Letter to the Editor
Good old USA
Published Monday, June 16, 2008
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Stumble It!June 12, 2008
To the editor:
There’s a movie called “The Forgotten.” It’s about a mother who has memories of a child killed in a plane crash. People are telling her she never had a son and, of course, she doesn’t believe them. Every day she goes over the details of his life so she won’t forget ... like the others have.
I am 50 years old. I remember the Cuban missile crisis, JFK’s assassination and his funeral. Your memories, like mine, are based on your past lifestyle in the Old America.
There is a movement in our country trying to redefine our values, our God, our way of life. They say change is necessary because our old way of life is outdated. Out with the old and in with the new, global citizen.
The reality is we’re in a major war, our economy is in a slump, our president — with Congress’ help, has borrowed billions of dollars from foreigners. We have borrowed against the future of our children’s children and they will probably suffer enormously for our lack of judgment. We have career politicians whose only care is for themselves, not our country’s welfare. The norm is political correctness. Even the Supreme Court has stepped on the bandwagon. Now our enemies have the same constitutional rights as American citizens.
Our borders are not secured, and there’s talk of a North American Union and a new currency: the Amero. Supposedly we’re required to obtain national ID cards in 2009. Finally, I mention Feinstein and Obama, who want to create a National Fingerprint Registry for real estate agents, mortgage lenders and bankers. Who’s next?
Meanwhile, the majority of Americans struggle with the daily task of feeding their families, keeping them warm in the winter, and buying gas for their vehicles. Our daily focus is on living hand-to-mouth while our enemies are passing the gate and nearing the sanctity of our homes. We’re being told we need to change the face of America. I won’t believe them. I remember the good old USA: traditional values and one nation under God.
Community Discussion
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What if your god is not my god?
"...one nation under god..." is just a little older than you are.
I'm sure the South thought the same thing during the Civil War.
But "...one nation, indivisible, with liberty..." (but without "under God") is older still. Wasn't "under God" added in the 1950s, as a reaction to our national fear of "godless communism"?
God God God God God
God God God God God
(OK, those of you gasping and writhing on the floor, I'm done. Please continue...)
come on pebbles, before 9-11 your question would be laughed at. One of the beliefs held here in America is the freedom of religion, you can chose to believe in whatever God you want. Furthermore, if something is right it can be timeless; it was said back in Moses time that we should not kill, steal or covent your neighbors wife. Just because that was said along time ago doesnt make it wrong or outdated, it actually shows that what is right and correct will stand the test of time.
The point of the letter, as far as I took it, was not about the last line being one nation under God but about all of us writting in on our comment posts, grumbling at the store lines, at work, and to our politicians, we have got to do more than stand around while all of these changes are being made for our 'own good' by our dignitaries, I mean elected officials. With so much information being thrown around these days it is easy to lose sight of the point to things every so often we need to take off the horse blinders quit focusing on wording and get the point being made even if you have to filter through the rhetoric to get there. Its called listening.
it doesnt matter what religion you are or not. God is still God.
If everyone has the same God, then why have so many people died over the centuries in the name of "their" God?
sir isaac newton used his mathematical prowess to try and predict when Christ would come for the second time like so many others have tried. the number he came up with was the year 2060. i'm starting to think that this man who lived hundreds of years ago is going to the be the closest in accuracy.
i remember the old america too. a lot of these people who post here aren't old enough to remember it. to them the way things are now are normal. they don't have the frame of reference from memory on just how different things are now. how could they possibly understand? patricia in her letter is so dead on right. kids used to be safe playing outside, you didn't have to lock you house or car doors. you didn't hear swearing or see sex on tv. a general feeling of safety and security pervaded my life as a child when i was outside playing with my friends in my small city in south dakota. how safe do you feel now. how safe do you feel your children are? i do believe those days are gone forever, for even that small city (size of fairbanks) in south dakota. and the only thing people are interested in is making sure we don't shove our god down their throats. selfishness is the new god. they don't care just as long as they get to do what they want, all of the time.
but hey, we are told this all is suppose to happen in the end times. everything is moving on right on schedule, just like the bible foretold. amazing how accurate the thing is, isn't it? less than a century to go before Christ returns. i'm so looking forward to it, but i'm not looking forward to the pain and suffering that comes just before that event at the hands of our wonderfully progressive nonbelievers.
