Alternative energy on the horizon for GVEA
Published Friday, June 27, 2008
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Stumble It!JUNEAU — With a little help from the state, Golden Valley Electric Association is looking to cut back on fossil fuels and start making hot water and power from the sun, the wind and the Nenana River current.
The Alaska Energy Authority, a public corporation of the state, this week gave the utility $212,000 to study four alternative energy projects across Golden Valley’s coverage area.
Two projects involve hydropower. The first would generate up to 50 megawatts of electricity at a dam on the Tanana River near Delta Junction. The second would make 10 megawatts of power from the Nenana River near Healy using generating units in the river rather than a dam.
A third project would generate up to 50 megawatts from wind turbines in the Eva Creek area near Healy, and the fourth would actually cut electricity usage by relying on solar energy to heat water at two facilities near Denali National Park and Preserve.
“This is kind of an opportunity to come up with some things that might be a little outside the box,” Golden Valley spokeswoman Dianne Porter said Thursday.
The grants are small in relation to the overall project costs. AEA put just $60,000 toward the dam project, which is expected to cost $130 million.
Porter said the grants will allow Golden Valley to assess the feasibility of the projects without using members’ money. The utility has pursued the wind power project for years, but the others are relatively new.
A total of about $5 million in grants was awarded statewide through a collaborative effort between AEA and the Denali Commission, a federal-state partnership.
Most of the 33 grants were awarded for pre-construction studies, but some grants were given for construction of alternative energy projects, including a geothermal power plant at Manley Hot Springs and a wood-fired heating system in Fort Yukon.
To qualify for the grants, project sponsors had to show the projects would save enough money in displaced fossil-fuel costs to offset the cost of construction. Three of the Golden Valley projects — all but the solar thermal project — are expected to pay for themselves two or three times over.
Karsten Rodvik, a spokesman for AEA, described the grants as a first step toward displacing costly fossil fuels and bringing down the cost of energy.
“The goal, of course, is the development of a long-term plan that provides low-cost, reliable, sustainable power,” he said.
According to Rodvik, AEA is planning to issue a similar request for proposals this summer for $50 million in grant money, or 10 times what was awarded this week, although the project criteria will likely be different.
The grants are considered helpful because alternative energy projects typically cost more to build than conventional energy projects. The projects can ultimately save money because they don’t require fuel.
State lawmakers and Gov. Sarah Palin agreed this year to put $250 million toward alternative energy projects during the next five years.
Community Discussion
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OK, is this where we are going to buy power from the companies that belong to the wives of the board members or ex board members. How many boondoggles are we the co-op members going to put up with. Every time gvea starts a new project it turn out to be obsolete before it goes on line or goes to arbitration for some mismanagement or it cost 3 times as much or it is insufficient like battery back-up or it never comes online. Please enough with the scotch, wine and cigars. All we ever get for sure are rate hikes.
yes I can see it now. THIS SUR CHARGE IS DUE TO THE RISING COST OF THE SUN.
GVEA can be cooperative and save $50k on consultants just by visiting this webpage-->
http://www.hydrovolts.com/Main%20Pages/H...
-----> OK,now that we just saved GVEA $50k they can take the $50k and pool it with the rest of the Sourdough Gas Passers Cooperative to help build the Alaska gasline neural-network.
[that's 50 little gaslines criss-crossing the state]
www.fairbanksgas.com
First Gasline to Fairbanks Wins!!!
.......splash/bubble
"The first would generate up to 50 megawatts of electricity at a dam on the Tanana River near Delta Junction"
What a waste of money. Twenty-four million metric tons of suspended sediment pass by Fairbanks every year in the Tanana River. Logic says a dam is not feasible because the massive silt load will fill in the dam in no time. And where exactly along the Tanana River near Delta Junction? Some of the most important salmon spawning beds in the river are located in that area.
How about fixing the Healy Coal plant already and saving the members from buying 2,500 gallons of fuel per hours for the North Pole plant? That's 1.8 million gallons per month!
