Armed forces honor Interior servicemen
Published Wednesday, March 26, 2008
Local civilian and military leaders came together Tuesday night to honor soldiers and airmen of the Interior for their outstanding service.
One by one, the two dozen men and women receiving a certificate of appreciation from the Grater Fairbanks Chamber Commerce’s 40th Annual Military Appreciation Banquet saluted Gen. Carrol “Howie” Chandler and stood at attention as their accomplishments were read to the capacity crowd at the Carlson Center.
Those honored included Sgt. 1st Class Michael Barrera, who was awarded the Silver Star for fending off Iraqi insurgents by propping his gun against his side and continuing to fire after he had been wounded in both hands.
Staff Sgt. Brian Beem, who lost the lower part of one of his legs to an explosive device in Iraq, was recognized as one of only 15 amputees still serving in the Army.
But not every soldier was given a certificate for what they did overseas. Spc. Jason Ackerberg was honored for treating the victims of a serious accident he came upon on the Parks Highway. His actions that day no doubt saved those involved.
“We can give them time off, we can give them awards for their work in the field, and of course we say thank you,” Chandler said following the presentations. “But it really means something special when you in the community honor them such as today.”
Also recognized at the banquet was Butch Stein, a retired airman, who holds leadership positions with several local organizations including the Fairbanks Economic Development Corp. and Volunteers in Policing. Stein was awarded the Messer Award for outstanding service in improving military and community relations.
In his speech, he noted that the more than 25,000 members of the military and their families stationed here bring more than $1 billion into Alaska each year.
“That’s a tremendous impact on the local economy, and we’re glad they’re here for many reasons,” he said.
Both of Alaska’s senators, Ted Stevens and Lisa Murkowski, attended the banquet, as well as Carlos Gutierrez, the U.S. secretary of commerce who is on a two-day visit to Fairbanks. Gutierrez, who recently visited troops in Iraq took, the opportunity to thank those in the armed forces.
“They talked about home, but they believe in their mission and they believe what they’re doing is making a difference,” he said. “We are all deeply indebted to those who wear the military uniform.”
Comments
Before everyone gets all gushy here: Has anyone else noticed that it seems as though the folks of Ft.WW and Eielson contribute more to the crime (both violent and non-violent) of the Fairbanks area than any other group?
What group? If I had to guess, It would be closer to 10% than "More".Imusuallyclose.
Maybe we could get somebody that has access to all factors to produce an accurate #. I just think that you are way off.
Ohmigosh you are correct....They also contribute more to the economy, they contribute more to your safety, they contribute more to the global war on terrorism. Better send them all out of here now. It would be a better place without them. I am sure all of the DUI's would completely go away as well as all crime. All the good civilians would live in never, never land and it would be a large group hugging experience. Maybe you could save all of the wolves next!
Let's see...the military folks help out with search and rescue, scouting, support just about every 5k event in town, help clean up during May's clean up, support churches, and let's not forget they are ready to make huge sacrifices for our liberty. I remember years ago when it was the "Pipeliners" who committed all the crime.
It may appear they're the main reason for violence in this town, but more so because the armed forces are such a large group. The army base itself is growing year after year, and with it comes those who must reintegrate themselves after serving overseas. There are many reasons for young men to resort to violence, and I'm not saying it's all military men. But I do have experience with seeing this happen firsthand. Many men and women are away from home and get stationed in this desolate area...many are lonely, bored, and have nothing to do besides go to work day after day, which is not easy. Once in a while they are able to visit the bars, which seems to be the only entertainment found for them - drinking. This in turn lowers inhibition and all the anger and frustration of being stuck in a desolate base, away from home, being stuck in the barracks, all comes out...sometimes ending in violence. Maybe I'm wrong and these are not the reasons but, this is just my view on the matter. Incorporating suggestions from the men and women stationed here as to what they would LIKE, as far as entertainment in Fairbanks, may be a good idea. For them and for our young adults living here.