Oh please.
I'm not 50 and I'm not going to rely on the memories of 50 year olds while making decisions about who should lead our country.
No one likes change - and that's part of the problem.
Things are certainly going downhill, but you can't blame everything on those darn liberals. There will be a lot of pain and suffering because of overpopulation, over exploitation of the Earth's resources, and from polluting our air, water, and food to the point that humans can't survive. Liberals care enough about those issues to try and institute change. Conservative Christians, however, invoke the will of God to resist change and to continue living their life as they want. Afterall, it is God's will to have as many children as you want, and it is God's will that we exploit the Earth. And when the ensuing pain and suffering comes, that will be God's will as well. So why change?
ah yes.... when i was a kid growing up in my original town my mom would bundle me up to send me off to school on a cold morning. she would worry that i would get too cold, or maybe i didn't have enough for lunch, or that even possibly that i could hit by a car that lost control on the icy streets. but never in her wildest imagination did she think another kid could come to that school and start shooting kids down. the idea of bringing a gun to school never even occurred to us. you can't fear what you don't even think of. you young mothers, can you say the same now?
the only drive by shootings we ever heard of were in the movies.... gangster movies with eliot ness. HIV didn't exist. these are just a small fraction of the pertinent examples of how things have changed. what has changed? gun laws less restrictive than they were then? what?
god was a big part of our society back then. now god has been replaced by humanistic liberal approaches to problems in life. how well has that worked? just tell me how things are so much better now that god has no place in schools or why a judge can't have the ten commandments in his courtroom.
you are young. i remember how dense i was when i was young.....
the fact is, humanity can't run the planet without god's guidance. we aren't any where near intelligent or wise enough to do so. god however has acquiesced to satan's demand and is letting us try. he has taken a hands off approach while the experiment goes its natural course. that natural course is total and utter destruction unless he intervenes in the end.
I find it amusing that because you were dense when you were young, everyone who is young is therefore "dense" as well.
Find someone else to proselytize to. I'm not interested. YOUR generation got us where we are today. Not mine. We're YOUNG, remember?
Four or five generations ago someone's mother probably couldn't have imagined not owning a few dozen slaves. Ah, nostalgia!
I feel that the problems that are plaguing mankind is the lack of morals that have not been taught for so many years. I challenge all parents, grand parents, aunts and uncles to teach your children the ten commandments. And when you do, make sure you taech them there are no if, and or buts to these moral rules of life and if more peaople were to abide by them, humanity will survive.
Humanity will not survive, with or without the ten commandments, when people believe they have dominion over the Earth, and do whatever they want to it in the name of God.
A certain segment of the Christian population wants it both ways. They want to be seen as a persecuted minority, but at the same time they want to assert that America is a "predominantly Christian nation" (which it is). You can't be both.
The older generation always wants to blame the next for the ills of the world, when in fact, if the world isn't quite what you wish it could be you also have YOURSELVES to blame since you helped us all get to this point. Are young people blameless? No. Are old people? NO.
Teach your kids morals - great. Use the 10 Commandments or don't. I'm an agnostic (raised Catholic) and somehow I've managed not to kill anyone or commit adultery or steal anything lately.
PS - that was SARCASM. I haven't killed anyone, committed adultery, or stolen anything in the past, either.
Why are so many here arguing about God. If you read the author's comments and do some research for yourself, you will see that we are entering a modern age of feudalism. We are ruled over by criminals who wormed their way into what was suppose to be a servant government. They did it by keeping you fat dumb and happy with loans for new cars and fancy houses, making you their mortgage slaves.
It is amazing to me how easy it is for tyrants to convince the population that it is in their best interest to give up Liberty so all will be better off. This Fall you will probably have a chance to choose between two new tyrants to rule over you, assuming powers not delegated to them in our Constitution. Both of them funded by the private foreign banks that make up your Federal Reserve and both of them working on behalf of globalist scum bags who openly state that they want to kill off 80 to 90 percent of us and rule over the rest.
For all questions regarding how we Americans should conduct ourselves, we must first ask, WWJD? (What Would Jefferson Do?) That would put an immediate end to all efforts at injecting God into our political life. Unfortunately, Americans have been brainwashed into believing that this country was founded on "Judeo-Christian" ideals. It wasn't. It was founded on Enlightenment ideals.
