Kudos News-Miner
Published Wednesday, July 16, 2008
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Stumble It!July 14, 2008
To the editor:
I want to first of all congratulate the News-Miner for having the courage to make the decision to run the series regarding the John Hartman issue. I also know that Brian O’Donoghue with his teaching and organizing skills is responsible for this work. Having evaluated the work, it became self-evident the work of his students, and I am proud to witness that work because as great as Brian is in my mind, I know you young people did the grunt work and used well-researched information to make this series possible.
It is sad, but racism is alive and well in Alaska today, although it is different from years ago when there were “No Natives or Dogs Allowed” signs on businesses in Fairbanks. Now it is behind the back and through other refined means which do the same thing.
I fully respect the judicial branch of our government, have the confidence that justice will prevail and want to see the proper people brought before the court and the innocent freed.
Community Discussion
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What justice wasn't served? The men responsible for the crime were convicted, by three different juries. I don't believe you can advocate that you show full respect to the judicial branch of government by remaining unconvinced and indignant regarding the outcome.
It is hard to believe that justice will ever be done but I hope you are right. You have more confidence in the system then I do.
Chief Demientieff, with all due respect to you, your position and experience, I would like you to help remove the more than a few Native men & women who are highly intoxicated from 8 a.m. to all hours (at least during the summer)as they walk thru the Fbx parking lots with cases of beer and liquor, or are just stumbling and jay walking all over the downtown area perpetuating the stereotyping of AK Natives always drinking. It is getting old and sad and alcohol was obviously behind the killing of John Hartman. Racism is a two way street; there are just as many AK Natives who are rude toward Whites, Blacks, Asians, etc. I was not even alive when those awful signs were posted here and in all the towns in the Lower 48 and I resent being reminded everytime I turn around. People need to take more responsibility for themselves and their CHILDREN today and not dwell on the past. Some people have actually learned from our past mistakes - let's not go backward. If the PARENTS would have been more engaged in those boys lives then, John would be alive and the others would not be in jail. Maybe they would actually be friends on some level. As you & your Village celebrate the new bridge naming in Nenana, I hope that all people of ALL colors can celebrate Shirley's life and love for all people in peace.
Its clearly not about justice being served...
If we could find some 'innocent' white boys to convict, I'm sure all this outcry would go away.
I would bet a dollar to a donut if the case was the same and the boys were white, black or asian the DNM would not have run the story
Isn't being found guilty three times enough? Chief - if these boys didn't do this, find out who did....otherwise - keep your bigotry at home and out of the paper
put the shovel down and quit digging up the past...“No Natives or Dogs Allowed”...please - - a hell of a lot worse was done to my ancestors and it has only made me stronger
I disagree totally, this was a pretty awful article. It came across as a giant spoon stirring the pot. Of course, if you run a series titled "men properly sentenced to murder serve their sentences" you won't sell as many papers. I read the entire series last week, and I can't think of any single part of the story that supported the reason why they are in prison. Every effort of that story was intended to prove their innocence or lead people to believe that they were framed.
Rather than put so much time into a useless activity, it would be nice to see the news-minus do some real investigative reporting and "look for the real killers"...is it just me or does that sound too much like OJ?
I agree with anchreader about the news miner. It isn't much but all we have unfortunately.
I absolutely agree with mandy04 about the drunks. We pay for these people time and time again. Now the van club wants more money. Why don't they police their own.
Chief Mitch Demientieff I have been here close to 40 years and never saw one of these “No Natives or Dogs Allowed” signs. Maybe you need to join the 21st century or turn in all your goodies and get your spear sharp. It sure sounds to me that you have your share of prejudice.
Innocent people are convicted by juries and judges more often than we might like to think. It's one of the reasons several people have gotten off of death row, after being convicted and going through appeals. There are lots of books written on the subject. Court rules, internal and external politics, personalities, social class, individual perceptions, etc., all have a bearing on the case. There is room for doubt and I appreciate the News Miner running this story and bringing out the points it does.
I agree.
The News-Miner has done a good thing by putting as much as possible all together in one place.
My thanks go out to Mr. O’Donoghue, the students and the News-Miner.
Chief, I have been here over 70 years, ran around with many native pals, and never saw a sign like that. Where was it?
Accountability?