I did not hear anyone complaining about violance when the BRAC was going on and Eielson was going to close. All I heard was "Save Eielson." Now that the base is safe everyone goes back to bashing the military.
Imusuallyright sounds like somebody that belongs to a small group of idiots. I went and read your past posts and it sounds as though you might be a little to the left and not a strong supporter of anything but your own cause. So with that said, you are welcome for your freedom to say what ever you want about what ever topic. It is your choice because of me and my fellow soldiers.
Imusuallyright - As the wife of a military man living on Fort Wainwright with the numerous soldiers that not only contribute to our community, but to our nation, I find your comment to be baseless, offensive and inappropriate.
As an adult woman who was born and raised, journeyed the school system from pre-k to BA, maintained employment, with a large family rooted here from the pipeline days, I find your statement to be anecdotal, at best, and obviously not formed from statistics or facts.
I say THANK YOU to all of our service-members, and you all should absolutely be honored by the town that you help to support, in the country that you help support. Thanks.
Wait. Now I'm confused. Should I hold members of the military to a higher or lower standard than I do others?
Should I excuse the fact that they contribute to Fairbanks' crime because their JOB is to "help out with search and rescue, scouting [are you kidding!??], support just about every 5k event in town, help clean up during May's clean up, support churches , ... are ready to make huge sacrifices for our liberty."
I can't ask the military to leave. (Although I would love to.) I'm just saying that as long as they are here and patting themselves on the back, they'd better make sure they are contribiting positively to the community in all ways.
You know... I really try to respect our soldiers and the choice they've made to serve in the military. I recognize that without a standing military, other religous fundamentalists would be over here with the purpose of killing our religous fundamentalists (unfortunately, they wouldn't care what my beliefs are), instead of ours being over there.
However, when I read through these posts, I see many people making excuses for their actions; I see people agreeing that they do cause problems. The message I'm hearing from you guys is "Yeah, they do contribute significantly to the crime, but that's ook because they do good things too." Why do you make excuses for them? Don't you see that is justifying their actions?
Personally, I've met several woman in town that were raped by military men. I know of a teenage girl who was locked in the barracks for a week and slapped around when she complained (none of these things were reported BTW). I know of many other shootings and much violence perpetrated on our citizens by the military boys.
I'm not saying they are all bad - in fact, I'm sure that many of them are good people. I'm saying that if anything, we should hold them to a higher standard, we shouldn't be making excuses and looking the other way because they are soldiers.
Having said all that, I think it is a great thing that we recognize the good ones with awards and medals! Good job keeping us free to argue online!
DVD I agree!!
I have lived my whole life as a "military brat" and I am MORE than proud of my dad for being in the military and I fully support our troops! He is currently deployed and has gone over numerous times to help protect sorry people such as Imusuallyright who will always, no matter what, have some negative remark towards troops. Nevermind the fact that they die for this country, leave their families and lives for months, or years, at a time to protect you, oh no we wouldn't want to think about the good that they do. The troops are regular people and make regular mistakes just like anyone else. I read the Public Safety Report every morning and only every now and then does it say the person is from FT WW or Eielson.
Thank You Troops For All You Do!!
newsreader - anyone who commits a crime, especially one as heinous as rape, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, regardless of whether that person is military or not. I don't think that any of us would suggest excusing someone from prosecution if that person is found guilty of violent law-breaking (or non-violent) - that's like excusing the captain of the football team because he's captain - just silly. There is no excuse for or excusing criminal behavior. I think those of us who sound like we may be excusing the behavior are disliking that the military is being singled out as a group here. I can clearly see when I read the police blotter that most criminal activity is not coming from the military (anecdotal evidence, true), but beyond that, most military members are male young adults, and the violent male young adults would probably be violent regardless of their service status. Their violent behavior could more likely be chalked up to their demographics, not whether they are military or not.
Dana-
I can't find and guess I don't know where to look for study of the impact (good and bad) of the military on crime in the communities in which they are stationed. Ideas? Man, I think I need a sociologist here... maybe they can point me in the right direction or tell my how to conduct an unbiased study of my own. Is there a sociologist in the house?