Jefferson and Madison, the chief architects of our system, have been on permanent spin in their graves mode for years now, at least since Andrew Jackson got elected. Between the right wing Christians, the left wing activists, and the big-government builders who dominate both parties, neither Founding Father shows any imminent sign of resting in peace.
Arrogant youth tends to think that it knows it all and it moves into an arrogant maturity, with little actual interesting in growing. That's the beauty of being young though, I suppose.
Change for the sake of change is not smart or admirable.
Thanks for the heavy condescension. No one is advocating change for change's sake. I'm advocating real change that reflects the new world in which we live, rather than trying to scramble backwards 30 years on collective, and aging, haunches. That's not just "little actual interest" in growth - it's purposeful prevention of growth.
Arrogant advanced age (I hesistate to use the word "maturity" for those views and their holders here) wants to keep the status quo because they are afraid of change and progress. Hardly "smart" or "admirable".
Yes, ma'am. I was mirroring your condescension. Perhaps not the most mature choice, I will admit. I hardly fall into an "advanced age" category, so perhaps my point was more right on than I thought, hmmm?
No one is advocating "status quo", although it's a convenient charge to place on a group that has your hostility. Most of us are advocating intelligent change with a purpose while perhaps disagreeing on what constitutes "progress". Some of us who can be classified as "young" are still interested in growth that is not detrimental to the future.
You think I'm hostile toward the older generation? lol
As long as this "conversation" is headed toward age-ism, let's do state our own ages and define where we feel the cut-off between "old" and "young" are. I'm 31. Hardly young, at least according to several of my joints and my sciatic nerve.
If advocating the "status quo" is a convenient charge to levy against the "aged" then so is labeling youth as "arrogant" with your broadest of brush strokes.
You see change for change's sake? You see the proposed "growth" as detrimental? And I disagree. If that makes me "arrogant", I'll take it.
No. I think you are hostile toward conservatives.
I am guessing you are judging my "hostility" by this statement (since it's the one that mentions, you know, age), which clearly indicates no one is blameless - you're reading my comments pretty selectively if that's the case:
"The older generation always wants to blame the next for the ills of the world, when in fact, if the world isn't quite what you wish it could be you also have YOURSELVES to blame since you helped us all get to this point. Are young people blameless? No. Are old people? NO."
That's hardly a scathing condemnation of the aging.
Ah yes, I too am 31.
Ah - I am hostile toward pushy religious wingnuts.
Conservative is not equal to pushy religious wingnuts. Nor is liberal synonymous with positive change and progress.
I didn't say it was. I know and like plenty of conservatives. I am hostile toward pushy religious wingnuts who say things like: "less than a century to go before Christ returns. i'm so looking forward to it, but i'm not looking forward to the pain and suffering that comes just before that event at the hands of our wonderfully progressive nonbelievers."
I don't think I said much of anything about "conservatives" in these comments - you're reading too much into my remarks.
So which part of that statement stuck in your craw? I personally don't know when Christ will be returning and His return has little to do with the uncomfortable future that I see being lead by "progressives", regardless of their belief or lack-thereof. I wasn't viewing the discussion in religious terms.
Nothing is stuck anywhere, I assure you. I'm not entirely sure where the "craw" is, to be honest.
Since the discussion originated with a letter that most certainly invoked "religious terms" it was difficult to not approach it - and the subsequent discussion - as such.
I remember the way things used to be, at least for my generation. I think every generation brings change and the elders recall life the way it used to be, recalling the most favorable memories. As in the 60s were great for me save for Vietnam, Kent State, Kennedy (Boobby & JFK), tho otherwise I recall life as being better back then.
There's always been controversy over Gods. Look at the Crusades. Since when does there have to ONE God? Back in Greece they had Gods and Godesses: Athena, Haides, Atlas, Hurculees. I know, I know then the REAL God came along because well, I don't want to elaborate farther. Religion is a choice. I don't mind what God you find faith in, but putting faith first does help. Church helps me and my kids. The bible has some good advise and I find Jesus always turned the other cheek. I believe in prayer. Hey, ya got to believe in something.