Mandy04-
Your comment is way off in left field. We may not have the signs, but there still are the prejudices we Alaska Natives face everyday.
As I've stated before, now is the time that Alaska Natives can feel comfortable about our heritages, our past. "there are just as many AK Natives who are rude toward Whites, Blacks, Asians, etc" If there are those out there, to include you, that misconstrue our confidence, then that is your issue.
Akguy-
In my culture, I would get a whoopin' for calling a Chief's words bigotry. Also, what was done to your ancestors has not made you stronger, your words point out that it, or something else, has made you bitter. Put the keyboard down and stop taking it out on others.
Nice letter.
Good points.
Subtle Racism is alive-
If you are not Native, you don't understand and can't understand because you blend in and can't see what we see.
And please, mind your own business as how SOME people wish to live their lives whether it is drinking (or typing on these columns). Most of those drunks mind their own business. Some of you are so quick to judge than understand.
The Hartman case has too many holes in it-Those boys were convicted by an all white RACIST court system. It is obvious to Natives and those who are not close-minded.
With out a doubt racism is a terrible thing but as long as people pull the race card to justify their shortcomings or special interests - racism will live.
Oldminer:
You can learn about the history of "No Natives Allowed" signs
at this website:
http://media.www.thenorthernlight.org/me...
authenticalaskan,
I concede the point that racism, no matter how subtle, is alive and well in our American society, however, we, as Native American peoples don't have an extra sensory perception that identifies racism over any other people.
"If you are not native, you don't understand and can't understand..."
I disagree entirely, being of mixed race, I have seen my fair share of racism from every race. I have observed this as well as been victim to it, by caucasion, native and all other colors of people.
You are way out of line, calling our court system racist. The "racism" factor that minorities cry out is a crutch and does no service to our pride and culture.
Personally, I am proud of who I am as a Native American, and use that source of pride to fuel my success in the so-called "white", "racist" society we call America. I will never use racism as an excuse.
That's just me.
anchreader
You finally got the point. The series tells the true story it isn't missing anything. That's the whole point of printing it. These young men shouldn't be in jail they didn't do the crime. Good job of actually reading it like obviously so many others have not.
Chief Demientieff,
I found your remarks on racism to be at best disingenuous.
Almost $1 billion dollars paid to thirteen original corporations, which now number around 22 regional and village corporations.
40 million acres of prime real estate.
No bid Federal contracts that bring in $100's of millions worth of business with little or no congressional oversight.
A legal system that has faults, but has yet to bested by any other framework.
All of it at the expense of tax payers. And you have the gall to call me a racist.
Sooooo, 3 different juries said guilty about the same 4 people, right? 36 people came to the same conclusion when presented with the same information. What I'm hearing is that until they find 12 people that say what you want to hear, racism is alive and well.
I'm not saying guilty or innocent. What I will say is if you weren't there when it happened, you are NOT qualified to argue the verdict. I don't care how long you knew who or what you feel. Show some proof, bring out some new evidence, or sit down and shut up.
Why can't more people be like Non_Lemming. That is the right attitude. If you are proud of your race then go forward with your head held high and don't let anyone or anything stop you from striving to be the best person you can be. Pointing fingers and hoping someone is going to feel sorry for you, because of the way your ancestors (and maybe you) may have been treated is not the way to go.
A lot has changed since the signs were posted in 1945. I understand why natives have the feelings they do about others not like them, but get over it and move on. Your lives would be so much better if you would just take responsiblity for you and not worry so much about the rest.
I grew up in a different part of the country were racism is extremely prevalant. I never understood it. People were aggresive towards me for what? Because I am white? Why because someone's ancestors had slaves? It wasn't mine--my ancestors did not have money. My best friend was a little black boy when I was in kindergarden and I was told that we couldn't be friends any longer. I never understood. After a while of being in that surrounding you start to be a certain way wether you like or not. It is sad that the parents are the ones who are making the younger generations this way. My children will be raised to love everyone, no matter what color they are.
I believe that the only reason we should go back and look at a case like this is to see what we can learn from it. What can we do now so this doesn't happen again? Parents, be good examples for your children. We as a society should not tolerate children drinking, doing drugs and being let to run the streets. If the parents, family and friends of these children were doing there job, this never would have happened.
If the support community that is rallying behind the men in jail now, was there before this tragedy, this never would have happened.