Why does GVEA waste such a precious and expensive resource as petroleum on generation while the Healy Clean Coal plant sits idle next to such a massive supply of coal? Surely the members of the co-op would rather not pay the outrageous fuel surcharge. What is the board thinking? Or are they?
While some of these Ideas may be good ideas, they are long term, we need to get the Healy clean coal plant running and reduce rates and fuel surcharge NOW.
If there were half as many people in this community actively pursuing alternative solutions to our energy crisis as there are people who nay-say every idea, we'd have the problem half solved already. . .
Do any of you use alternative energy? Are any of you actively seeking ways to wean yourself from the oil addiction? Or are you just sitting there waiting for someone else to fix things for poor li'l ol' you? Can't wait to get that bonus money from the state to fix your problem, can ya'? Do YOU use coal to preserve such a "precious and expensive resource as petroleum"? You want energy on the cheap... you want someone else to pay to develop it... you want someone else to fix your problems... Such a sad state of affairs this country has come to. . . . . . What happened to self-reliance and ingenuity?
Listen to the GVEA rep on the radio, he never would say what kind of savings we would see if Healy came on. He also said the price of operation was unrealistic when oil was cheap, but did not give the figure of what it would have cost then. Exactly what is the estimated cost of this energy if it comes on. Who is going to pay the millions to bring it on line and all the other hidden cost? Even if it came on, maybe all it would do is stabilize the rate at 25 cents a kilowatt. Who knows.
It looks they are now saying oil will be $7 a gallon within the year. With the three months delay in GVEA cost increase, we should be seeing the effect of $140 a barrel just as winter starts. Even if Healy was settled today, he said it would be 18 to 24 months before it would be operational. All these other projects are long term. What are people going to do in the next couple months, let alone years.
Here's an engine you can burn liquid-coal in...
http://www.ttengines.com/technology.html...
==============
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directo....
Some of you might know the guy in Fairbanks who is the patent-holder for silveradogreenfuel...
...if you do, tell him about the possibilities of using this engine to burn his fuel that costs 25cents/gallon to make.
You can use this silveradogreenfuel and this engine to power generators for the villages.
.....flash/rumble
Some of you people are just pathetic. Fairbanks has more than it's share of the end of the road, shallow end of the gene pool, KFAR listening, paranoid acting, conspiracy believing, anti government everything types that aren't happy unless you are slamming everything that becomes before you. Bunch of Donna Gilbert/Frank Turney types. Not all mind you, but no wonder everyone down south looks down at Fairbanks. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Thought the people down south would have to look up north, not down to see Fairbanks, arcticracer.
Baby steps are better then no steps I suppose. Damming the Tanana is really not a good plan. Nothing is going to become of any attempt to get away from oil if the state doesn't put its money solidly behind new infrastructure. Making the rate payers solve it with skyrocketing bills will never work. All the state seems to be able to do is focus on building the gas line and to hand out money to an ever dependent population. Maybe Distant Thunder is right, that plastic gas lines run all over the state and gas fired co-gens would be a short term answer while we invest in the long term with hydro, and wind, something that will be there long after they have extracted everything out of here in huge pipelines.
NO PROBLEM HERE, WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM IS COMMON REACTION IN ANCHORAGE.The major reason that Anchorage looks at Fairbanks sideways is more of economics than disgust. Anchorage has been help with their electicity by lower than market value natural gas. When we are increasing charges, they are lowering there cost. Alaska either needs to give everyone same equilization of energy as Anchorage or discontinue Anchorage equalization rates so they will feel the same pain we have been seeing. I quess we have to even be more vocal for everyone to understand!
State cosponsor electical grid down from slope generation for all!
Can we have a new electric utility?
I keep seeing people want to build a big electrical generating powerplant on the North Slope....
....BAD IDEA !!!
WHY???
TOO MUCH HEAT !!!
there's already too much heat being spilled out of BIG-OIL's operations on the slope...
...just fly around there wearing infrared goggles, you'll see.