So yes, anecdotal is probably correct. It would be great to say I've never heard the stories, read the police blotter, or been negatively impacted by the military. But, like newsreader, I know a lot of women and underage girls with some awful stories.
Imusuallyright: "I can't find and guess I don't know where to look for study of the impact (good and bad) of the military on crime in the communities in which they are stationed. Ideas? Man, I think I need a sociologist here..."
Let me suggest that what you need is a librarian. We have a public library and a university library in town; you are welcome to use the resources -- including librarians trained to find quality information -- of both.
--Paul Adasiak (a librarian)
Imusuallyright - It sounds to me as if you have a prejudice toward the military then, my friend. I find that sad.
There are bad folk in the military. But there are bad folk who aren't. I was an underage girl in Fairbanks - who you are threatened by is impacted highly by who you hang out with. I know a woman who was raped as a young girl by a man whose race differed from hers (he was from FAIRBANKS and never prosecuted BTW) - she doesn't apply that one person's violent behavior to the entire group. There are many, MANY service-members who are honorable people, or just not violent, and they should not be colored as anything else because of the actions of a few.
No one should be excused from committing any sort of crime. But as a sister of a deployed soldier and the daughter of a retired Special Forces soldier, please remember that a few bad apples don't ruin the entire orchard. I understand that there's members of the armed forces that do not live up to the ideals of the military but should we really generalize for an entire group? Just please keep that in mind when writing about the military as a whole.
Imusuallyright... Should probably change your name to ImAlwaysLeft.
The majority of the military, whether it is here and anywhere in the world, are law abiding citizens who volunteered to defend our constitution. Yes, there are a minute percentage of people who commit crimes. What you fail to see, through your liberal glasses, is the fact that only 0.5% of the entire United States population has ever raised their right hand and served this great country. To simple throw a blanket on the military and call them rapists and child molesters is appaling. Why don't you check your local area for sex predators and find out just how many there are who are not affiliated with the military. There are probably a few right in your neighborhood.
Get over yourself and do something horrific. Walk up to a Soldier, Marine, Sailor, Airman or Coast Guardsmen and shake their hand and thank them for their service. The ability for you to read, write, protest, discriminate and any other function you decide was given to you by your military shedding blood somewhere in history.
As your hero Johnny Cochran once said "If the glove does not fit, you must acquit."
I misread your post, Imusuallyright, I thought you said you didn't care to find stats (my own bias showing there). Perhaps "prejudice" was too strong a word to use there - my apologies. The other things I've written here stand though. Judging a group by actions of few individuals tends to be inaccurate.
BigDan- You get the irony!
Paul-
A librarian will help me find information, but a sociologist would help me interpret it. I do find librarians pretty darn helpful, though.
I don't have many friends in the military - here or elsewhere and honestly tend to shy away from the whole military culture. Still, the military is a part of the fabric of Fairbanks and it is silly to denigrate them in the way that some of these comments have. I say - celebrate the diversity of Fairbanks! And there will always be crime, it is best to get a handle on how to prevent it by understanding the demographics better.
And BigDan - I disagree - you say: "What you fail to see, through your liberal glasses, is the fact that only 0.5% of the entire United States population has ever raised their right hand and served this great country."
Um, what about teachers, public servants, nurses and doctors, overseas aid workers, the Katrina volunteers...? Get a grip, being in the military is a good choice for some, but others choose their service in a different way.
BailedEels - The professions you mention are absolutely vital to our nation; you are 100% correct. But you can certainly see that there is a difference between them and those that are available to sacrifice their life and limb? I see a rather large difference between fire fighters, police officers and military members and teachers, nurses and politicians. Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that the former are in any way better than the latter, it takes us all to make a (great) society, but there is a difference. I'm thinking this was what BigDan war referencing - those willing (and able) to sacrifice bodily. I don't think he was saying that one job-class of people is better than another. 'Course, I could be wrong.