I like the Ten Commanments, they're good guidelines for getting along with others,...course there's always someone, who is sees it differently. It never hurts to see how our predecessors managed to achieve order, direction, and co habitate with the world.
Afterall the goal aside from freedom, happiness basically is survival,...if we can survive together without killing each other, it could all work out.
Life finds a way.
Well said. Catholicism helped me greatly as a child and I still enjoy the tradition and beauty of a Mass. I just found that for me, those things stopped being meaningful in adulthood. That's neither here nor there, though, I was simply agreeing that children do need to be instructed more carefully in a moral code, whether that code be taught via the 10 commandments or not. Faith is important, I don't think it has to be in "God" (I have faith in myself, my family, my friends and that's enough for me - but again, whatever floats your faithful boat...) but it's important.
We all romanticize the past, no matter how old or young we are. The reason why is pretty simple - the older you get, the more complicated life gets. We all long for the simplicity of "before" and I think everyone can relate to that.
Well, if you are interested in discovering the meaning of the term, I'm quite sure you are capable of looking it up. Dictionary.com is a wonderful resource.
Beyond that, yes Christina, the letter and some comments offered discussion referring to God and the coming of Christ, as well as specific views of the past. If you will take the time to read over your comments and the discussion, you will note that you were discussing the past. Your first post involved how no 50 year old will tell you who should lead our country - indeed you said "No one likes change - and that's part of the problem." Second post was how "YOUR generation got us where we are today. Not mine. We're YOUNG, remember?". It was your third post that suggested that religion might be a topic of interest for you, but considering the previous two with the addition of how every generation blames the one after it in this third one.... Silly me, I saw parallel discussions going (as happens on occasion online) and jumped on the one that actually seemed to matter: how there is great knowledge in paying attention to the past instead of pretending that they are all a bunch of ignorant throwbacks who fear change and have nothing to offer because they miss certain traditions of the past, which occasionally happens to get mixed up in religion.
Yes, you are right. I missed the point completely.
First I'm guilty of ageism, then I'm bigoted against conservatives, now it's Christians...pick one and get back to me Dana.
Oh, and I prefer Merriam-Webster. Thanks.
"pretending that they are all a bunch of ignorant throwbacks who fear change and have nothing to offer because they miss certain traditions of the past"
Again, you're reading a lot into my statements while simultaneously ignoring others, like:
"The older generation always wants to blame the next for the ills of the world, when in fact, if the world isn't quite what you wish it could be you also have YOURSELVES to blame since you helped us all get to this point. Are young people blameless? No. Are old people? NO."
I don't remember calling you an agist, nor did I say you were anti-religious. I did mention hostility toward conservatism, which is a far cry from calling you a bigot. Looks like again, I am not the only one who can read too much into remarks.
My entire point, Christina, is that there is quality information available from those who have been on the planet longer and lived through some things that we only read about and that you, just like me, don't know it all. Perhaps when you figure that out, you can get back to me.
Yes, there is quality information. If you will allow me to suggest that you also read my comments more carefully I said I would not rely on the MEMORIES of a fifty year old woman as criteria for deciding for whom I will vote. That's a far cry from "ignoring" history, experience, or "maturity". It's ignoring romanticized notions of the past. There are plenty of things about life "back then" that are best left "back then" and that should be remembered only as a point of departure.
Nostalgia is great, but underneath nostalgia is always reality.
I never said, or even implied I knew it all. You project a LOT.
That should have been "quality information available from our parents and grandparents."
"I'm not 50 and I'm not going to rely on the memories of 50 year olds while making decisions about who should lead our country. No one likes change - and that's part of the problem."
I should have inferred that you MEANT the memories of a 50 year old woman? Yes, you are right. I should read more closely.
Damn you two - why not just find a cage and have it out? How bout you split the proceeds 50/50 to help pay for the fuel oil this winter?
"Nostalgia" and "experienced wisdom" are two different things. If the author of the letter had bothered to point out even ONE thing that was better now than "in the old days" her letter would hold a lot more water with me. As-is, she's just got rose-colored hindsight. I'd be willing to bet there are a few other people over 50 who could acknowledge a lot of things are "better now" than they were then. That, my darling Dana, is why I don't see any reason to esteem someone who thinks the past holds only glory and the present and future only doom.
