Tok man avoids potential 200-year sentence, gets two years instead
Originally published Tuesday, December 2, 2008 at 12:00 a.m.
Updated Tuesday, December 2, 2008 at 2:05 p.m.
Digg
delicious
Facebook
Mixx
Reddit
Stumble It!FAIRBANKS — A Tok man accused of savagely beating and choking a 19-year-old and threatening to throw him in the Tanana River pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of felony assault Monday.
Rex Defrance, 26, was originally charged with two counts of attempted murder, one count of kidnapping, and multiple lesser charges of assault and furnishing alcohol to minors. If he had been convicted on all counts, he could have been sentenced to more than 200 years in prison.
Instead, under a plea agreement with prosecutors, he will be sentenced to four years in prison with two years suspended, and he will spend five years on probation.
“Our position is that the case was grossly overcharged, and the place where it’s being resolved is where it should have been originally,” said Defrance’s attorney, Susan Carney, at Monday’s hearing.
Authorities say that Defrance was drinking with several other people, mostly underage in August 2007 in Tok when he began beating Dave Howard, then 19. Howard went in and out of consciousness during the course of the beating and lost several teeth.
Authorities say at one point, Defrance forced the group into his car, set out for the Tanana River and continued to beat Howard when he stopped the car until he suffered a knee injury. Defrance left the state soon after the attack and was not located until police in Montana arrested him after a routine traffic stop in February.
As part of the plea agreement, Defrance will have to pay for Howard’s medical bills and for damage done to the vehicle. A formal sentencing hearing is scheduled for April 6.
Contact staff writer Chris Freiberg at 459-7545.
Community Discussion
Newsminer.com doesn't necessarily condone the comments here, nor does it review every post. Read our full user's agreement.
Great - all the more reason to keep the trash out. I say put up a border and keep the garbage at the curb - not in the great State of Alaska.
I'm still confused as to why the prosecutors said they "grossly overcharged". Who's friend of a friend does this human waste belong to, to get such a deal?
What do they mean by "grossly overcharged"? Is a person who commits so many crimes at once only aloud so many charges? So which crimes did he commit that's considered not a crime that's chargeable. Village crimes should be subject to punishment the same as in the city. Susan Carney should be disgusted with herself. In two years who will be the next victim of a savage beating by Defrance? Hopefully it will be Susan Carney so that she can reap the benefits of her work. Why should it matter where the place of resolution is? A crimes a crime and the Laws are the Laws. The people of Tok are victims of the judicial system failure. Just because they live in Tok does not mean that they are free game for criminals.
Rex only stopped because he injured his own knee in the attack. Maybe they should have looked at what may have happened had the idea not actually hurt himself.
I know people that saw the damage he did and this case was not overcharged. There were other people involved too that stood by and watched, wonder what happened to them?
Stupid DA never should have accepted the deal. Lazy SOBs should PROSECUTE the crime not plead them out.
What a JOKE! Pretty sad when it is pled out to 2 years. He deserved much more than that. And the others involved? Pretty much a joke too. They got NOTHING. Yes, it seems to me our DA's need to be fired over crap like this.
I hear the frustration of you all...and as one who follows the criminal justice system, etc. very close, I let out a big "INCREDIBLE" upon hearing this plea deal yesterday.
That said, "AngryAlaskan," Susan Carney is a dear friend, doing her job. Defending her client.
This deal is a two-way street, and can't be struck unless the prosecution agrees to it, and a judge accepts it as well.
That all took place.
But to wish a "savage beating" on this woman, wife and mother of children is a bit over the top.
Be pissed off, yes!
Rex Owen DeFrance needs his ass beat in the same manner that he subjected upon Mr. Howard if you ask me.
And thank goodness this wasn't a Homicide.
But to wish violence on an innocent woman doing her job.
Just isn't the way to go.
Well, maybe he'll get more than 2yrs. next time.
If this story is true, I hope there are people waiting to teach this boy a lesson when he gets out! Two years isn't enough time to thank about it!
He's not really guilty at all.
Just ask uncle Ted
Oldskoolnook42- She isn't just doing her job. She is helping him get away with severe crimes. You think an ass beating should given to the one who committed the crime, but not to the one who helped him get away with it? Susan Carney is someones mother, and Rex is someones son. What's your point? Neither one is any good for society in this case. Rex will be pleased to know that you and "Your friend" support what he has done, and are all for him getting back on the streets so that he can do it again. Best of luck to you and your friend Susan, maybe when he gets out you can all celebrate by having a big booze party for him.
