Did Palin or Biden win the debate? Depends on who you ask
Published Thursday, October 2, 2008
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Stumble It!ST. LOUIS - Sarah Palin and Joe Biden were still on stage with their families in the debate hall as analysts, politicians and campaign staff put the spin on each candidate's performance.
Who won?
That depends on who you ask.
Former presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani said Palin demonstrated an effective attack "with a lot of style and a lot of grace."
But Congressman William Lacy Clay, D-Mo., said the debate offered a strong contrast between a "seasoned senator" and a "very green candidate," and that the Alaska governor came off well-rehearsed while Biden was natural and in command.
Both tried to appeal to Main Street American voters, Palin with customary casual speech and references to everyday people, like moms and dads on the soccer fields.
"Turn to any parent on the sideline, and ask them, 'how are you feeling about the economy?'" she said. "Our economy is hurting, and the federal government has not provided the sound oversight we need."
Biden, too, referenced neighborhoods and said he spends a lot of time at Home Depot, sharing a story of someone at a gas station who said he can't afford to fill up the tank.
"The middle class needs relief, tax relief," he said. "The middle class is the economic engine."
Major news organization tracking polls indicate voters gave the win to Biden. Within an hour of the debate's close, FOX was giving Palin the victory while CNN was awarding Biden top honors.
Polling aside, some say Palin's performance won with the middle-America audience she claims to represent.
"She was great tonight," Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., said. "She said she would rather talk directly to the American people, as she did tonight, and I think with great honesty and constructive language, rather than have it filtered by the media."
David Plouffe, campaign manager for Sen. Barack Obama, applauded Biden's strong closing in which the candidate asked for God's blessing for American troops. Both Biden and Palin have sons in the military, and Plouffe said the final word likely resonated with voters.
The Democrat candidate shone when it came to health care issues, he added.
"Joe Biden, I think, very effectively discussed the issues," he said. "Palin didn't answer the charge. This is a really soft underbelly for the John McCain, and his running mate took a pass on defending his health care plan."
Biden also came out on top in response to a question posed about nuclear weapons, he said.
The debate was "crucial," Lieberman said, as the only formal contest between the two vice presidential candidates.
"There are obviously doubts being raised about Gov. Palin based on some of the one-on-one interviews she did with the media," he said. "She proved tonight those doubts are unjustified."
Clay said the debates are valuable in the weeks before the election.
"These allow the country to see the differences in the candidates, and kind of shows off their knowledge," he said.
Community Discussion
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Halcro, Murkowski, Knowles, Binkley... and now Biden's name can be added to the list of patronizing old white guys who thought that they could beat Sarah.
GRIN
PS- And Biden says he spends a lot of time at Home Depot???
How stupid does he think we are?
CEO-
Just what she was going for...the bubba vote.
Sucker.
It seems her only tactic to winning votes is claiming to be like any average American and just my making references to moms and dads at soccer. Do you think that is not rehearsed? She did a good job studying, I praise her teachers.
Biden clearly won. Across the board.
Sarah says it best herself...
Freudian slip?
"Also, John McCain's maverick position that he's in, .... recognizing he is the man that we need to leave -- lead in these next four years, because these are tumultuous times."
Palin treated this thing like a GAME SHOW. It was SUPPOSED to be a job interview for one of the most important and difficult jobs in the world.
You don't win something like that by flirting with the audience, winking at the camera, and complaining about the questions, and that's all Sarah Palin could do. She had about four or five lines memorized about the issues and she just kept repeating those lines over and over no matter what the question was. It was obvious that she doesn't know anything about the issues except what she was forced to memorize in the last week.
She only showed that she can repeat talking points like a pull-string Barbie doll. Pull the string. "Maverick!" Pull the string. "Golly, isn't America great?" Pull the string. "Obama hates the troops!" Pull the string. "Obama will raise every tax ever ever!" Pull the string. "Gosh golly doggone it, aw shucks, ain't I just folksy!"
Republicans are acting like Sarah Palin won because she didn't burst into flames. She dodged all the questions, she BRAGGED about dodging the questions, and her fans are cheering her on as though that's a good thing. Well, I doubt many undecided voters are with them on that. I think some of them wanted to see her answer the questions. She couldn't.
The fact-checking should be interesting. Biden's repeated claim that we've spent as much money in Afghanistan in 6.5 years as three weeks in Iraq is surely bogus.
Setec - your exaggerations are really Oboring.
Clearly, math is not Obama nor Biden's strong suit. They keep saying that their tax plan will cut taxes for 95% of Americans, yet only 70% of adult Americans pay taxes. What is left unsaid is that the 30% of non-taxpayers will be getting tax "rebates" under Obama's plan. Rebates? Don't you have to pay something first before getting a rebate? Who pays for these rebates and tax cuts? The top 5% of taxpayers. One can only conclude that the democrats are conspiring to transfer more ownership of government to the very wealthy and further the lower-class dependency on government "rebates".