Get off your high horse, stop blaming the justice system for what happened here. It all could have been prevented. Where were you then? It seems to me that you turned a blind eye to the situation beforehand but now there is an “incredible injustice of a racist court system”. Maybe it is the guilt of letting this happen that is clouding your judgment.
It's so easy for you all to pass judgement from behind your computer screens. Do some of you have lives? I see the same names over and over as if you live to post your next comments.
These guys need a fair trial. People will not realize the racism all around us here in the State of Alaska if they don't want to see it. It's not them that have to deal with the FPD, employers, store clerks, etc. Of course the racism card will be played, because that is what happened. These four guys were pinned from the moment they were arrested or questioned.
Until you all wake up and realize what is happening around you please try to open your mind and perceptions to see what is happening. My father is a white guy and he hears racist remarks all the time from people at businesses or on a personal basis because they do not know at the time that he is married to a Native woman. I have experienced racism starting at a young age. From other kids and teachers in the elementary, middle, and high schools to store clerks following you around the store. Now, I am a strong enough woman to stand up for myself and I say something to them when this happens to me or others in my presence. Some of my non Native friends even said that they are told by their employers to look out for the Natives stealing!
I am college educated, rooted in a strong Christian and Native traditions upbringing and strong family values. I paid for most of my education myself and competed in competitive grants for some of the other finances. This is so that you all know that ALL Native people are not drunks and all looking for a free hand out! I have never received hand outs! My parents worked all their lives and they passed those same values on to me and I have been working since I was 13 years old! I belong strongly in my Native Traditions, my ancestors, and will not let any of you get me down!
I am not related to the men in jail, I have seen some of them around when I was a teenager but I didn't know them on a personal level.
They were NOT given a fair trial. All the Native community is asking is for a fair trial.
Reading all the materials available I see a lot of reasonable doubt and can't believe how prejudice our Alaska judicial system is. There is no hard evidence linking them to the crime. All the evidence is circumstantial. Other leads were not followed up.
I keep hearing comments on how these boys belong where they are because they were down a wrong path anyways. Well, there are many young people Native and non Native that try different things and do they all belong in jail? Let's throw that kid Chris Stone in jail for life to! Because they also admitted to drinking and doing drugs that night and was down the wrong path! That kid does know more than he's leading on. Wake up people!
Let's quit throwing judgement so fast and maybe take an educational look with an open mind.
I really believe in what goes around comes around. People who have bad hearts will get theirs down the road somewhere.
And, please don't say there's no more racism here in Alaska! We see it everyday. We hear it on the radio all the time, see it in our lives everyday! You hear kids yelling racist remarks at each other on the playground for crying out loud!!
I hope that some of you have a wake up call sooner than later.
This is some of the most rediculous "journalism" i've encountered from the news miner and that's saying something! The news miner has done nothing but perpetuated the idea that "whitey" is out to get every native in town. I hope the editors sleep better at night knowing that they've perpetuated the stereotpype and inspired fear and hatred in this town at a time when everyone else was ready to MOVE ON!
The facts seem pretty clear to me, 4 men were put in jail after three different juries convicted them for confessing to a crime involving the death of a 15 year old boy! It's way too easy to just blame everything on the "white man" and proclaim innocense! Racism is only alive today because you say it is!
Thank you Cheif Demienteff for being an example for us to stare controversy in the face and not faltering. I have faith in your evaluations of good and sound people to trust.
Arrogance and Ignorance is bliss, unfortunately for all sides. It is good to understand the meanings of those and be objective.
After reading about the of the evidence from the paper, it's easy to see why there has been such a "decade of doubt" over the four boys thrown in jail. The racial tension because of jury selection is because many times, natives are not given a jury of their peers based upon a set mile radius of WHERE the juror members are selected. Each time natives are sent to trial, it is often hundreds of miles away from their hometown, therefore, it is seen as racist because most of the time the juries are all non-native. Too bad the local judicial system can't fix this problem, as Alaska is the biggest state in the US, why not tweak some of these rules? Have the jury trials closer to the village, in the village itself, or have jury members come down to Fairbanks/Anchorage. Maybe then the trial wouldn't be seen as racist and the boys in this case could have had a fair ruling.