And that is the problem with the DA's in this state. They are accountable to NO ONE except the Attorney General, who , as we have learned, has his own issues. While I don't think we should go so far as to have elected DA's, I think there should be some form of a public retention vote, similar to the judges. However, I also think that the state should hire enough asst. DA's so that they are not constantly drowning in their case loads, and aren't pressured into making pleas like this one as a result.
Who wants to go to oldskoolnook42 and Susan Carney's welcome home Rex party? You know she celebrated the outcome of this case. After all getting a sentence reduced from 200 years to 2 years is one hell of an accomplishment. Good to know the savage criminal animals have someone they can turn to. Fine oldskoolnook42, she was just doing her job, so thank you Susan for the 2 year notice that that animal will be back to beating people. I think Susan should pull her head out of her butt, it may make a loud popping sound, but she needs to apologize to all of us for her selfish motives in this case.
Wonder if the knee injury happened at the same time the other fellow lost his teeth. Its good to know that I can feed minors alcohol and then beat a man half to death in front of them and only get two years for it. Way to go justice system. I'm sure the victim and his family are very impressed with your verdict! At least they are making him pay the medical bills and vehicle damage. That will probably hurt the guy worse than the jail time. Been to a hospital or a body shop lately??? Ouch!!
With stories like this and the soldier who was just killed in Anchorage by a felon two weeks out of prison, I'm thinking that I wouldn't mind too much if people start putting their concealed carry permits to good use. Using deadly force to prevent violent crime is justifiable, and taking trash like this straight to the dumpster instead of letting it sit in jail while we pay for it would go a long way in cleaning up our great state. Oh, and re-introduce the death penalty while we are at it. There is simply no justification for allowing violent offenders to continue to waste good air.
twodecades-here is some more helpful info for people...you can commit these crimes cause Susan Carney and her sidekick oldskoolnook42 have your back! I'm surprised Susan doesn't help Rex sue for the knee injury, I'm sure that will come up next.
Damn! I struck a nerve "AngryAlaskan."
And apparently, you don't have any defense attorney's in your family.
As I said, I hear your frustration...and it is warranted.
But she's not the only defense attorney out there.
There are many, many more out there....all seeking the best deal for their clients.
Thankless profession? Yes it is.
But this deal isn't the first being struck that frustrates the public, and it won't be the last.
A young man just struck a plea deal recently and received 30 years for Murder. Shooting someone to death. Here in Fairbanks.
I understand your frustration.
But wishing violence on someone that is sworn to represent clientele in this manner.....has done it, did it yesterday, and will continue to do it, isn't the way to go.
And you're asking for apologies? It shouldn't be just from her, but from the system as a whole.
I agree though....he deserves much more time than two years.
As "Angry" as you sound...maybe you could be waiting for him when he gets out of prison.
Let him know just how you feel on a personal perspective.
Have a good day.....
outrage...are you serious...beat a kid to near death and get 2 yrs. I wonder who his next victim will be. At least now he knows if he stops before they die he won't have long in jail.
I am in total disbelief at this sentence. What a joke of a legal system! Rex has assaulted many other people, including one of my family members. He's attempted murder on other people and he will again in two years time. He was an interstate fugitive, and takes no responsibility for his actions and the harm he has caused others. Thank you Your Honor for making everyone feel safe, and that justice has prevailed. I feel for the young man whom Rex nearly murdered, and his family.
Geez "Angryalaskan" give it up, Susan wasnt there egging him on telling him to beat this kid up, she simply did her job. As a defense attorney she is responsible to defend him to the best of her ability. So by your thinking every defense attny. that gets their client off/or short sentences should be subject to the same infraction suffered by the victims in their cases? Dalmers attny should be eatten alive, Ted Bundy's attny. should be raped and killed, OJ's attny's should be stabbed to death. Be angry at the criminal not the attny. doing their job...especially a state appointed attny. they have no choice but to defend these low lives.
If anyone has IRS problems it seems she might be a good attorney to get...
I am in total disbelief at this sentence. What a joke of a legal system! Rex has assaulted many other people, including one of my family members. He's attempted murder on other people and he will again in two years time. He was an interstate fugitive, and takes no responsibility for his actions and the harm he has caused others. Thank you Your Honor for making everyone feel safe, and that justice has prevailed. I feel for the young man whom Rex nearly murdered, and his family, and I fear for my family.
Birds of a feather flock together. Sorry oldskoolnook42, Susan Carney's, criminals and people who are physically violent aren't who I hang with. So I would never be the one to wait for someone when they get out so that I can behave like them. There are people out there like that, more power to them. I am angry about a lot of things, doesn't mean that I puff up my chest and run around shaking my fist at everyone. Angry doesn't have to be violent.