Palin characterizes herself as an everyday, working-class American. I just read something about her being a millionaire...
Well, I'm amazed America, the news, is all so concerned about who won the the debate. Meanwhile, the world economies are flondering. Asian stocks have plummeted, US stocks are way down,...we're approaching a financial meltdown and America is waatching a "debate".
DUH
Nice that US govt is so preocupied with talk, when the world economies are in real trouble.
Welcome to depression.
So, everybody's upset because she didn't sound "politician-y" enough?
Whatever. She answered the questions as they applied to her frame of reference...i.e. "How would you handle this?" She stepped out of the box. Far more impact than answering "the question" to every other politicians/medias satisfaction.
Who died and made them God? These "expert" politicians who take credit for the economic crap they've left Americans to deal with? C'mon. I'm still not voting to re-elect any Senator or Congressman in my State who voted yes on the bailout/sellout package. They ALL let this happen on their watch. Unforgiveable.
I want someone in office who is NOT a Washington insider. She proved tonight she's the change our Country needs.
Not Obama, not Biden...not even McCain. I prefer MCCain simply because he is conservative, as opposed to Obama liberal to the point of being radical.
Palin WILL "shake things up" in DC. Fact. She has improved the lives of Alaskans, stood up to Big Oil, her own party, for the greater good of standing up for "the little guy"..less than 2 years in office. Impressive.
She has values, morals, intelligence, courage, integrity...demonstrated. That's more powerful, to me, than how someone voted in the Senate. Again, look what we're facing now?
Americans are tired of politicians and their retoric. I don't care who says who lied about what in the debate. It doesn't change the end result of the mess our Country is in.
Biden is boring. He rambled. Sarah was clear on her views, as they pertained to her. So, "pick away". Sarah Palin doesn't measure up to your standards as opposed to, say, Obama? Funny.
PioneerAK, she did NOT answer questions of "how would you handle this?" She dodged any such questions. When asked what the appropriate time is for the President of the United States to decide to use nuclear weapons, she said that we don't want to let the bad guys get nuclear weapons. Um, no sh*t Sherlock. But how about answering that important question about when you would press the big red button?
Palin wasn't thinking outside the box. She was thinking LIKE a box. A box with a little tape recorder inside that plays the same recording no matter what button you press.
It has nothing to do with sounding like a politician or not. She just plain didn't sound like a person who knows what the @#%) she's talking about. If she were folksy and she knew something about the issues, like Fred Thompson, then that's okay. But to use her folksiness like a shield to avoid answering very important questions about the job she's applying for... that's just wrong. What matters isn't just how she talks but WHAT SHE KNOWS, and she's shown that she doesn't know anything.
We don't know what's going to happen in the next 4 years. The President of the United States could end up having to decide whether to use U.S. nuclear weapons or not. How can ANYONE want Sarah Palin to have the final say in such a serious decision? If she can't even answer questions about situations like that, how on Earth is she going to handle the real thing? She won't have any memorized answers on notecards to help her in the real world.
Prospector, possibly Obama means that 95% of that 70% of people who pay taxes will get the tax cut?
Freddy, I said the same thing when she mentioned that she's 'been there, done that' with being a middle class american.
I was disgusted with her and as Setec said, it's for the 2nd most powerful position in America and all she could say is 'darn tooting' and 'dang right' UGH I was so sick of her 10 minutes in I'm surprised my TV is still in one piece. She doesn't even sound like an Alaskan, she sounds like she's from Minnesota or Wisconsin. Thank the Lord that was the only VP debate and that Palin isn't doing anymore TV interviews, gee I wonder why?
While Palin did better than her lowered expectations, the polls thus far are showing Biden as the clear winner. Several ex-Bush officials admit that Biden won the debate and "one senior Republican member of Congress tonight says he thinks the election has basically been lost over the last couple of weeks."
Sectec, and did biden realy answer anything? nothing believable from from my perch.
Bless her heart!
Biden looked so authoritive and knowledgeable, as he stood there and lied and lied. 3 weeks in Iran as expensive as the entire time in Afghanistan? That just doesn't sound possible, or true. Not a war authorization act? I guess that's why they called it A Bill To Autorize The Use of Military Force in Iraq. McCain didn't support the military action in Bosnia? A fellow senator recalled right after, than McCain had convinced him to support the action in Bosnia.
The fact checkers will go to work and sort it out. Just dont look for the mainstream media to do it. Or they'll hide it in an article titled "Palin Doesn't Know Fact From Fiction".
But he looked so senatorial.
Hello.. lying Palin... in her 'middle class' $500,000 home on a lake with a float plane in the front yard... wink... taking credit for unfinished business in AK's legislation... with her don't tell me how to answer a question attitude... thanks but no thanks!!
