others are judging Palin based on everyone's low expectations rather than the high expectations we should have from someone who may be president in the very near future. Palin performed absolutely horrifically in every interview she's had because she didn't already know the questions and have time for McCain's handlers to devise answers for her.
I didn't have low expectations of Palin in the debate. I knew that she would do fine in the debate because she knew the questions weeks ago, McCain's people have had all that time to write the answers down for her, and her only role was to put on a good acting performance. Even an almost Miss Alaska could pull that off. I'm completely embarrassed by the fact that everyone in the world knows that she is so dumb that they had to set the rules of the debate up that way so that her ignorance wouldn't be so clearly demonstrated, as it was in the interviews. Why the Democrats agreed to go along with such ridiculous rules, I don't know. Now, we just have to wait for Obama to kick McCain's butt in the 2 remaining real debates.
McBeath is still alive?
As a Republican, I thought the debate went very well for both Sen. Biden and Gov. Palin. I thought the moderator did a very nice job also. Is that too hard to say for Democrats and Republicans that both sides did well and it was well moderated? It is pretty sad to see how the party lines goes. As we get back to the being "qualified" question, how in the heck do any of you think Barack is qualified? How long has he been in the Senate? Not long enough. If Sen. Biden was running for President, I would have to take him seriously, but not the other way around. I thought that Gov. Palin did a stand up job as well as Sen. Biden. I will give credit where credit is due, they both did a great job!
Knowing full well what Sarah is capable of; Well educated, strict in her views, tough as nails, and a great speaker. I watched the debate with only the benefit of one camera view I truly was looking for some type of Bias From Gwen for obvious reasons.... I found less than were present in the pres. debate she quipped Sarah by stating no answer to the question 1 time and complimented Joe before 1 question I was truly shocked in her objectivism.
I remember reading transcripts of Truman wherein he spoke in the vernacular of the common man Why are the Dems so up in arms about Sarah’s "golly and Ubecha"? for someone to refer to it as a fake Minnesota accent is ludicrous watching her for the past 5 years I have noticed that inflection in her voice every time she speaks so give me your basis of comparison.
As for McBeath he was a poor teacher when I took his class 17 years ago and I dropped out of an ethics class with him when the UAF super-cops busted him for DWI Kind of a conflict of interest
in closing SARAH Great
GWEN OK
SARAH Honest
MCBEATH Conflicted not worth attention of any Kind
Thanks RAGNAR
Border dog let’s put it this way
Barrak is qualified like a teenager who thinks by virtue of the fact that he wants it there for he should get it
Senator McCain is Qualified in the sense that he has been there done that has seen the world go round, fought for his country represented his country internally and abroad and has a rolodex of foreign dignitaries and alliances with so many domestic concerns that he will do a great job.
Thanks RAGNAR
McBeath is the oracle of the silly. Imagine a professor saying she tied because she didn't screw up her lines. Just last week she had no answers. So she's a one week miracle and ready to lead our nation out of the Cheney-Bush squalor, which McCain helped create. Jeeze she never answered half the questions without Ms. Ifel re-directing. Furthermore she failed at her job description. At least her Minders could have prepared her for that, or did she forget!
The Governor had her characteristic cute little winks, smiles, but has acquired a "Fargo" accent; thank goodness she kept her tisks and smirks to a dull roar, but they were still there. You know those nasty high school girl put offs. Then her staged introduction "can I call you Joe," or her botched attempt to pull off the Reaganesque, "now there you go again Joe," were obviously prepared over hours at one of Cindy McCain's ranches.
Professor McBeath's lack of objectivity indicate he is smitten by Sarah or looking for an appointment. Can't the NewsMiner find another more objective oracle -maybe at Harvard Law School or even UAA.
Believe it or not, once I was going to vote for Senator John McCain. Now he has been hijacked by mediocrity.
It don’t matter who won the debate, after seeing this 700 Billion dollar PORK-Bail-Out bill pass, I’m moving my money into Gold!
Ragnar, I did appreciate your comments except there were 2 that were pretty far off: Sarah Palin - well educated? A bachelor's in journalism/communication counts as well educated? Not. And, it took 4 community colleges and a university before she finally finished that degree. Additionally, her abject ignorance on many national and foreign policy issues demonstrate a clear lack of intellectual curiosity since she graduated with that little bachelors degree 21 years ago.