This is pretty ridiculous! So is it my understanding that the judge could say, NO, on the plea and order a trial? What a piece of CRAP! Oldskool is right, the lawyer isn't the only one doing this. I blame the DA for even considering a plea on this one. No accountability at all. Not that this would be applicable for this case, but Alaska needs the DEATH PENALTY.
bookkeeper- Bundy represented himself. These are serial killers you are talking about. Jeffery dahmer's attorney was not screaming bogus or grossly overcharged charges. John Wayne Gacy, Charles Meach III, Ed Geen, Robert Hansen, Bob Berdella etc the attorneys for these animals were only trying to prevent death penalty, not put them back on the streets as soon as possible. Rex sounds like a career criminal, doesn't mean we look at it as he was just doing his job. I do feel that if an attorney gets someone dangerous set free, they should be the first one to suffer the consequences. Attorney's like Susan Carney are the reason crimes get worse. Her kind are the reason criminal walk the streets and terrorize the good people. If she can sleep good at night, then there is something wrong with her.
Of course the other side of the coin is that if we want a better criminal justice system, we as citizens must be willing to PAY FOR IT. The reason these deals happen all the time is that there is constant back pressure from the dept. of corrections to NOT put more people in jail. Every jail/prison in this state is overcrowded, and most are beyond the "emergency capacity." And before you say "just pack 'em in there like the animals they are" realize that the state has already been successfully sued once many years ago for inhuman treatment of prisoners. It's called the Cleary decision, and it cost the state million and millions of dollars. People are constantly screaming for less government, and this is what we get; this is less government. Until we are as citizens willing to shell out the big bucks (i.e. hundreds of millions of dollars) to build enough prison space to house these guys, the judges and DA's are going to be stuck in the middle; pressure to put these guys in for longer sentences from one side, and pressure to not put new ones in at all and let others out early from the other side.
So while I absolutely agree that this sentence was shockingly short, none of the p*ssing and moaning in the world on these boards will change anything. If you want real change, contact your legislators and tell them that you want to put more of state government's money toward increased prison space. And then wait for the REAL crying to begin on these boards.
If the news is correct with the facts on this case and it was as brutal as they make it sound, this is not justice.
This is a joke of the State's justice system.
(Leaves me wondering if parts of this story are not being stated.)
What they are not telling us is that Rex hid in a village from Troopers for over 2 months while threatening to "finish the job" on Howard, then fled to Montana to avoid these charges. He was arrested in Montana with a known Methamphetamine dealer and ultimately extradited back to Alaska to face "justice". I think he was on the run almost longer than his "sentence".
are you kidding?
Hey justatrooper. If we stop putting pot smokers in jail there will be PLENTY of room for actual criminals. Won't have to build a thing and we can spend a LITTLE of the savings on education and rehabilitation like sensible countries do.
Just a thought.
justatrooper is partially right.We need more jail space (and it ain't gonna be cheap building wise or STAFFING and TRAINING) but the back pressure isn't there to keep the bad guys out of prison. If someone is arrested, the jail WILL take them.
twodecades- there are way more than the little pot smokers in jail.
DAs should have to account to the public at least as much as Judges do if not a public election. Judges should also be held more accountable than they currently are. Defense Attornys are a different breed and like anything else, there are good ones and there are bad ones. morally, ethically and practically.
I wrote a post a bit ago and lost it in an error in my inserting it..so I had to start over and I think I will keep my added opinion to myself.. this missive below spells it out..especially the very end where it talks about Judges.
I do have ONE thing to say though.
The Lawyer said the case was GROSSLY OVERCHARGED? Tell that the young man whos physical body was damaged and his life almost SNUFFED OUT if it wasnt for the knee!!! Tell that to the family of his that got word and suffered all sorts of thoughts and feelings about their child!! I believe God was on the side of that child to spare him his life. I hope he recognizes just how blessed he was by the Lord to spare him and give him thanks!! As for Rex? Im going to keep my mouth shut....if he doesnt turn from his evil wicked ways with sincerity...he won't get past God with this..the All Time Eternal Judge.
Bible in Basic English
Cursed are those who give the name of good to evil, and of evil to what is good: who make light dark, and dark light: who make bitter sweet, and sweet bitter!
Those are in a woful condition who set up sin, and who exert themselves to gratify their base lusts. They are daring in sin, and walk after their own lusts; it is in scorn that they call God the Holy One of Israel. They confound and overthrow distinctions between good and evil. They prefer their own reasonings to Divine revelations; their own devices to the counsels and commands of God. They deem it prudent and politic to continue profitable sins, and to neglect self-denying duties. Also, how light soever men make of drunkenness, it is a sin which lays open to the wrath and curse of God. Their judges perverted justice. Every sin needs some other to conceal it.