I'm with Patricia. I remember growing up in a safe little southern town where everyone knew each other. There was hardly any crime, and the police did a great job handling what little there was. I remember how, even when we were little, we could go fishing by ourselves and nobody would worry about us because the whole town went to the same church and we all looked out for each other.
We had this nice sheriff named Andy. You could really count on him. The deputy was a bit of a goofball, but he never caused any lasting damage. We did have one drunk in town, but he was so funny, and of course we all did what we could to help him out.
Ah, yes. Those were the days.
You're right, IUR, Mayberry was short on color. Not even a black and white show. It was just white. I'd rather live in Springfield, USA than Mayberry. Closer to real life...D'oh!
To the Writter: Ah it must be nice to ride your high horse at 50. Maybe you should have left Woodstock after the first day. You see 50 would have made you a teenager/20s durring the 60s when all we heard was Change, fight the man, burn your bra's, F the system, F the government. Then after all of your draft dodging and free love you woke up and had kids based on those values and here we are!! I'm sure durring the 60s/70s there were 50 year olds trying to impose their wisdom on you to no avail. They told you this would happen. Someday when "Change" comes and there will be IEDs going off in our neighborhoods, and we will look back at the good ole days when we only had two wars to fight on foriegn soil. We will remember a time when people could afford to drive cars and Polar Bears didn't roam our streets. We will look and see that the tempature outside is the same as it is now and shake our heads at the future misguided youth.
you were right about one thing christina. it WAS our generation that set all this in motion by removing god from society. we saw the racism and the inequalities of society, a war far more horrible than the iraq war and thought that if we removed the god of our parents and replaced it with human love the world would be better, and all would be equal. peace and free love was to be the way. unfortunately, we had a far to optimistic view of human nature. we really boo-booed. after seeing the horror of what we have wrought many of us are returning to the values of our parents, sans the racism and rigid social stratifications....... hopefully.
Hmmm. Lot of arguing over religion. I'm sorry to see that, I'm just as sorry for Christians who fight amongst themselves. It is sad. I would say that it appears there is hypocrisy amongst Christians. That certainly is what turned me away from the faith. I was raised Baptist, but because as a youth I saw so much hypocrisy, I turned away from God. It is only in the last years as I have but begun to mature do I see the value in my faith in God.
But, please understand that as Christians we are hypocrites we sin, because we are intrinsically sinful. Yes, you heard me right, we are hypocrites. We are not perfect followers of Jesus Christ (although we should attempt to be). But because of Jesus' death on the cross, we can have not only eternal life with Him, but begin to experience the life that He desires us to have now, and follow the principles in the Word of God (Bible) as we trust Him to transform our lives.
These are the principles that those who began our country believed in. Our current secular doctrine aims to replace Christian doctrine with a humanistic doctrine. For instance, in another comment section, I placed a similar remark to that which I wrote above. One person replied that Benjamin Franklin's religion was science. You see, that is how we have allowed ourselves to be taught and allowed our children to be taught. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive. Science is subservient to Faith.
Open almost any 'secular' science book, and you will read how many millions of years old the earth is. It is stated and has been accepted as fact. Yet it is impossible to prove as a law. In fact a true LAW of science, the second law of thermodynamics states that things tend to run down. We teach in a public setting that the opposite happens. That there was a big bang, and over millions of years we evolved into what we are today. Why? Because some want to believe that man is not accountable to a creator. This would make the case for absolutes which progressives do not BELIEVE exist.
b/t/w for more info hear, Google: Institution for creation research or Alpha Omega institute.
Now... enter the public arena of politics, as is stated in this column. There are those who would like us to continue to BELIEVE their humanistic doctrines (which have been shoved down our throats in the public education system) and apply them to politics. But you see the doctrine of humanism, is itself a religion. A religion where I or society am god, and I or society choose what is right or wrong. In order for me to be free from a creator I have to develop a scientific system (evolution) that allows for this Humanism fits all the characteristics of a religion., but is hidden under the guise of "science".
We are accountable as a nation to our creator - the God of the Bible, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit who lives inside those who trust Him as savior.
There are moral absolutes, you can find them in the Bible. The same Bible that George Washington and our other founding fathers believed in. The same Bible that the WWI&II generation believed in and fought for (yes I realize not everybody - it would be wrong to stereotype... but generally this was true of our nation).