The northslope is on the edge of another major catastrophic fire like the huge tundra fire last year that burned wall to wall between the Nanushuk and Itkillik, right over the top of the shallow Gubik gasfield... if a gasfield blows the windspeed in Chicago will be 300mph.
see the slideshow at...
www.fairbanksgas.com
It's much better to declare an emergency and starve the potential conflagrations from the fuel source and hurry up and build as many little plastic gaslines as possible southward thru every pass in the Brooks Range.
USE IT BEFORE YOU LOSE IT !!!
......flash/rumble
arcticracer ... your sort of stealing my thunder bud!
the only think you left out was the winning about give me free money. These same folks live hand to mount. You can give them $10 today and they will spend $11 and be looking for another $10. It is a way of life for them .... hand in everyone else’s pocket and always, and I do mean always, right on the edge of their means.
I think they are collecting in open fields (if any are left)and waiting for the "mother ship" to arrive ...lol.
But, I must admit that GVEA really has done us dirty and we can thank the BOD going back about 15 years to present and the last two captains at the helm.
212,000 a lot of money to "study alternative energy projects" why don't they just listen to some of their customers... the answer lies with in us rather then in 212,000 dollars worth of studies just to come up with an idea that will end up costing us more money.
James rote>>
the only think you left out was the winning about give me free money. These same folks live hand to mount. You can give them $10 today and they will spend $11 and be looking for another $10. It is a way of life for them .... hand in everyone else’s pocket and always, and I do mean always, right on the edge of their means.
Yeah James, it seems everyone has their hand out for free money these days. Even corporations that own refineries! I suspect that there are more then a few right wingers out there who on a good year would be completely against any form of financial aid for any individual but who this year are starting to wonder if they are going to be chopping up the new furniture for firewood come February. I also suspect that the numbers of anti socialist welfare haters who will be jumping ship, palms up are going to increase probably around when their second or third fuel bill comes. Of course there will always be people like you James who have deep pockets (from frugal saving and hard hard work no doubt) who will never need stoop to putting your hand out for anything. Good for you!!
what is the cost per kilowatt-hour spread over the lifetime of each of these "alternative energy" projects relative to the cost of comparable "conventional energy" projects that use locally available resources like coal or natural gas? is cost to "members" the top priority of GVEA?
"The grants are considered helpful because alternative energy projects typically cost more to build than conventional energy projects. The projects can ultimately save money because they don’t require fuel."
So am I going to pay more or less for energy derived from alternative sources rather than conventional and diversified sources? The answer here seems to be "yes" and isn't very useful
this seems like an opportunity for in-depth reporting.
I wish they could've put the money towards turning the Healy plant into an operating one.
emo, Short term, yes, you will pay more for alternative power options, but only if the state sits on its billions and doesn't invest. Long term no, you will pay much less, or maybe your children will depending on how slow we are to react to this crisis. Juneau's "Snett" hydro electric project is around 7 cents a KWH. Unless rainfall is light, or an avalanche takes out the line it is always going to be low in Juneau as there is no world market effects on instantly used as it is produced power. At 7 cents, it could be argued the need for fuel oil for heat in a home at all.
I like it! Build a powerhouse on the slope and use the excess that the oil gobblers are burning off which could help generate power for the interior and the cost of putting up transmission lines are a hell of a lot cheaper than a gas line. Maybe 2 1/2 years away from start up. But leave gvea out of the equation.
Shame on our government for giving handouts to big coorporations that are passing their research, development, profit, and litigation costs to the consumers! As they call on us to tighten our energy belts our government needs to call on the business community to put solutions on the table. As a private citizen I don't expect a grant for my opinion or research, and neither should coorporate Alaska for producing a buisiness model. After all, they are going to choose the most profitable plan to the coorporations. Is there not a civic responsibility except for the individual? I think every business that gets paid by the State should be asking the legislature how their business can help the state in return. Go to the AK State Checkbook and see the list of thousands of buisnesses getting state funds for services, grants, and merchandise.