AKHockeyFan---
If Obama means 95% of the 70%, then why doesn't he say that? Do you think that he's being cagey? Probably, because half of the country is gullible, and the other half thinks that he's lying, so he could say 150% of the people will get their taxes reduced and have the same reaction. I'm in the half that thinks he's lying.
Also, the Palins got their million the old fashioned way, they earned it. They've both worked most of their lives, thus the right to claim middle class roots. If it's a crime for a millionare to claim middle class roots, well that will decimate the Democratic Pary.
Setec---
So I guess that you're not voting for McCain-Palin. I'm shocked. I really thought that you'd be convinced after tonight.
The fact checkers do not call the "3 weeks in Iran as expensive as the entire time in Afghanistan" a lie. That fact have been around for some time.
Had Bush put more effort into Afghanistan and not been distracted by invading Iraq it is probable that Bin Laden would have been captured or killed, the Taliban and Al-Qaeda crushed and a democratic Afghanistan a peaceful and more prosperous place by now.
Palin won the debate as far as doing what was needed to stop the hemorrhage of support for the McCain/Palin ticket. She had more style, Biden had more substance.
I've never seen that "fact". But I'm sure it will be brought out in the open, if it is true or false.
They both lied. They're politians.
We will be lucky to wake up tomorrow and have any economy worth salvaging.
I don't care who won. Go back to work WASH.
The world financial meltdown ebbs closer to home.
Barack Obama got his couple recent millions by earning it, too. Joe Biden? He's not a millionaire. He's the least rich member of the Senate, living almost all his adult life off his regular Senate paycheck. He rides the train to work every day.
Glacierles, you do realize McCain didn't earn his millions, right? His first wife got fat after she was crippled in a car wreck, so he dumped her and married a rich Paris Hilton-type heiress. Now he has about 7 houses and 13 cars. How's that for a story mainstreet America can identify with?
The sad thing about Sarah Palin is that, Middle Class roots or not, she is supporting ALL the policies of the anti-Middle-Class neoonservatives in the Bush White House. She's betrayed "Main Street" at the first chance she got to go play with the rich kids, and now she supports policies that benefit the rich over everyone else. She tries to use folksy acting and flirting to distract from the fact that she's out there pushing the policies of George W. Bush (rich kid), John McCain (gold digger), and all the other spoiled "old money" brats in the Republican party who think the rest of us exist just to vote them into power. They think that if you wave some shiny lies about God and guns in front of Middle Class voters they'll just obediently vote against their own best interest over and over. It worked for Bush, but it's not going to work this time.
That's another thing that Joe said, and you AKpatriot just repeated. That the goal of this is to bring in or kill Bin Laden. I dont think so. It is a war against terrorism. Bin Laden is only a man. It is terrorism that must be defeated.
PS. We never captured or killed Hitler either.
Democrats must all work for companies that earn less than 250,000 per year. The facts are that Biden has the third most liberal voting record in the senate, and the dems want to tax and regulate business into extinction. But not to worry, we can all work for the government alternative power initiative.
Poor Joey.
Class warfare is such a part of Democrat politics. Hate and fear of rich Republicans.
Ironically, it is the Democratic party that get's much of it's contributions from super rich trial lawyers, Hollywood entertainment executives and stars, and billionaire financiers like George Soros and Warren Buffet.
In the 2004 election, according to FEC reports, 7% of the people in red counties earned at least $100,000. In blue counties, 14% of the people earned at least $100,000.
It is propaganda that the GOP is the party of the rich. It is every bit as much a working man and woman party as the Democrats. The union leaderships support the Democrats, not always the rank and file.
Unfortunately I did not get to watch the debate, but I heard it was more a 'pingpong' match and not a 'tennis' match.
its three weeks in IRAQ compared to the almost 7 years in Afghanistan...not Iran...
I think declaring war on a word is ridiculous. Wars on poverty; crime; drugs; terrorism....none have worked. We will still have all of them long after each of us is dead. War on Al-Qaeda? Sure, there you have a specific target.
So far as I know Hitler died in 1945 shortly before the Soviet forces captured the remains of Berlin. So he died by suicide...works for me.
Setec, all your pionts are opinonated garbage. Rationalising as you do is not worthy of inteligent conversation. Your crap might fly at harvard or a porno shop but not here.
Iraq. I humbly stand chastised on that one.
Denial....You Palin supporters are in Denial. Anyone who was paying attention to the debate could see who the clear winner was.
Palin, from the start, looked to be out of her league. She never answered the questions asked to her and it's because she couldn't. I almost stopped watching because I was so embarrased seeing her look and sound like a bumbling fool. The funny thing is she's supposed to be smart, and I'm sure she is, but she comes across as a lady who just likes to hear herself talk.