GO MILITARY IN IRAQ....booo to the trouble making buttheads here....
BailedEels, "Um, what about teachers, public servants, nurses and doctors, overseas aid workers, the Katrina volunteers...? Get a grip, being in the military is a good choice for some, but others choose their service in a different way."
Yes they do, and they are an integral part of society. Don't tell Imusuallysright but they probably commit crimes in Fairbanks too.
Obviously the military is a unique organiztion. We go where we are told to go when we are told to go there. We do this because we volunteered to do it. We don't strike (teachers); we don't vote on our own pay raises (public Servants); we don't openly display our political preferences (overseas aid workers); we did assist with Katrina and every other natural disaster or manmade disaster (9/11)).
We didn't complain, we didn't bicker, we served!
Now saying that it isn't a military vs civilian mentality that I am trying to articulate. Just show a little respect and reverence when you decide to single out a portion of society and paint them as bad.
We are all in this together and though some pull more of the load than others, it is for a common goal.
Dana VanDam - You are correct, it takes a special person(s) to volunteer to put their life on the line.
Maybe it's because so many judges are still handing "military service or prison" sentences to young convicts. For the judges, it's a convenient way to ship their problems somewhere else. For the military. it's a big headache because those same young people are likely to commit more crimes once they're in uniform. Ask any senior NCO; the time, paperwork, and resources needed to handle a problem passed off on the military by lazy judges is an unnecessary and unwanted drain.
LargeDaniel-
"Don't tell Imusuallysright but they probably commit crimes in Fairbanks too." --I believe I questioned whether military folks seemed to commit crimes at a higher rate than other groups. I did not call them all bad, but make no secret of my distrust of the military-- just like some folks here have made no secret of their distrust of leftleaners.
Funny, everyone is very upset that I seemed to make a "blanket statement", but, at the same time, have been incredibly quick to put my question in any context they wish.
Imusuallyright is an idiot. Where would you be without the brave men and women protecting your right to type here? Whether you realize it or not, the military is held to a higher standard, it’s called the "Uniformed Code of Military Justice". I also suggest that if you need to have a sociologist to help you "interpret" your findings, learn to act and think for yourself instead of relying on others to form your opinions on your behalf.
The business leaders came together during the BRAC process because they knew what would happen to Fairbanks if the military left the area. Of course I am sure that you know much more than local leaders do in this area as well, so they must have acted on unfounded info. My suggestion to you is move to a foreign country which does not require you to live or associate with a military member. When you get there, let me know what kind of living conditions you have =)
One more thing to think about being that you posted first. This article was about the good things that a select few soldiers and airmen have done by going above and beyond what was expected of them. To take this article in the direction that you have says something about you as a person, its not neccisarily a good thing...
On a national scale, members of the military are much less likely to be involved in crime than members of the same age and gender cohorts, on a per capita basis. So yes, military members are more likely to rape than 4 year old boys or 80 year old women, but are less likely than 20 something year old civilian men.
Ohh Mel1776 I love your stats! Where did they come from so I can use them in the future?
Imusuallyright - You want us to take what you had to say contextually, but are you giving "the folks of Ft.WW and Eielson" that same benefit of context?
You suggest in as albeit inoffensive a manner as possible that the military causes more crime in the area than "any other group" (by phrasing an opinion as a question), follow it up with you'd like to see the military leave ("(I can't ask the military to leave. (Although I would love to.)") and then get frustrated with the rest of us for calling you on it? That makes very little sense.
I appreciate anecdotal evidence, I've used it myself, but it certainly isn't proof or reason to base dislike of an entire group. There are many who appreciate a military and a military presence and will stand up when they see an unnecessary and baseless slam.
Without the military here, Fairbanks would suffer, but I have my doubts as to whether they would suffer from less crime.
(hey, any business owners care to share how much business they lost when Wainwright deployed and their families went home? how about anecdotal evidence against other "groups" that lets you dislike those groups now? any takers?)