That being said, it's hard to determine what the actual evidence and cold hard facts of the case are JUST FROM an article printed in the paper. None of us are trained investigators (including the writers and editors) so it's very difficult to know what has been left out of the articles. This includes other possible forensic evidence, interviews, and witnesses, which would make it easier to figure out the true suspects.
What would be a fair trail? If it was an all Native police force and a all Native jury? Basically all you are asking is that the court system be a little more forgiving because they are native. That would be criminal!
I agree with BoomBam, it seems ridiculous that the DNM would print this material. All it does is feed the fire.
I want to know what was the racist factors were in the trail and police interrogations? Aside from the fact that they were convicted. Someone give me a specific fact.
I want to know what the racist factors were in the trial and police interrogations? Sorry for the mispellings.
So some say white people dont know what racism feels like bs. Being the blue eyed white devil that i am in some eye's you think i have never felt racism i remeber years ago one of my closest friends ask's if i want to go to club detour so i say why not i will give it a try mind you i am a club alaska guy. My buddy say's to me as long as your with me oh he's black you will be allright yeah this is how me and my friends joke get over it. We had a laugh and went in talk about all eyes being on me and the nasty looks i was the only white guy in joint a few white girls but no men did i care hell no could i get service at the bar hell no my buddy did though so i figured who cares. We stayed for a couple hours shot pool and left the two bouncers gave me the old smile of you got some big ones for coming in here. Two years ago went to the arctic bar with a different friend for some pool about twenty natives looked at me like they wanted to throw me back out the door but my friend although he's a mexican alot of people think he is native he got a few hey how's it going not me i didnt care of course he had to order they waitress would not talk to me but the hell with her. Yeah i am a racist though my three best friends are a black guy a mexican and a native. Call me racist all you want cause i dont care i have better things to do than accuse people of being a racicst. I dont know if these guys are guilty but they were tried three times and still found guilty some how i dont think it is because whitey dont like natives. Anyone want to meet at the arctic bar and shoot some pool?
lagirl,
thanks for the support. I try, as I learned from my parents, to strive for success in life, yet never forgetting who my ancestors were and where they came from. I honor them as I honor our country to be as successful as I can be, the sky is truly the limit.
Seems to me no matter what proof we give you all or what comments we leave for you to read you will never get off your high horse and admit that this case was not fairly tried.
Theres always stories of people going to court for the same charges and the Native usually gets the longer sentencing.
The four boys were chosen because someone heard "Native accents".
The guy that worked at Alaska Motor Inn couldn't tell the difference between two different Native guys.
The Lawyer said that all Natives stick together.
How the investigators linked the robbery, the incident at the AK Motor Inn, and the murder together still beats me!
The only person that supposedly saw these four boys together was the guy who saw them 550 ft away robbing another guy on a cold October night. Oh and also the witnesses recollection of the robbery was different than the person who was actually robbed!!!
These four boys was convicted guilty as soon as arrested/questioned.
The other group of boys were never pursued because why?? I'm still clueless.
Maybe if they did purse that other group of boys then maybe the FPD could have saved the cab drivers life that they murdered the next month by cutting his throat!!!
We are not asking for an easier way out or anything like that. We are just asking for the same treatment, our right to a fair trial.
Your Beating a Dead-Horse on this one !
The men had their Same Day in Court,( Many-Times) just like Non-Native people. And the Juries have said “They did the Murder.
Strategies dealing with dead horses ( And OLD News without New Information) , including the following:
1. Buying a stronger whip.
2. Changing riders.
3. Say things like, "This is the way we have always ridden this horse."
4. Appointing a committee to study the horse.
5. Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses.
6. Increasing the standards to ride dead horses.
7. Appointing a tiger team to revive the dead horse.
8. Creating a training session to increase our riding ability.
9. Comparing the state of dead horses in todays environment.
10. Change the requirements declaring that "This horse is not dead."
11. Hire contractors to ride the dead horse.
12. Harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed.
13. Declaring that "No horse is too dead to beat."
14. Providing additional funding to increase the horse's performance.
15. Do a Cost Analysis study to see if contractors can ride it cheaper.
16. Purchase a product to make dead horses run faster.
17. Declare the horse is "better, faster and cheaper" dead.
18. Form a quality circle to find uses for dead horses.
19. Revisit the performance requirements for horses.
20. Say this horse was procured with cost as an independent variable.
21. Promote the dead horse to a supervisory position.
Was this last posting supposed to show some sort of intelligence? If so you sadly failed.