This is what happens when people let special interests have more influence in the government than private citizens. We have a state funded program to study these things it's called the University of Alaska Engineering Department. They are an award winning nationally recognized group, and should be contributors to the state which is funding their collective existance.
Everyone complaining about the GIMME attitude needs to realize that people not businesses are hurting while the state gives out grants to businesses. GVEA and other utility providers are not going broke by passing on their cost to their "members".
As for the hydro plant at Delta, the last time I checked, you can build a hydro turbine (also known as a water wheel) that is bypassable by the main channel and silt without a dam.
Distant Thunder, thanks (finally) for the explanation as to why you are against putting a power plant on the north slope. You didn't answer my question on the economic feasability, and I understand the risk. As for heat generation, it is the same mute argument of global warming. Putting it in Cold Foot would seem a sensible compromise to pumping all that explosive gas 350 miles and not have the plant sitting on the big gas bubble. Based on the "facts" in your post we should all start digging a bomb shelter because it's not a matter of if it will go, it is a matter of when.
I'd also like to point out that powerlines do not magically hold thier charge forever. I'm no expert, but a powerline from the North Slope to Fairbanks would probably only see about 4% of the power generated actually reach our city.
Though it would be nice if there were some power source for villagers outside of flown-in diesel.
What would you guys think about a business selling/installing small home/community based renewable energy systems? Set up a small factory in Fairbanks to make and market consumer oriented solar, wind and water turbines to Alaskans, small village communities and international/lower48 markets. Imagine the market for renewable energy technology that is designed and built to withstand -50 F weather. Canadian and Russian communities would be chomping at the bit.
I'll bet $250,000,000 would buy a good few windmill generators for the villages,no studying or wasting money on "research" necessary, it's not like the powers that be are having a hard time which system would actually work the best, they already know that. What they are having a hard time with is who's gonna make the most money.
Isanova sez: I'd also like to point out that powerlines do not magically hold thier charge forever. I'm no expert, but a powerline from the North Slope to Fairbanks would probably only see about 4% of the power generated actually reach our city.
Nope, you are way off here. You step the voltage up high enough you will send nearly 100% of the power generated the 500 miles.
Look into the GVEA SNAP and get ready to laugh, wow what great incentives for the homeowner to contribute to the grid system.....its time to allow the homeowner the ability to sell back the power to GVEA at a reduced rate, so the homeowner recoups some cost, and GVEA obtains power without using fossil fuels. Wind turbines, and solar and or the combo of both are feasible for the individual homeowner at a big initial purchase price.
akbearable: do you have a link to a peer-reviewed reference that details how long it will take "alternative energy" to pay off in Fairbanks? Last I checked, Fairbanks is a long way from Juneau so it seems to me that locally available coal or (soon) natural gas is likely to be the most cost effective energy source for the next 50-100 years.
How many years do you think this discussion will last, while we are waiting for something to be done. Until Americans ( note I said Americans, just not Alaskans) reach the point of, we are not going to take this anymore and show the rest of the world we mean business; what do you expect to change.
Isanova,
Hoover Dam powers most of the Southwest US. There is a way to transmit that power without loss over vast distances. Our university engineering department has the details. Like LostAlaskan99712, I know the answers are known, available, and affordable. Time is not on our side. Our legislature needs to get off their chair cushions and write the contracts to get it built instead of doling out grants to secure their future positions on a coorporate board of directors.
GVEA is doing many studies envolving ALternative Energy trying to find ways to reduce energy cost. I was wondering if there have been any studies into building a nuclear plant in the interior. The up front cost may be large, but it might be a viable way to reduce fossile fuel consuption. With a nuclear plant Fairbanks could be come a self sustaining hydrogen community
Worried about this upcoming winter???
looks to me thar's 5 main choices..
wood
coal
...go buy a LPG-bobtail truck,
or go on vacation in CostaRica..
..or go gold mining at my winter digs.
you won't mind frostbite when picking nuggets at $1000/oz
[carry a good pocket warmer]
...why a LPG-bobtail ???
if ya know who to blow, you can get free raw field gas on the slope.