Don't go too far now, Dana.
Otherwise I may have to point out that several bars in town banned the military because they were causing so many problems after they came back from being deployed... [At least that was the story that I got.]
It's just boys being rowdy and blowing off steam - I know that. However, it was a big enough problem that local businesses DID single out the group.
Yes, newsreader, fair enough - point taken. The military also occasionally bans their own from certain places around town as well - but I don't hold that against those businesses either ;)
Dana VanDam,
I believe a study or article used DoJ (Department of Justice) and DoD (Department of Defense) and Japanese databases and I remember that the cohorts compared was 18-36 year old military and civilian males, but I don't recall the link (and I noticed that posts with links tend to be deleted as what I assume are potentially free advertisements).
The study was in response to the complaints in Japan on the recent incidents by American personnel there (replace those American personnel with Japanese men in the same age group and crime would increase, thus the protests seem to be more nationalist/racist than legitimate or they would protest all such suspected crimes). It was also likely in respose to a recent NYT article that implied that returning veterans were more violent because they were mentally and emotionally damaged by their experience (while ignoring higher numbers by civilians).
As a side note, if one needs aid in understanding statistics one should turn to an economist (social scientist) and not a sociologist (social philosopher). Nowadays economists look at all social issues and their Ph.D.s are essentially mathematicians who specialize in social issues while the other “social scientists” are still primarily speculative and philosophical/historical based.
Out of curiosity, I decided to look at the Newsminer's Public Safety Report for today, March 26th:
Assaults, based on residence as listed in the report:
-- Fairbanks = five
-- North Pole = one
-- Tanana = one
-- Circle = one
-- Fort Wainwright = none
-- Eielson AFB = none
Assaults, by age as listed in the report: 19, 21, 28, 30, 40, 43, 43, and 56.
DUI, based on residence as listed in the report:
-- Fairbanks = eight
-- North Pole = two
-- Wasilla = one
-- Alaska = one
-- Olathe, Kansas = one
-- Fort Wainwright = three
-- Eielson AFB = none
Notes:
-- Three of the assaults were people attacking relatives.
-- Two of the assaults were by people in the same age group as most military personnel but other information in the report indicates they were probably not in the military.
-- More than 81% of the DUIs were from somewhere other than Fort Wainwright or Eielson AFB
-- One of the DUIs was caught by the Fort Wainwright police and probably turned over to local authorities for prosecution.
-- Were the three Fort Wainwright DUIs military personnel or dependent civilians.
-- The three Fort Wainwright DUIs will face additional sanctions once the local authorities are through with them, including suspension of driving privileges and possible punitive action under the UCMJ.
-- How many of the people in the report are affiliated with UAF, as students, researchers, administration, or professors?
Should I continue or is that enough statistics? (Maybe I should analyze previous Public Safety Reports to see if today's report is an anomaly?)
I agree with Rubit....hats off to ya. You are so right about them not pointing out the negatives of the military when BRAC was visiting. Instead, the people lobbied for the stay and brought out how Galena will not lose a thing if the military was closed there. Now, look at Galena, they are fighting to find ways to keep the town running. Are any of you Fairbanksans trying to help them out? Maybe you should reconsider and let Galena open the base back up and close the ones in Fairbanks if you think they are nothing but trouble. Take that to the bank.
What a shame to try to desecrate a moment of honor for our heroes by injecting your anti-military diatribe. Shame on you.
I got two things to say.. first off BIGDAN, your response was awesome!