Where is the substance? The variety? She say's the same things over and over but never gets to the real issues. And she's supposed to take over if McCain passes for some reason? Hell No! And after the debate I'm sure others feel the same thing. I guess we'll see but it doesn't look good for the McCain party.
Oh and by the way. Tina Fey is spot on as Gov. Palin. Too funny!
AKpatriot---
Do Al Qaeda members carry id cards? It is worldwide, cell by cell, allied with other terrorist groups. Jemaah Islamiya in the Philipines, pirates in the South Pacific, Checnyan rebels, the IRA, FARC and probably many others. The war on terrorism is unlike any previous war in the history of the world.
"So far as I know Hitler died..." That's not very authoritative. So far as I know, Bin Laden died in the caves of Tora Bora. I dont think so, but he could have. It could be an imposter on the tapes. The point is who knows? We dont even know for sure about Hitler.
akmjf29---
But otherwise, were you planning on voting Republican? It's always good to throw that in, then people will think that you're unbiased.
Depends on WHOM you ask, not "who."
If Biden had displayed the same condescending, patronizing attitude toward her that she did toward him he would have been crucified as being sexist. I thought her performance was almost child-like. She did a good job memorizing the talking points, but she avoided answering most of the questions. I wondered at times if she even heard what was asked. She talked about the "leader of Israel and Hamas," but didn't name either of them. I found that rather telling. She got the name of the U.S. commander in Afghanistan wrong. It's not McClellan, It's McKiernan. And even though she insisted, twice, that he didn't say the Iraq strategy wouldn't work in Afghanistan, he did say just that this morning. Quote, "The new top U.S. commander in Afghanistan yesterday said more American troops are urgently required to combat a worsening insurgency, but he stated emphatically that no Iraq-style "surge" of forces will end the conflict there. Afghanistan is not Iraq," said Gen. David D. McKiernan. I guess they didn't have time today to teach her that one. Maybe she should have read one of those newspapers and magazines she couldn't give katie Couric the names of.
I actually voted for Bush (now I wander why) but enough is enough. Palin is not fit to reside as our VP. Nice lady, pretty, great smile, she even has a decent figure, but is it enough to be sworn in as the second in charge. I don't think so. Beauty fades.
And even though I voted for Bush, and even Regan back in the days, it didn't take me long to realize it was a bad choice. Hey, it was either him or Gore. Gore reminds me of Palin, lol, but fortunatley this time I get to vote for someone like Obama.
Seems like the same old thing from the same ignorant politicians!
I am voting for Nader, then leaving for Canada where I used to live!
They both spoke, and they both lied or mislead. Biden is very good a lying with a straight face, Sarah doesn't have that poker face yet.
I don't think Biden can be saved, Sarah on the other hand has a slight chance. Neither won unless we are talking about competency in lying, then of course Biden won hands down!
I think it's best if we just don't put either one of them a heartbeat away from the presidency. And on that same note I really don't think either Senator Obama or McCain fit the bill as the POTUS either.
It's too late to change the candidates the media choose for us, but a message can still be sent that will make the beltway re-think the 2012 elections!
Vote Chuck Baldwin!
Yeh, vote Chuck Baldwin. I'm sure he has a good shot at winning. Who the h@#l is Chuck Baldwin?
Thats the problem AK all America is concerned with is what crook has a chance of winning. If your satisfied with perpetuating the lesser of the two evil paradigm continue the tradition by all means.
Wolves are wolves juvenile or adult they both kill...
Akmjf-
"Nice lady, pretty, great smile, she even has a decent figure, but is it enough to be sworn in as the second in charge. I don't think so. Beauty fades."
"Gore reminds me of Palin"
Pretty telling statements, from a liberal or a log cabin republican that I hope is a bisexual-female...
If I am not mistaken, sending more troops into a country is also called “surging troops”.
I guess with Obama saying a surge could/would not work, his wanting to send more troops into Afghanistan is not a surge.
I am also wondering where Obama is going to get the troops he wants to send. He said he is going to cut billions from the military budget.
Just wondering with everyone wanting to put the military into Durfur, has anyone asked what Obama's exit plan is? Or is an exit plan only required for Bush? The Iraq war is the first and only time I ever heard of an “exit plan” from a war. Until this war, the only exit plan America ever had was called victory.
Roadtrip wrote: "your crap might fly at harvard or a porno shop" -- what the...? That kind of anti-intellectual bullsh*t is everything wrong with George W. Bush's America. Screw facts. Screw knowledge. Screw good points. It's all liberal elitist nonsense! You're probably one of those worthless, abusive jerks who actually tries to discourage your kids from getting an education. Sick.