85%-methane
15%-NGL's
...with the right setup on the truck you can jigger the thing, and come home with a 75% load of propane.
...or if ya got some extra placer hidden in a jar under your dog-house, then we can pool our dust and build a gasine cooperative.
www.fairbanksgas.com
..it's possible little plastic gaslines are cheaper per unit of power over cost of installation and maintenance over 50years.
[I'll have to twiddle the OuijaBoard Magic-8ball Laptop-computer thingy to figger it out]
.....flash/rumble
GVEA is wasting our dollars on ventures that are not producing a return and hiding it with a shell game.
They should not be burying so much fiber cable as it has nothing to do with our electricity.
shhhh,, you can't say Nuclear hear... I think it is taboo, as a result of myths from long ago when nu-- was in it's infancy and they had some problems at a plant that released a small amount of radio active material, the place was called Three Mile Island. Estimates are that the average dose to about 2 million people in the area was only about 1 millirem. To put this into context, exposure from a full set of chest x-rays is about 6 millirem. Compared to the natural radioactive background dose of about 100-125 millirem per year for the area, the collective dose to the community from the accident was very small. The maximum dose to a person at the site boundary would have been less than 100 millirem.
plus exxon doesn't make reactors
and the bush's wouldn't make a profit, unless they pulled out of the oil industry and invested in NUCLEAR POWER.
FUSION IS THE FUTURE!
Here's an alt-energy gizmo that will keep ya warm all winter just reading the book here you can download online...
http://www.blacklightpower.com/
...it's fun stuff like this that makes all the bigwigs grind their teeth at night.
I know an old guy from Astoria who's taken a tour of the company in Cranbury,NJ... he's afraid to tell just how much energy you can get from a gallon of the exotic fuel this thing runs on...
exotic fuel ?
..
..
whutt kinda exotic fuel is it?
.......water.
Someday the world will catch up to where Robert Bussard was at last year when he passed on.
Some of you people are just pathetic. Fairbanks has more than it's share of the end of the road, shallow end of the gene pool, KFAR listening, paranoid acting, conspiracy believing, anti government everything types that aren't happy unless you are slamming everything that becomes before you. Bunch of Donna Gilbert/Frank Turney types. Not all mind you, but no wonder everyone down south looks down at Fairbanks. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Arctic Racer if you are just a digital troll from down south which most of the folks from Fairbanks look down upon. Then move along. Fairbanks Gas and Thunder offer a lot of good comments on these forums. I myself do not waste much time and effort as I do not really care what happens any longer. I will soon remove myself from the grid and society as I do not care to live in a town that is mostly government and military. I will get moose and burn wood and enjoy a better life.
As far as I am concerned Anchorage and most of Southeast are suburbs of Seattle more then part of Alaska.
Pat
Btw arctic racer the name suggest someone in the Northern half of the state so.....
Pat
"I will soon remove myself from the grid and society"
you should read in on the Jon Krakauer book "into the wild", read the accounts of people that have tried to do just what you're going to, read how they all ended up almost dying not from lack of wilder-skill but from lack of human contact and the insanity that often followed.
"I began my adult life with the hypothesis that it could be possible to become a Stone Age native. For over 30 years, I programmed and conditioned myself to this end. In the last 10 of it, I would say I realistically experienced the physical, mental, and emotional reality of the Stone Age. But to borrow a Buddhist phrase, eventually came a setting face-to-face with pure reality. I learned that it is not possible for human beings as we know them to live off the land."
--Gene Rosellini
According to GVEA the Large General Service users account for 53% of usage and the most expensive power (from North Pole) is 45% of the total used.
Who are the largest users? I'd guess Fort Knox, Pogo, Pump Station 8, and the missile defense stuff at Ft. Greely would be in that list.
I seem to remember GVEA restructured the rates and now the smaller users of electricity pay a higher rate per kWh than the larger. Is that a correct memory? If so, shouldn't we as a member owned co-op vote to change that so the more power you consume, the higher the price per kWh?
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