Barack Obama is one of the most well educated candidates in the country - a degree from Columbia University and a constitutional law degree from Harvard University, the greatest law school in the world. The President takes an oath to protect the U.S. Constitution - Obama will actually know what that means. His legislative experience in Illinois and the U.S. Senate combined with his extensive understanding of the U.S. Constitution and his tendency to critically assess an issue before him while seeking perspectives from a diversity of people, provides him with the experience, knowledge, and personality that we need in our next leader. Palin, on the other hand, fires anyone who doesn't agree with her.
I don't mind Palin's attempt at being "Joe six-pack" and folksy. My problem with her, besides her continual lies and ignorance, is that I don't want another stupid person (like Bush) running this country into the ground. We don't need another Joe 6-pack in Washington - we need someone with a plethora of knowledge, intelligence, and a willingness to build a diverse team to tackle the massive problems that we face as a country. I'm sorry, but your average mechanic, burger flipper, journalist, or communications major doesn't have the knowledge and skills necessary to do a good job as vice president or president - and neither does Sarah Palin.
Also, also, and also, - that is what I heard from Palin.... she needs help in wording what she has to say. Other than the over use of the words "also" and "maverick" - I did not get anything from Sarah Palin. She didn't flop like she has in other interviews, and I think she was lucky because Gwen was very fair and respectful with her questions - but even so I was not impressed with Sarah Palin's performance. Joe Biden was much more interesting to me, and I felt he definitly has much more to offer in experience, expertise, and communication skills.
While she didn't win the debate Palin didn't need to. Palin succeeded in doing well enough to stop being an embarrassment to the McCain campaign. The right wing will be happy with her again and she may be allowed to speak to the press again.
She did not show a lot of substance in her answers like Biden did, but she got to show her style which a lot of folks apparently like. I personally prefer substance.
I also graduated from collage many years past 2 degrees both of which are not of the level to get letters beside my name. However the lessons learned in Hard Knocks U are far better absorbed than any class I ever took. Continuing education doesn’t always have to be certificate related.
As with all of us weather you lean Right or Wrong learning is a relative thing the fact of the matter is she is a quick study she has ascended with direction and learned the job as she goes far better than many, whom see the job, analyze the job, talk about the job, think they could to the job, and they have talked about the job so much they believe they could maybe doo the job. She personifies the Get 'r' Dun attitude that will ultimately be the "Change" that is so desperately needed in Washington to step above the quagmire of partisan politics as usual.
All of you people out there in Blogland need to ask yourself do you want a proven record of getting along on both sides of the fence or someone that is responsible for voting with the party and responsible for many non American beliefs as his book portrays
I don’t want to sway the way you vote or be your friend I just want to fill in the holes in the Net you are using for a parachute. HA HA and that way when you finally hit the intellectual bottom it won’t hurt so bad BTW you are very close as we speek.
furthermore AKJACK
Abject ignorance is a bit harsh maybe hasn’t learned yet (but she will in the months to come) if education was the bar for which we decided the next president then Jimmy Carter should have been a shoe in as well as Bill Clinton but both of them are pretty happy they don’t live in glass houses because even with their credentials’ they still made terrific blunders as all of them have since the beginning…………………………. "Pobodys Nerfect"
the perspective of the common man was the desire of the framers of the constitution that is why the houses are set up the way they are.
but to paraphrase Reagan and the debate last night " Freedom is But one generation away what we do with it is up to us"
I just looked up Freedom in the book of Daniel and oddly enough one of the antonyms listed was Regulation Go figure that one out.
McBeath is still not the best @ his job
akjak response
I appreciate your views but have a problem with your logic. That a candidate with 'only' a bachelors degree from the state university system is somehow less qualified than someone who has a legal degree from an elite university system is so elitist in tone. Senator Obama has lied his way into the position that he is in now. And, by the way, his path to this candidacy is littered with the bodies of those who have helped him most. He learned quickly how to use the strong arm politics that Chicago has long been associated. He spent the majority of his state races in using legal technicalities to essentially have all of his primary opponents disqualified. Legal? Yes. Morally or ethically right? I don't think so. By the way, does ACORN ring a bell? This is most likely the 'nonpolitical' group who has consistently been linked and charged with voter fraud. Intellectual and charming discource does not meet my criteria for qualified. Character does and Obama fails miserably there.
Dear saferich,
you and Ragnar should collaborate and produce a letter to the editor for all to read those above 2 posts all be they hard to stomach for the LibDem squad @ DNM represent the truth and more of that needs to come out, or this election has the potential to be a real goat ropeing.
The dear professor was obviously watching a different show. Hard to say what channel he was tuned into.
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