Okay what about the fact that they linked on of these kids to a murder because he went to the hospital with a sprang ankle? He told them it was because he kicked someone in the head after he was in a fight. Must have been because he was native. If you know somone you could tell that it was the person from 550ft, especially if you know their car and who was in it. What about admitting to kicking the boy in the head 4 or 5 times, after he had time to sober up? Must have been because he is native.
"There are always stories of people going to court for the same charges and the Native usually gets the longer sentencing." OH BOO HOO...you are just pulling that one out of thin air. How about telling the natives to just not do the crime-- then they wouldn't have to worry about the sentencing!
And you claim to be raising your children to be non-prejudice? Looked in the mirror lately?
"Choose your battles wisely."
This one here with you all is a waste of time. You choose not to listen to people. Wasting my time and so I'm gone until you have something reasonable and at the least intelligent to write.
I have looked in the mirror. I am proud of what I see. I am just trying to get you guys to see what you are writing is ridiculous.
There was nothing racist about my remarks--I would tell a white person to do the same. Quite crying about your misfortunes, if you have the ability to chose a different path.
We all belong to one race, human. The genetic traits that determine various differences in humans is not a race. There are difference in cultures. The old concept of race has had it's time and deserves to be put to rest. As far as stupidity, one only has to read some of the blogs that have been written in the past to see that stupidity is alive and well in Fairbanks.
fbksgirl "Wasting my time and so I'm gone until you have something reasonable and at the least intelligent to write."
Sadly, your argument is weakened by such a stand.
Interestingly enough, the evidence you have cited is all argumentative, which in the trial courts can be supported or rejected outright based on assessment of character. Whom do you believe, my word against his word, and vice-versa. Well, three times the jurors took these statements into consideration within the confines of character presented by either the prosecuting attorney or defense lawyer. Three times the jurors were convinced to make the decision to convict. If unhappy with the verdict, well there is another letter to the editor by the defense attorney who represented one of the men, ... perfect place to express your discontentment.
I am trying to be civil in this posting, however, it appears to me that when some of us here have rebuked your claim of racism and make a solid point (or opinion, to be fair), you make a non-sensical claim that we are wasting your time and will not listen. Not true at all, I have read your arguments time and time again and not once do you provide validated proof of prejudice or racism in the court systems.
It is disheartening to realize that there are people out there who are used to getting what they want, throw the racist card out when it pleases them or is convenient in the absence of substance, then cannot or will not back their claims.
Mitch, I am a hell of a lot older than you and am a native Alaskan, not a Native Alaskan. I never ever saw a "No Natives" sign anywhere. What the heck have you been smoking?
Hey Tony08, I'll meet you at the Arctic
Geez, even the old resort to ridicule!
Look at the 9:28 am posting by native pride, AkRascal!
Was there evidence presented that put this case beyond a reaonable doubt? No. Based on that should these kids have been found guilty? No. But, these kids had lawyers that were representing them. Instead of complaining about the legal system, you should be asking yourselves why their lawyers did such a god awful job representing them.
Lacie, perhaps that was the case in Nome, I grew up in Fairbanks and never saw it. Wonder if I posted under White Pride what the response would be.. Racism is Racism regardless of the color of your skin.
Do some of you understand that a 15 year old boy was punched and kicked to death! That one of the motives was HIS RACE! My spouse and I followed the trails very close,were even present for some of them and they more than fair! Noticed I said trials (plural)? How can you be more fair than that?
I think the NM was right in printing this story. That's what good journalism is supposed to do, feed the fire. Not just spurt out information in a plastic manner. There's a reason their speech is protected.
Just once, ONCE, I would like to see a dicussion about this case that doesn't start with an Alaskan Native playing the race card.
In this day and age, all the race card does is discredit everything else you had to say.
That the only new evidence being presented by the native community is "racism", I no longer care about the case. It is a tired story, it is a tired claim of racism and the DNM needs to put it to bed for good.
Pavel
So stop reading, no one is forcing you to participate. This series was not started by the 'native community' and it is not just the native community that believes the accused are innocent.
The News Miner again has shone that the issues & facts mean nothing !!
This exercise by UAF students, hoping for acclaim,a good grade or some other meaningless thing has done nothing of value for Fairbanks.