Secondly.. without the military... FOLKS THERE IS NO TOWN! The military is what gives this boring city revenue! That is why when a unit gets deployed, businesses suffer, it is quieter here and there is less money being spent in the city. Does anyone take a moment to think about that. Walmart, Sams Club, Fred's.. all of these stores would have almost NO customers if it wasn't for the military. Open up your eyes people. Don't judge the best thing about the USA and our freedom fighters.. the UNITED STATES MILITARY over some peoples bad mistakes and poor behavior. That is not fair to the people that are kind and decent. Not everyone in the military is a wife beater, racist, or drunk biggot.
people are people, criminals infest all areas of society, however, military types are no better than any other private citizens and should act and be treated accordingly. America has a very large population of veterans and most have served in conflicts far worse than the Iraq occupation. My point is, with all these military and former military types inhabiting all socio-economic levels, can we say that they are contributing to criminal activity? Don't think so. but, in times of war the levels of acceptance are sometimes lowered to achieve recruitment quotas. I read recently that the U.S. Army (our most recruit-lenient of the services) has had to lower it's standards in order to maintain the manpower needed to operate efficiently, so could these troops be of concern? (playing Devil's advocate here).
Personally i believe that singling out one specific group of people and presenting anecdotal hear-say that slanders their character and integrity is a form of bigotry.
it is the 'all-volunteer" military and all that implies.
Nice research Griff in Fbks.
Sorry to all soliders that this article has been taken hostage.
You deserve all the good that comes your way and God Bless You.
Remember imusuallyright, freedom isn't free. You have the right to say what you want, but be conscious as to why you have that right.
I am a vet -13 yrs Army MEDIC
I am a current NREMT - I help with the motor cross track as a safety in North Pole.
I stop at every accident or broke down car.
I support the troops and wish more of the pitiful town of Fairbanks did.
OUTSIDE FT LEWIS ARE HUGE BANNERS WELCOMING HOME TROOPS - SUPOPORTING TROOPS - YELLOW RIBBONS EVERYWHERE!!!!
Many families are on their 3rd or 4th deployment to IRAQ or somewhere in the desert. They fight to keep your freedom of speech, by defending the Constitution of the United States.
They are the real Americans.
Quit the troop bashing. They are the town of Fairbanks bread and butter. No Troops= No Money = No town.
Look at the Police report this usually says it all, Troops are punished for DUI
offenses. Also if a troop comits a crime with a firearm - the Lautenburg Act - removes that soldier from the Army ASAP - No contact with weapons allowed so soldier cannot perform their job. BU BUY they are gone.
Soldiers buy your goods.
Soldiers save your lost hunters.
Soldiers buy your cars.
Soldiers rent and buy local homes.
Soldiers support your community in more money donations than the average JOE.
Quit yer whining -
If you haven't been there shut yer hole.
PS TROOPS BUILT THE ALCAN HIGHWAY-MY GRANFATHER WAS ONE OF THESE MEN.
Go TROOPS - May God Watch Over You and Your Family...
Just as an example. The MedEvac Helicopters are going to be leaving and now the (free) service they have been providing has to be (not free) replaced. The community (and the State) respond with great indignation and ask questions like, "how dare you leave? Now what?".
Imususallyright (who seldom if ever is) was able to divert a good thing, recognizing military heroes, into his usual dungpile of despising anything that is pro-American. He is probably grinning from ear to ear. Maybe more.
Forget the sociologist, get a psychiatrist.
I am a military wife of 18 years, my husband and the men & women of the United States Military are HERO'S. Regardless of what Imusuallyright thinks. This city and it's people stand behind them and support them and us spouses. So Thank you Fairbanks for your support of our military and families.
God Bless America, Land of the free.
My husband was one of the awardees last night at the Military Appreciation Banquet.
I just want to return a Huge thanks to the Fairbanks community for taking the time to show us you care.
Fairbanks treats their service men and woman the best by far of any towns i have ever lived in.
thank you.
Imusuallyright....I think your name says it all. I would hate to go through life thinking like you do. My father served in the military in Canada, my husband served in the army here, my father in law served in the Navy and my son is in the Navy. They are all are and were good people. Shame on you for your comments. There are good and bad people in every group or class of people. You should look at life with a more positive attitude and maybe you will be a happier person.
We can live the way we live because of the mility past and present, we should be thankful for them, don't condem everyone for one or two people's actions. I thank anyone that has served our country, thank you!