You think two years is too light of a sentence?
What about that scumbag GI who beat the TODDLER nearly to death a while back? The poor baby had to be medivac'd to Anchorage where he was in intensive care for a week.
The soldier GOT NO CRIMINAL PUNISHMENT AT ALL. NO CHARGES AT ALL!!!
At least the guy in this story got two years, and he wasn't even beating up on a completely, totally defenseless BABY!
Hey Justme --
There is NO GOD.
Please keep the preaching of your book of myths and legends were it belongs -- in your house of brainwashing... (umm, I mean, church).
Thanks and have a nice day!
Oh, and by the way, the absolute worst group for giving "the name of good to evil, and of evil to what is good" is organized religion. Just look at the Bible Baptist sign sometime!
Let's see - a potential of 200 yrs pleaded down to 2 yrs....oh yeah, that's justice for ya. (Rolling eyes)
Alaska does have the money for prisons. There is a lot of money that is wasted that could go for more prisons. I'm sure that people would pay for it if the people could be guaranteed the money would solely go for the prison and not new roads or bonuses or bridge to nowhere BS. Prison is supposed to be a punishment, it doesn't have to be or have the best of the best stuff. Cut out anything that is a privilege, not just the freedom part of it. Give them nothing but bibles to read and high school education books. NO TELEVISION! NO CABLE! NO COOKIES! NO TATOOS! Give them all depo-provera shots, NO SEX!
Twodecades, I'm sorry, but your argument just doesn't hold water. According to page 14 of the document on this website, http://www.correct.state.ak.us/correctio..., on the last day of 2007 (the day in which the numbers were crunched) there were a whopping TWO people in the entire state penal system housed for simple possession of marijuana, and only 8% of the entire population is in there for drug offenses, including all of the serious felonies. It's not the simple pot smokers taking up the space in our prisons, it is the physical and sexual abusers and probation/parole violators.
My, my, my.... Where to begin. In a word; disgusting... unbelievable... ridiculous... The list goes on. Judges, DA's, Public Defender's Agencies, and Office of Public Advocacy offices and the rest are on an incredible "rehabilitation" kick. They don't understand nor want to understand that there is no rehabilitating those who don't wish to change. Rex is only one of MANY that is reaping the benefits of getting off easy because of this. Rather then probation they need to be staying in confinement. These people are the leeches of society in or out of prison so they may as well stay in. Probation is a joke. One Probation Officer is supposed to keep track of 20-30-40-50+ probationers and keep them on the straight and narrow?! Not going to happen and it doesn't.
Rex, severely beats Howard, with his fists, stomping and kicking his face, strangling to the point of unconsciousness, and then took his body to the river bank and started the entire process all over again. Punching, stomping, kicking, strangling. Rex then injures himself and leaves the beaten, bloodied, toothless, and unconscious Howard to fend for himself. If Rex hadn't injured himself there would've been a body recovery conducted because an unconscious body was going to be thrown into the Tanana River.
Rex then fleas police vowing to finish the job prior to fleeing the state. Rex is then arrested in Montana transporting meth and extradited to Alaska.
The older I get and the more experience I have with the Legal System the less faith I have in it. Even to the point of packing my concealed handgun with me just about everywhere I go.
This sentence is simply ridiculous! Only serves two years and Alaska only requires a 2/3 time in jail for "good time" which means he only really serves 18 months. That will let him out of jail shortly after his sentencing. I'm willing to bet that he will be back in jail not too long after released.
Thank you legal system.
Sincerely,
Disappointed Again.
Hey Newsreader--why don't you prove to all of us that there is NO GOD. Until then keep your nonfactual statements to yourself.
Thanks and have a nice day.
Interesting.
I wonder what was the loophole or technicality?
Very interesting.
justatrooper- What do you think? What do you think it would take to clean up society? What could help?
Oh, lala, sorry, but you didn't say please!
(Note - I did)
But, here you go --
God (as told in the bible) is unchanging.
Man's ideas of god have evolved over time (FACT).
Man has invented many gods (FACT).
Man has changed his concepts of god (FACT).
Therefore, man made god, and thus, god does not exist.
Q.E.D.
another simple case of money talks.. b.s walks ..so sad
What happened to the COWARDS who stood by and allowed this?
MrS
Wait, here's another one --
The bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of a perfect god.
The bible contains many contradictions (FACT).
The bible contains many errors (FACT).
Thus, since god is supposed to be perfect, yet his "inerrant word" contains imperfection, your perfect god does not exist.