Meaninglessness is relative.
Your screen name is a perfect example.
All should come together in peace and harmony
Please
Please
Work together to save the elusive but sweet Alaskan
Arctic penguin.
If this story had not been turned into a race issue, it probably would not be so many negative comments, but the minute the race card is pulled, defenses go up. Racism exists everywhere whether we like it or not, but will get you very little respect when you try to use it to your advantage and claim "it's because I'm native isn't it". The biggest racists I have met in this town have been native, and racism exists on both sides. I have the upmost respect for many of my native friends and relatives, but I have experienced first hand just how nasty racism can be on the opposite end. It would be nice if we could look at this story as some young men that may have been done some injustice, but instead it is tainted with the racial card. It becomes hard to look past that once the damage is done.
I see Inupiaqdiva or authentic?alaskan, never returned to post anymore of his/her drival...since when does Natives being racist equal them being confidant? And how am I misconstruing it. What? The Diva must spend alot of time in front of the mirror building confidence. Drunks are my business when they jaywalk at 8 a.m. while I am driving to WORK and THEY are slapping the hood of my car! Our FPD needs to do more to clean up the streets & the Golden Heart Park of drunks. Interesting about 1% of them are white...how does that look?
And thanks to AlaskaDi...who was actually witness to the trials..I am sure most of these little girls posting were only about 10 yo at the time! Yes, "reverse" racism is alive and well and they only live to continue to play the card to get what they want.
I would like to reiterate as some have also stated...we would not be reliving this 10 year old nightmare that was thankfully solved if it was not for some kids who wanted a good grade...
People need to take more responsibility for themselves and their CHILDREN today and not dwell on the past. Some people have actually learned from our past mistakes - let's not go backward.
If the PARENTS would have been more engaged in those boys lives then, John would be alive and the others would be with their families. Maybe they would actually be friends on some level.
As Chief Demientieff & his Village celebrate the new bridge naming in Nenana, I hope that all people of ALL colors can celebrate Shirley's life and love for all people in peace.
I hope the "children" who posted here who continue to play their race cards attend this event & learn something about real Native Pride.
Right on Mandy04, I agree with you in all of your posts very well written. As for you Chief, you keep living the race card dream!!!!!
all white people move into alaska from 48 low state or other and steal anything from natives people who live in alaska and set "no native" signs up . It is stupid and rude to native people.
Now that last comment was just plain dumb
If racism wasn't alive and well before, it certainly will be after all of this.
This is sickening!
Save the Alaskan Arctic Penguin.
Have a good day.
Mandy04- you lose the argument once you've dimished another's opinions as drival. Do you know how you look to me when you are arguing that downtown drunks are racist because of slapping the hood of your car? This forum is an interesting eye opener for me. I may have seen you and akguy in the store and shared a smile with you and never know how you two 'see' me.
Real Native Pride? I live with Real Native Pride daily. I instill Real Native Pride to my children and those around me by living the example. What do you live with daily?
I believe those young men are behind bars not because their case was proved beyond a reasonable doubt, but because of narrow minded people.
Until the FPD and the District Attorney's office prove beyond a reasonable doubt WITHOUT pulling the race card, I will remain unconvinced.
Alaska Natives belong to this land, if all you see in Alaska Natives are the downtown drunks, then maybe this is not the place for you to live. Move.
InupiagDiva,
Sorry, your words are disgraceful. As an American Indian, I can appreciate the pride you have in your culture and your love of land. Yet, somehow and in someway you've turned your beliefs and opinions into fact when it is not. You cannot prove racism by the cops and court, yet you blaringly cry out on behalf of racial injustice. When those who disagree with you rebuke your claims, you instantly judge and call them narrow-minded.
Sure, Alaska natives belong to this land, but in reverse, the land does not belong to the Alaska natives. If all you see in our American society is white hatred and racial divide, then that is all you will ever see. Lastly, don't ever demand someone else to "move" because they disagree with you. In this regard, you are the one being indignant
I live each day with Native Pride! I know the history of my ancestors, I can trace my roots back for generations, I can speak my language, and I have a lot of subsistence skills passed on to me. I teach others the same things that I have been taught. I treat people the way I want to be treated. I respect people regardless of color, I respect the land, and I respect the creator.
The creator will carry us through all of this.