Just because you are in the military doesn't automatically make you a hero. Hero is a strong word - let's please not misuse it and take honor away from those who should be given that title (like the Coast Guard rescue swimmer who gave up his seat on the helicopter for a survivor from the AlaskaRanger. He is a hero.)
One definition of hero from dictionary.com: "A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war."
Sounds like anyone willing to sacrifice his or her life for you to me.
Um, no Dana VanDam. I think it is anyone who HAS sacrificed his or her life for someone or something else. Besides, let's not even get into the whole fact that many young people join the military because they have no other options. That is hardly heroic - that is manipulation by the U.S. government.
Suffice it to say that I think you are wrong BailedEels. They are heroes to me.
Dana - once again, you go too far. I know that you have a very close personal bias and you want to support the troops, but you saying that ALL soldiers are heros is like me saying that ALL christians are bad - it is simply not reality.
What about those soldiers in the video with the naked Iraqi prisoners we saw a few years back? What about those that imported all that heroin on military transports during Viet Nam (my understanding is that American Gangster was based on a true story, right?) [In fact, I'd be willing to bet the same thing is going on in Afghanistan right now - according to what I've read they currently produce 90% of the world's supply of heroin]
My point is not that soldiers are bad - as I said before - I'm sure that an overwhelming number are good people and I praise them for their courage.
What I am saying is beware absolutes - they lead to blind-faith, which leads to just plain blindness...
Ya know, I find it very offensive that all the military in Fairbanks are being grouped into the catagory as trouble makers. There are a few bad apples in every group you come across. If you do the crimes you need to do the time is my way of thinking and the military are a lot harder on their people when they commit crimes then the civilian community. imusuallyright needs to wake up and get a life. You can not tell me that you believe all of the thousands of FT WW and Eielson military and members are bad apples. Well, maybe you do, it sure sounds like it. I can guarentee that if ALL the military left Fairbanks that there would still be just as much crime.
You have your freedom because of all the things that the military does to give you that. So, with that said. Wake up and smell the coffee. Not every member who serves in the military are bad. MOST are good law abiding people just like all of you.
newsreader - While I agree with you on the surface, let me say this (if I didn't make the distinction before, I'll make it now): They are heroes to me for signing up to place their lives on the line for the regular guy, sacrificing their own safety and comfort for the common good - fire fighters have this same place for me, as does my father and my husband. Can they choose, by virtue of their actions, to lose that status? Absolutely. Should they get special treatment on the basis of the job that they hold? No, but I will buy a soldier lunch if I have an opportunity to do so. I'm not attributing blanket altruism to these folks here though, and maybe that's where we're getting hung up.
It's not blind faith to me in this case, newsreader, it's an ingrained respect for those that choose these types of jobs, to protect me and my family, that I can't do myself. Does this respect trump common sense and behavior? No. If it did, that would be blind-faith, don't you think?
I suppose in the end that it's possible that you are correct, that I am using absolutes and suffering blind faith here - I don't really think so, but I'm willing to entertain the possibility. I know they all have feet of clay, some bigger than others. I know they are only human - I'm not suffering hero-worship here. But I also know that in cases of emergency, these men and women will be out in the thick of it, for duty, for honor, for a paycheck, to not lose face, to keep their job, for whatever reason - not all or even most being altruistic - while others benefit. I will most likely be home, concentrating on mine.
I figured that you would come to that, and I agree. It takes one hell of a lot of guts to sign your name on that dotted line. One hell of a lot more than I have, that's for sure. So, in that regard, I suppose we should consider that act (at least) to be "heroic".
I still do, however, think that you boarder on blind-"patriotism" sometimes. [Just my opinion].
My heroes are people who think for themselves and form their own opinions about something despite the popular rhetoric that swirls around them.
It's possible, newsreader, it's possible (I don't really think I'm that deluded, but stranger things have happened). I hope you're wrong - I don't want to be blind-anything, but we all have our biases I suppose. In the interest of future balanced thought and commentary, I will do my best not to cross that border. I'm sure you will call me on it when I do; but I enjoy questioning myself, although sometimes I don't like the answers that I find.