There are millions and millions of uneducated blue-collar workers who respect education and want a good one for their children. They're people who make an effort to become informed throughout their lives even without a formal education. They don't have to be brilliant or privileged, but if they at least see the value in knowledge then they're as honorable as anyone. I come from a family like that, with blue-collar war veterans whose main lesson for me was that I should go get myself a good education, even though they didn't have one. It is UNTHINKABLE for an honorable working man like that to use "Harvard" or "Ivy League" as an insult.
When you do that, roadtrip, you're flaunting your deeply anti-American values: that you don't even want us to try to get educated, to innovate, and to out-compete the other nations of the world. That attitude is absolutely treasonous. It's sad to see the values of real, worthy Americans attacked by people like roadtrip who openly take pride in being stupid and treat education as an insult.
Is it just me or does it seem to others that we have alot of new bloggers that are pro Obama. Are these people Alaska residents or just bloggers from across America doggging Palin? Welcome to the new age of politics.
Im now very savy when it comes to politics but I thought she was outstanding and has a ton of potential.
I didnt learn anything or see anything to look forward to from Biden. Sarah is in a win-win situation. If she comes back to Alaska as our Gov. or goes on to the White House either way she will do great things for the people she works for. I just think she has the total package to lead and to make America or Alaska a better place.
Peace
I'm with "AKbyChoice:"
If Joe Biden "took the bait," and really put his "hooks" into her and made her LOOK anymore out of her league than she already is, no doubt he WOULD have been crucified as sexist.
That's the opinion I got from alot of people shortly after the debate.
Both Pro-Palin folks as well as Anti-Palin folks expressed relief she just didn't provide anymore fodder for the late night comedians and Saturday Night Live.
And trust me, there were a few times Joe Biden wanted to put the "smack down" on Sarah Palin, but restrained himself.
Good move indeed!
As for her performance, someone said in an earlier post folks should be "thanking the teachers who coached her."
I agree with that as well.
She didn't make a fool out of herself this time....held her own for the most part. Couldn't have expected much more from her.
But Biden clearly won hands down. Stayed to THE ISSUES...all while calling McCain/Palin "4 more years of George W. Bush."
After about a half hour in, I too tired of the folksy, "aw shucks" soccer/hockey mom attitude Palin tried to put over on viewers. "Bobbing and weaving" questions on THE ISSUES. And it was nice to see SOMEBODY FINALLY put a "foot" on talk of "mavericks."
Thank You Joe Biden.......!
And Please....John McCain, and Sarah Palin....Shut the Hell up about that!!!!!!
That 3 a.m. phone call is the State of Alaska calling Sarah!
Soon be time to bring Todd and the kids on back home for good.
You've still got a State to run as Governor.
Airboat-
Have you ever been to Sudan? My units AOR was Africa for 5 years. I hate to say this because it WILL be seen as callous but the truth hurts, Sudan is a wasted cause. We will never be able to change the beliefs of the tribes and clans in the western part of that country, just like I won't change your beliefs. Until you see it first hand you'll never be able to grasp the reality of it, and no the media, and all the humanitarian organizations can't provide you unbiased reports either, they have an agenda just like the tribes and clans do; it's called getting financed by emotion.
AFRICOM has been off and on a few times over the last few years and it finally flagged in Stuggart, GE just this last week or so. So maybe you'll see some intervention in Sudan, to the glee of the US Taxpayer.
I suspect we will try to build up the countries around us like we built up the UAE city of Dubai. I personally don't think propping up potential adversaries and enlightening them with our doctrine and technology to possibly someday advance us is in our national interest; nor is dwindling our resources to get them to the 18th century.
We've spent over 50 trillion dollars in Korea alone since we (the UN) brokered the cease fire along the DMZ in Korea. Where are they at? Whats the UN statement on Darfur? Why are we in Korea? Is it to keep the starving and unindustrialized North from coming across the border? (hardly) All I am trying to convey is most Americans have no idea whats in the National interest of our country, and they only know what they read in the WSJ, WP, or LA Times from a journalist that spent 4-6 years as a captive student in a left-wing institute of higher education and propaganda.
Let the UN sink or swim in Darfur, no doubt they will sink, but thats not Americas fault. People have died throughout history and they will continue to do so at the tip of the government, religious and cultural spear. And no Sudan is not like Bosnia or Kosovo, we only went there under the guise of genocide, we wanted well placed strategic airfields in that region ever since Truman was president.
glacierles - Biden looked so authoritive and knowledgeable, as he stood there and lied and lied.
- - -
examples?
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/...
seems about tied to me. do you have extra super secret facts you got from an email with a subject line like : "FWD: FW: fwd: FWD: fwd: FW: Re: FWD: fwd: BIDEN IS A SUPER LYER!!!" ... or what?
factcheck.org is basically about tied. i'll put it in the category of 'public speaking totally sucks... stressful as hell.' hence they both made mistakes. it is a given. depends on the *severity* of the lies.