I don't take hand outs. I work for a living.
We are the first Nations of this land. We did have all this land stolen from us.
For years, people made us feel like being Native was less human. We couldn't walk down the street without being called names, having objects thrown at us, or even getting beat up for being Native. Please don't disrespect people when they are giving you life experiences that hurt.
Now, people are finally feeling proud of their Native heritage. That is why people say Native Pride! It is not to insult others or make us above others. We are just proud of our heritage, proud of our ancestors and what they did for us. We can now say with confidence that we are Native, Alaska's First Nation.
Exhaustion, sadness, disappointed, weary, but still hopeful. I read through these blogs and that is how I feel. Instead of being a healthy conversation about a tragedy on so many levels that so touched this community, it seems all this is accomplishing is more attacks. If some of you could just try to see each others point of view without attacking each other, not necessarily to change each others opinion, but just to listen, I imagine this could move on to some healing. Still hopeful.
What's to see? You have one side claiming racism and the other that says 3 trials, one outcome. Anyone disagreeing with the first side is obviously a racist, so they don't count. I don't see too many of the Native Alaskans here in this forum trying to reach out to understand the point of view that if 36 people reach the same conclusion, there might be some validity to their findings, regardless of personal feelings. They just shout racist again and move on. How do you reason with that?
"For years, people made us feel like being Native was less human. We couldn't walk down the street without being called names, having objects thrown at us, or even getting beat up for being Native."
I can switch out Native for Caucasian and it would perfectly describe my time in Pilot Station, just a few short years ago. And my time in Marshall. It couldn't be further from the truth for my time in St. Mary or Moutain Village.
None of it justifies playing the race card at every chance when something doesn't go your way.
Non_Lemming - ALL of YOUR posts are the best and most accurate. YOU really know how to read people and your reply to InupiaqDiva was excellent.
I hope InupiaqDiva attends Shirley's event in Nenana, I will.
I am pasting Non_Lemmings' comments here because they are very accurate and thought provoking. Thank you again!
InupiagDiva,
Sorry, your words are disgraceful. As an American Indian, I can appreciate the pride you have in your culture and your love of land. Yet, somehow and in someway you've turned your beliefs and opinions into fact when it is not. You cannot prove racism by the cops and court, yet you blaringly cry out on behalf of racial injustice. When those who disagree with you rebuke your claims, you instantly judge and call them narrow-minded.
Sure, Alaska natives belong to this land, but in reverse, the land does not belong to the Alaska natives. If all you see in our American society is white hatred and racial divide, then that is all you will ever see. Lastly, don't ever demand someone else to "move" because they disagree with you. In this regard, you are the one being indignant
I didn't reas the arcticle but I read the arcticle. now was it really about racism??? thats just horrible. So I'm white, does that make me a racist? I'm genuinly curious because its ok to be proud to be native, black, hispanic, or anything else. I'm beginning to to be glad I'm white becuase if I said "white pride" I'm being racist? I apologize for what other white people have done even thought its not my place to apologize for that, or is it?
It is my understanding, however that by yelling out "native pride" or "black power" or whatever else just prepetuates racism by separating you from the whole and making your own based on your race or nationality. and I'm sorry I've been in more sticky spots because I'm white and a group of blacks or hispanics came to me because i was white. In my experience white people stay to themselves while everyone holds to the power of numbers.
Anyway, there will never be a blur in race until we all stop identifying ourselves by our race.
If they are inocent............... Then who is guilty?????????????
First of all the US Government purchased the land from the Tribes of Alaska with a legal document (written by the government) to provide "free" health care to tribal members(although most tribal members buy private health insurance so that they can have a choice of health providers just like anyone with health insurance). The so called "free" ride the tribes get is not free. What is "free" are the roads that the government built in the cities for your pleasure after the US bought the land from the Tribes in Alaska. I could go on about all the so called "free" services, however I would think that you know all about it. I myself think that everyone should have "free" health care, but would you want to pay 60% of your income to taxes to cover the "free" health care? I pay $2800 a year in health insurance and the private company that I work for pay for $2800 and I think that I will continue to buy my insurance.
Patience is a vertue and in time the truth will come out on what happened to JH. Until then each and everyone of us will have a different opinion and I respect that. We are all human beings and we should respect our fellow men/women and treat others as we want others to treat us. After all in the end we will all be mixed together in the dust.