While I'm being rational, and I may contradict myself later, my country is made up of humans, and is thus, imminently fallible in any number of ways.
OMG! These people are DYING so you can have the legal right to bash them. If they were given special privelages you wouldn't read about them being arrested. They are held to a higher standard. They get a DUI and they are in big trouble buddy. They don't pay a bill and they get reamed by their boss. They have to mix their personal life and work life 24/7. I know there are bad military guys, just like civilian guys. Do not belittle these peoples ackomplishments because of a few bad apples. The people being honored here are obviously risking their lives for you. And I would like to point out that an overwhelming amount of crime/dui's here are men period.
We need to stop pretending this war has anything to do with right and liberties.
We need to stop pretending this war has anything to do with rights and liberties.
Scrabble....so what does this war have to do with? If it is not rights and liberties what is it?
No one posts a comment like the one that started this conversation without expecting a lot of flack, at least not in a red state. Discussion is almost always a good thing. Thanks for the comment Imoftenwrong. Keep tilting at windmills.
I appreciate all the many contributions the military makes in our community as well as many communities around the country. I don't think our men and women in Iraq are dying for our rights and liberties. I think they are dying because many lies were told to get us into this horrible war by the current administration.
OMG Dan you don’t really believe this war is a response to some threat to our rights do you? This war is a tragic miscalculation by the worst president our country has ever elected (TWICE!) Our soldiers are dying for reasons I can’t fathom and supporters can’t articulate. I seem to remember some justification like a mushroom cloud that turned out to be a bunch of horse dung.
I pesonally did not feel that we were under any threat of invasion by Iraq, and, I defy anyone to show me proof that Saddam had iminent plans to invade US soil.
So, in that sense, this war is certainly not about protecting my freedom. It really is that simple.
Take off your political blinders for a moment. I don't think anyone stated that we invaded Iraq because they were going to invade the US. We invaded Iraq to take on terrorists who threatened world stability. I am not making excuses for our political leaders for their reasoning. Our military did what they were told to do, nothing more, nothing less. There has not been another terrorist attack on our soil since then. Although Iraq has become a quagmire it is not the fault of the military personnel.
Newsreader: Perhaps if you had been in the World Trade center when the 2 planes hit you would think differently. because it does not immediately afffect you, you feel no sense of insecurity.
Scrabble: Worst President ever. Thanks Bill Clinton for introducing our young children to oral sex in the White House with a woman other than his wife. There is a moral leader if I have ever seen one.
Bottom line is these few Soldier were recognized by this community for what they did, not what political party they belong to.
Obviously you’re right. Bill Clinton tried and succeeded in forcing us to acknowledge that he received oral sex. Conservatives and the media tried everything in their power to keep the gruesome truth from us but to no avail. Then Larry Flint tried to push Henry Hyde’s infidelity and sexual exploits into focus. Wow everybody was out to expose our children to sex.
Bye the way if you take a look at the congressional elections that followed the Clinton witch hunt you could conclude that America sort of blamed the Republicans for pushing that stuff into the spot light.
Scrabble: Last comment. Don't want to continue beating a dead horse. How can the Republicans push stuff to the media. The media is as left as they can get and the only Republican thing they push is when one screws up and they can highlight the negative. I see Pelosi and her posse have passed some real legislation since taking over.
Unfortunately, with it being an election year. Nothing substantive will come out of this years congress due to political correctness and not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings. To hell with what the people deserve.
Enjoy the banter. Makes for a healthy discussion.
Last comment is right.
The media will always report on a burning house all Republicans with the aid of Kenneth Star had to do was start the fire.
Your right discussion is great.
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UM...I just meant in general dying for our freedoms, not IRAQ in particular. People join the military to defend our country (not saying that is the reason, I am saying it is the objective and purpose). There is never an excuse to bash the military as a whole. Maybe some members, maybe some policies...but never the wounded, or the servicemen in general.
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