BEYOND that... palins 'golly shucks' homespun tundrabilly nonsense got incredibly incredibly grating. sure... biden mentioned 'home depot' ... however he didn't preface EVERY SINGLE ANSWER with some home-town anecdote. that was palins game. a tiring game. a VERY tiring game. almost as tiring as the word "maverick".
i'm sure plenty thought it was touching... with the winking and nose pinches. just ate that up. hint : it wasn't touching. it was a game. a political game. unless you also have $1,200,000 in assets... she wasn't *really* talking to you. she was talking to you as an idiot that believes she IS like you. she isn't. she isn't middle class. you will get screwed.
she did a good job based on her massively lowered expectations. but it wasn't a knockout unless you are lying to yourself.
read up.
and i agree with Setec... that the incredibly pervasive attitude of anti-intellectualism in the US is completely disingenuous to the goals of the founding fathers.
they were not idiots. though for some reason we are supposed to believe that being a complete partisan bigoted idiot is something to be praised.
newsflash : it isn't. it is insulting.
the founding fathers would roll in their graves.
Setec...
The hardest arguments are with the proudly ignorant.
I'm predicting an Obama win.
"She was great tonight," Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., said. "She said she would rather talk directly to the American people, as she did tonight, and I think with great honesty and constructive language, rather than have it filtered by the media."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts52...
Biden sounded like what he is. A 35 year veteran of the Beltway. Sarah sounded like a down to earth, middle of the road American who wants to make the US indendent of foreign energy resources. Currently we have oil, coal, nuke power tecknology and eventually develop wind, CNG, etc. but that takes time. Will it take us 10 years to develop our oil reserves? Come on Alaskans. How long did it take to make the haul road, lay 900 miles of pipe, build 12 pump stations and the Valdez terminal and two refineries in North Pole? I think a lot less than 10 years. Where do the libs get all this crap? Give a deadline for us to pull out of Iraq and all the terrorists have to do is sit and wait and than take it over with Iran's support. How long should we have a military presence in Iraq? How long have we had a military presense in Germany or Japan? Since about the time I was born. No one is suggesting we pull our bases from Germany? You win the war and stay put and make sure it stays that way. Why should Iraq be any different. The war against those who want us dead will not go away in 16 months or 16 years.
The meltdown on Wall Street was not deregulation. It was regulation started by Clinton when the banks were "regulated" to start giving loans below prime so people who could not anti up the normal 20% down or buy a house that took more than 25% of their income to make the payments that the banks normally required. Banks know how to make money but were forced to go against normal banking principals and loan money for mortages that they knew could not be paid.
Who won the debate? You decide who you want as VP. Another Beltway smoothy and a person whose alligence to the US is questionable or a Maverick and VP who is a real person who takes on all comers regardless of which party they belong to and is right out of main street America. And finally, Fox news had Palin winning to 88% to Biden's 12%. And which news network has the largest viewing population?
CPW
No, they didn't "lie and lie" actually. We all should be proud of the 90 minutes of informed debate these two leaders offered the American people, though it was obviously an uneven presentation.
A quick point about Biden's clever reference, and then I am actually going to get to work for a change instead of spending my day on this website: his statement was 100% true, but totally misleading. we are spending 3 times the among on COMBAT in Iraq (not Iran as one of the posters above wrote, but hey, same diff right, doesn't really matter does it?) than we have spent on RECONSTRUCTION in Afghanistan. so that's true, but he's comparing apples and oranges. That doesn't mean we are spending that much more on the ENTIRE war in the two places, just that much more on fighting vs. building. So it's the old winning their hearts and minds issue in Afghanistan he was talking about. BTW, did you all understand his concern about how many madrasas are being built along the border, and why this should be of concern? I am sure Sarah made a note of that to talk to John about...
Have a good day folks. Sarah did not crash and burn. If that's your idea of success, well, congrats. For me, the highlight was when Biden put her in her place by noting that just because he is a man doesn't mean he doesn't know what it's like to be a parent. Damned straight, Joe.
Employers cut 159,000 jobs, most in more than 5 years; jobless rate holds steady
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Employers slashed payrolls by 159,000 in September, the most in more than five years, a worrisome sign that the economy is hurtling toward a deep recession.
Will the real US Senate/House REPS GO back to work now?
Since when is a cornball wink a great debating strategy??????
I believ that "wink" represents average America,...I'm not offended.
hambone - no doubt lots of obama freaks on here are out-of -state and in general just plain out of it in their biased opinion of obama not to see that sarah was much more in touch with the people and in general a better speaker overall. lots of transplants also that have been in the state for a year in college and think they are alaskans and know what is best for us - if they had been around for the last 20 years or more and then saw what sarah has done for this state since being elected they would obviously show a little more respect for our states leader who has done a fantastic job here and would in the whitehouse also.