Look into, really research and find out about all the treaties signed between Native people of both Alaska and lower48 and the government, see for YOURSELF who kept the treaties and who broke them, time and time again.
Euro-Americans DO NOT respect words from a tribal elder, I see comments here that do not surprise me in the least, people say "get over events that happened before our time" I say NO, I will not forget as long as people think themselves better and others lower simply because of what THEY see in their narrow minded world. (drunks downtown, native boys stomping some other boy to death) those boys are not the only natives in this town, nor are the drunks.
how many of you writing- "If they are inocent............... Then who is guilty?", "if 36 people reach the same conclusion, there might be some validity to their findings", "The men responsible for the crime were convicted", "If we could find some 'innocent' white boys to convict, I'm sure all this outcry would go away.", as for just a few examples, but how many of you believe O.J. Simpson was guilty???
oh but our INFALLIBLE, 100% correct ALL the time court system deemed him innocent, INNOCENT!!! there have been people executed for a tenth of the evidence presented against oj in that trial.
When I drive downtown I don't see just natives wandering around drunk, Natives are not the only homeless people I see in town, Natives are not the only people getting D.U.I.s DAILY ad nauseam in this town.
Maybe these boys ARE innocent, how many of you were there to see anything happen and can say ANYTHING with authority? not many at all I would presume, so, NONE of us can say anything more than hearsay and what our ironclad, 100%, right-ALL-the-time court proceedings said happened. So the boys admitted to it, big deal, it certainly would NOT be the first time a confession was coerced out of an innocent person/boy.
Nevertheless, I do not KNOW anything about this case, but I would guess that they probably ARE guilty, and so good riddance from society, I don't believe murderers should be allowed to even breath longer than their victims.
Violent and prejudiced people are weeds in our society.
Mathematically as time progresses, we will ALL be of one race eventually, it is simply a matter of time.
Non_Lemming- Thanks for the reality check. I read your comment and waited 2 days before I had nerve without emotion to comment back.
Without the race card, I believe this case had too much reasonable doubt to prove these boys guilty. That's what I believe. I have a hard time accepting arguments of their guilt or innocence. Because of our judicial system, and all it's flaws, we are theoretically innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. When trying to explain this, I believe that if others have already formed an opinion, it is because of them being narrow minded. Of course we all want this to have an 'end', some form of closure. I don't believe that the community will have one until we have a fair, open minded investigation. Which, as this series pointed out, was not given to these 4 boys. I do not know how this will ever be handled to please both the judicial system and the native community after all that has been done.
Also, I do not believe it is my responsibility to prove that racial injustice was performed by the cops and court. I believe that the document links provided by FDN was proof enough.
As for Mandy04, I knew Shirley personally. I know that if Shirley was physically present, she would be arguing that she knew these boys were innocent and that racism reared it's ugly head in their investigations and convictions. I also know that she was a very passionate person. She was human and made mistakes and apologized when it was warranted. So I am going to draw from her stregth right now and apologize for making the statement regarding that this might not be the community for you. In that statement, I was being indignant and I am sorry. As for the bridge dedication, of course I am going to be there. Shirly was a great leader, who is still motivating us left in the community to be the best we can be. Not going would be disrespectful.
Let's see if I have this straight. Four young men are arrested for the beating/kicking death of a 15 year old boy. Two of them confess. One of them apologizes to the victim's brother in jail. One has a broken foot he originally said he got kicking someone. A boot print was visible on the victim's head. If the victim had been Native and the attackers white I'm willing to bet the Native community would think there was sufficient evidence to convict.
Defense attorney Dick Madsen showed real courage by stepping forward to proclaim in the article that his client was wrongly convicted. How many times has that poor man stood beside someone in a courtroom proclaiming their innocence only to see them go to jail? Almost every one of his high profile cases ended in convictions for his clients. That must be a terrible burden to bear. And since he hasn't come forward on behalf of all the others he represented as innocent who are now in stir the Hartman Four must be innocent. Why else would he risk bringing attention to his dismal acquittal record?
Let them go I say. Not being the sharpest tools in the shed they will eventually find that Alaska's new concealed carry laws mean that someone will see their 'boots and bottles' and raise them a Browning or Beretta and we'll be done with this issue.
Wendigo
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