We are one nation under GOD... whether we like it or not regardless of age or sex.
I'm not even going to try to be clever. Just shut the hell up with your "one nation under God" garbage. All of you. I don't believe in God. I never have. This is no more your country than it is mine. My wife is a Buddhist. This is no more your country than it is hers.
As for your WWII nonsense, I have several hundred letters written by my grandfather to my grandmother during his time in Europe. His regiment spearheaded the Normandy breakout, was first through Paris, was decimated in the Hurtgen Forest, and discovered some of the camps around Dachau. In all of his letters--thousands of pages--he does not mention God or the bible, not even once. He was fighting against the Germans, not for your God.
You don't get to appropriate his history any more than you get to appropriate OUR country for YOUR God. That kind of thing is neither Christian nor American. Just cut it the hell out.
No pun Bedasse but, Amen.
Polarmark: I think I'm right about a few more things, but thanks!
OK take a breath and REEEEELAX christina...we all know you're "young"..even though thats fairly obvious...
They had cooler looking cars back then.
Then it was the commies, now its...US
I cant speak to anyone above's way of life right now, but all things considered, I think we have it pretty good. Go visit some places where the people have nothing. Then get back to me. Also keep in mind that there are some that would have us without, and I am afraid they are winning.
lol Mike,..
I gotta say tho, it's hard to call the kettle black, when you use the very word which defines God. Amen, when studied and compared diligently, ultimately means something is true or it is affirming it's faithful.
That He alone is the Amen, the God of truth. Indeed, the Lord is the very essence of truth. So by comparing scripture with scripture and allowing it to be it's own dictionary and interpreter, we can come to sound conclusions about what words really mean.
" whatever the Lord declares surely will come to pass." When we come to the knowledge of the Lord, we come to the knowledge of truth (1st Timothy 2:4). By searching these things out carefully in scripture, we can rightfully divide scripture. And by seeing how God inspired words to be used, we can come to the true meanings of these words.
God has different meaning and understanding with different people. Some take the God thing figuratively and others take God litterally.
Sometimes we just have to have hope and not take offense at other people's impressions.
KF - you take a breath. I was jokin' around.
LOL
Oldies can be so uptight!
:-)
As for being able to "tell" I'm young - I freakin' hope so. Once I start rambling about how the new generation is messing everything up and "we" really had it good for awhile, shoot me.
polarmark - I've disagreed with you in many of these forums, but in this one, you are right on. And I come to that conclusion from more than my belief in God and much, much more than the "nostalgia" of one 50 year old letter-writer.
...history repeats itself, so I wonder why we don't listen to those who have been blessed to live a bit longer than we have. Think of your 12-18 year old children who ‘know’ it all, and they don’t believe that you have learned something from the few years you have lived.
Some youngsters just don’t get it, and thank God that some do!!!!!:)
God bless America!
not the left or the right, but the whole bird!
I am free to teach my children my beliefs.
They might rebel by doing things they should not. I did.
Your children might rebel by becoming Christians?
Seen that happen!
Forgot to add that not older people are ‘elders’ (or those we should listen to). It may be those who a society chooses to acknowledge as such, be it for life style and/or religion if the society chooses.
i like the way things are now. the only real issue right now is fuel prices and some ragheads fussing a bit. try this on, nuclear holocaust, cold war, "duck and cover", getting drafted, American cities burning due to racial riots, The Weathermen, The SDS, the Symbionese Liberation people, American universities and faculty overtaken and held hostage, people starving around the world, Watergate, genocide in Cambodia, biafra, Chad, Colombia, you people need to pick a book up sometime and read it.
cant belive what has been posted , such spoiled, immateur children.
Good point,
things are going fairly well compared to the last century.
Our fathers and grandfathers were rightoues in thier battles to confront true evil in the world. They esteemed life and freedom at a much higher value then we seem to.
Now the freedom they earned for us has been reduced to various acts of self indulgence.
Let's face it the problems on earth is because of man. Such as men-opause, men-stration, his-torectomy, and just like his-tory it repeats itself.
"Good point,
things are going fairly well compared to the last century."
Things weren't looking so bad in 1908. Give it some time.
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