Don't worry, in 2 years when the next campaign starts up, no matter who wins this election we will be have to hear for almost two years "I told you so" from what ever side. Hillary is probably on the sidelines figuring to start her next campaign, the first Wednesday in Novemeber. In the meanwhile, have you figured out who you will vote for in the city, borough, state elections. The ones that will really impact how you live?
Hey libs, let me introduce you to the next VP, Sara Palin! It gives me great pleasure that she causes some of you so much emotional turmoil.(The far left.) Because she does I know she is right for the job!
I welcome socialism. This is the mark of the times as in Canada, the healthcare system is alive and well.
American health is the worst system in the world, just remember that when you pop that next anti-depressant. Pharmaceutical companies DO NOT care about your health they just want you to take more and get addicted!
Wait and see, Obama will be victorious November 4th!
alaskaway - canadas health system sucks - i have two children there and every time something is wrong with them their mother sends them over since she cant get them in to see a doctor -
obamasucks (very classy by the way)
You must be one of those people that live so far out in the bush that you have no one to talk to.
Sarah Chatty- Pull her string and she say what ever was programed into her... Over and over and over. AND THEN SHE WILL WINK!
And heaven forbid we actually look into the past so we can learn from it.
What has Sarah done for the state, Well.. I am paying $5.30 for a gallon of gas.
Wow! "CPW151" takes credence with the ONLY poll that had Biden not winning this debate.
"CPW151"...you must have fallen down and seriously smacked your head on the floor.
"Fixed News" had Palin winning the debate by an 88-12 margin...and you not only believed it, but had the nerve to admit it in these posts.
Put the crack pipe down....move away slowly.
You and anyone else.
She did well with the bar lowered tremendously in her favor.
And Biden showed big time restraint in the process.
Lord knows that must have been very hard for him...against someone standing across from him...that was way out of her league.
CEO, Biden doesn't think your stupid, he knows you are!
No winner,no loser,no suprise.
Speaking of Biden's math - he mentioned there were 100,000,000 families in America - well, if every household in America was a household with 3 people in it he may have got that one right....
I guess everyone is married and has 1 child.
Whoever mentioned Palin's winking at the camera - She mentioned her father was in the audience - and she was winking at him. Not flirting.
I will say she sure acted like a hillbilly, but, she came across as a smart one.
In past interviews she looked like an idiot. Last night she looked like a well prepared intensely rehearsed idiot.
You put your hopes and dreams on the line when you put your faith in Lord Obama and the hard core left, which he leads. You think a couple of over educated lawyers are going to change anything? They will give more power to the government and the lawyers lobby.
Setec, there are many Dems on this useless blog that have made many good points, you are not one of them. Change your name to viper and keep spiting that venom.
Let’s talk about Qualifications for a second
Biden has been around long enough to lend a bit of credibility to the Ovommat ticket
However McCain has more credibility experience and moxy than the other guys combined
and to Quote a very wise man from another thread
Barrak is qualified like a teenager who thinks by virtue of the fact that he wants it there for he should get it
Senator McCain is Qualified in the sense that he has been there done that has seen the world go round, fought for his country represented his country internally and abroad and has a rolodex of foreign dignitaries and alliances with so many domestic concerns that he will do a great job.
Thanks RAGNAR
When Obama taxes the top 5 percent we will all pay most of those taxes as increased prices on goods and services. The atomic weapon question should be answered that there is never a time to use those wepons an all out atomic war would most likely end human life on this planet. Both canidates use talking points this is what these debates are for and about. Sarah did a good job in this debate. Lets remember that if Sarah had to take over as president she would have good advisors all around her she would not be making decisions on just her experience.
Dear Left-Centered Friends,
The audience to which Gov. Sarah Palin was attempting to appeal was certainly not you. She was attempting to convince those who might still be earnestly trying to determine which Candidate Team would be the better choice to lead our Nation. In that effort, I believe she was extremely successful. She came across as intelligent, witty, cheerful, and more like the vast majority of Americans than Senators Biden, Obama, or even McCain.
If the Republican VP Candidate were Abraham Lincoln the Obama supporters on this Forum would not have been convinced. You have been drinking the Kool-Aid for so long you are beyond reason. Fortunately, you are (by FAR) the minority in Alaska (though you would never guess that if you are a regular reader of this Forum).
Time will tell how well Gov. Sarah Palin did last night. Our comments on this Forum will not have any impact one way or another. We simply enjoy the debate.
Setec/X23, et al,
Why is it that the Liberals seem to think they are the only intellectuals in this Country? Did it ever occur to you that MANY Americans have been highly educated without being completely BRAINWASHED by the Liberal Professors that ALL of us were exposed to?
"the incredibly pervasive attitude of anti-intellectualism in the US is completely disingenuous to the goals of the founding fathers... though for some reason we are supposed to believe that being a complete partisan bigoted idiot is something to be praised"
Because I don't agree with your political views, are you calling me anti-intellectual and a partisan bigoted idiot?
You might need to go back and read your own comments.
I believe it is the Democratic Party that seeks the vote of the UNEDUCATED. As we speak, it is the Democrats that are "helping" the homeless in Ohio, Missouri, etc... to vote by driving them to the Polls and "helping" them SPELL O-B-A-M-A. Are you kidding me?
Have a nice day!
BKB
Note: Gov. Palin was not seeking my vote (nor the MAJORITY of Alaska). The McCain/Palin Ticket already owns Alaska (regardless of the very few dissenters).
Take the blinders off democrats. Once again Palin has energized the Republican ticket. I've watched the debate 3 times now, and as far the straight issues go, I thought it was pretty much a wash. Both candidates defended their presidential hopefuls, both had canned answers, don't think Biden's were not just because he is extremely well versed in communism.
As far as Ifill is concerned, I may have been bias, because of the severe ethical concerns with this woman moderating the debates. But I will admit that she was not as bad as I had originally thought in my first 2 viewings, I'm man enough to eat a little crow.
It's been well documented in this thread, and objective news reports that Biden lied several times (9). That's the main strength of democrats, they can lie with the best of them.
What I really liked is the way Palin was getting under his skin, and making him genuinely angry, looking away, while she would look right at him and smile. If Biden can't stand up to a woman from Alaska, how is he supposed to stand up to terrorists! I will say this as an opinion, unlike others who make their opinion out to be fact (OldSkool). I THINK Palin won the debate, just my opinion.
Weakening, Witchery, Seems the Sheep are Gathering. Set the Trap Hypnotize, Now You Follow!
Fishtales,
You are spot on. Neither Candidate answered the question about use of Nuclear Weapons. Gov. Palin actually addressed it a little bit. Nuclear Weapons represent a DETERRENT. God help us if we EVER have to use them!
The ONLY possible answer to this question is to state the Standard U.S. Nuclear Strategy. If ANYONE should use Nuclear Weapons against the United States or it's Allies, Nuclear retaliation will be immediate. That has to be the answer. Any other answer invites Nuclear Attack. However, this is not an answer the American People want to hear (Political Correctness).
BKB
wow, thanking yourself is a pretty funny thing to do on a blog.....
Everybody sees the world go round.....every 24 hrs.
What is needed is CHANGE from the regime that McCain represents, our economy is closer to another depression than it has been since the 30's.....so lets just print out another $700,000,000.00 and dilute the value of our dollar a little more, real smart.
once again-
Thanks allot bushies.....
(would you like your McPalin supersized for just one vote?)
it seems to me if you people who think Sarah is such a looser put your great wealth of knowledge to the test and run for vp or the pres and see if you don't get the media picking you apart. It's easy for you to sit there and drink your adult beverage and think you are better than everyone else, and when you sober up and start to think about the mess we are in, you blame the other guy. there is no easy solution to fix what is broken, we have to stop being selfish and work together, all of us, the price of being an AMERICAN has cost us more than you could believe possible, and we need to be involved with our government vigalently, so that those who control us is us, not who we elect to do it for us, because they will do it for themselves, first at our expense, as it is being done to us now.
BKB, very well said. the question is, why does this whole discourse have to be dumbed down, anyway? Why did Biden have to mention Home Depot of all things? and this idiocy about Joe Sixpack? what is this? Because sadly, our country for all its greatness has one major Achilles Heel, and that is education. While the rest of the world is investing in their human capital we walk around, as the Governor did last night, repeating this mantra about being the "greatest nation in the world." Well, I believe that may have been true at one time perhaps, but we are being left behind tortoise and hare-like, and it's largely because we have become anti-education and anti-intellectual. Both candidates sought last night to outdo one another in the degree to which they were "average," where average seems to mean throwing in improper grammar whenever possible (Palin most especially).
Now, I have been reading these strings long enough to know that there are some very educated minds reading and writing on this site. I learn from you all daily, or I wouldn't waste my time each day (though I miss the days when I could just read the DNM and simply get caught up on Golden Days or other local issues and not all this Palin business). But my sense is that often, any attempt to get to the facts is mocked, laughed at, or worse in this forum. You are 100% correct -- as I wrote above, just because Biden has a better grasp of the issues does not mean he used them with total honesty throughout the debate. So I am all for honest discourse and disagreement. What I am not for is a culture which glorifies ignorance, intransigence, intolerance, and anti-intellectualism, all in the name of somehow seeking to show that he/she who is the least informed is somehow the truest, most patriotic, REAL American, and something our children ought to emulate.
ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, and the newsminer say Biden won. I ask YOU...are the stations and newspapers to the far left?