Q.E.D.
dalejr - Money isn't talking. His attorney works for the Office of Public Advocacy. He's not paying much at all if anything. In this case it's the BS that is doing the talking and walking. haha!
MrS - The cowards are like most people. MOST people will simply observe, hide, and or take care of themselves rather then act in order to stop a heinous crime in fear for themselves, sheep. In fact, those 'COWARDS' are the only reason that Howard is alive. CPR was conducted multiple times by the 'COWARDS' during intermissions between beatings. Those intermissions were only because of the 'COWARDS' pulling Rex off of Howard. The charging documents outline the entire event but most news agencies only report their translated versions to make good news.
"God (as told in the bible) is unchanging."
I am not going to pretend that I know any kind of quotes, but this I believe is true. Just because man tries to make the bible fit and mold to their way of life doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. You aren't selling me....try harder.
"The bible contains many contradictions (FACT).
The bible contains many errors (FACT)."
I have a hard time believing that the bible (translated from a different language) wouldn't have some contradictions and errors. I still am not finding the proof in your statements. Come on Newsreader--clear this up for all of us believers. PLEASE
I cant believe people stood by and watched this kid get a beating like this i damn well would of helped to stop it just like the old days when me and three friends found a guy slapping a woman around behind the bentley mall he never thought three thirteen year olds would whip his ass that bad. I wont go into the god thing i dont know if he really did or does excist but i am not messing with him i want to stay on somewhat good terms with him
Thank you, itscold.
However,..."CPR was conducted multiple times by the 'COWARDS' during intermissions between beatings. Those intermissions were only because of the 'COWARDS' pulling Rex off of Howard." If they were able to pull him off, why weren't they able to keep him off?
Anyone know how to access the charging documents?
Perhaps calling them cowards was ignorance on my part. I had a visceral reaction.
MrsS
HOLY COW...newsreader and lagirl, news flash...this story is about a man getting a light sentence for a harsh crime not whether or not GOD exists. Why dont one of you write a letter to the editor on that subject if you want to argue about it. (but not newsreader as he thinks just because he states something as (FACT) it is so. Not hardly buddy).
Well said lagirl.
newsreader-The bible contains many errors (FACT)-NO THAT IS NOT A FACT! Some churches contain errors in their teachings (THAT IS A FACT)
The Bible is your manual for life. I don't follow it 100% like I should, but I do read it and have become a better person because of it. I highly recommend learning about it, I promise...It would never do you harm.
Home Bible studies is the best way to go. Give it a try...you'll thank me in about 2 years when it all makes sense and sinks in.
So how many people did Rex have control of? They were either with him or against him? Were they just doing CPR because Rex wasn't done yet? The whole things sick.
bookeeper--I know you are new to this game, but you will learn.
Oh, lala! You admit that the "inerrant" word of god contains contradictions and errors!!!
Blasphemer! You're gonna smoke a turd in purgatory for that one!
*grin*
Seriously though, if you can admit that the "inerrant" word of your "perfect" god contains errors and contradictions, how can you possibly still accept that such a "perfect" god exists? The two are contradictory - basic logic dictates that both can not be true. Therefore, the bible, which is the only "proof" of god, is in fact in error and can not be believed or trusted.
What more proof do you need?
That's more than enough for me.
[BTW - The first proof I outlined above is actually a disproof of one of Decartes' "proofs" of god as given in his most famous "I think, therefore I am" document. He gives several other "proofs" in this book, each of which are easily combated with simple logic.]
Will you admit that man has invented many gods throughout history? Or that prior to man inventing gods, he worshiped spirits of nature or his ancestors? It is readily obvious that man's concepts of spirits/magic/gods have evolved with society. Thus their is no innate "concept" of god.
Since man's spiritual concepts have evolved with society, man made them. There is no "absolute all powerful being", rather there is a plethora of complex spiritual beliefs that have evolved with society over the last few hundred thousand years.
Therefore, man made god, not the other way around.
Q.E.D.
[I should add, to accept that you Christians happened to "hit" on the only true religion, while discarding ALL of the other religions, spiritual beliefs, gods, etc., is ridiculously arrogant and thus I reject that concept right away. It is much simpler to discard outrageous claims that can not (have not, will not) be proven than it is to accept them. To do otherwise would be very foolish, wouldn't it?]
bookeeper says -- "(but not newsreader as he thinks just because he states something as (FACT) it is so. Not hardly buddy)."
If you would like to dispute any of the 5 things I listed above as facts, you would be foolish, but feel free.
angryalaskan growled -- "newsreader-The bible contains many errors (FACT)-NO THAT IS NOT A FACT!"
Sorry, but it is. Here's a list of 143 contradictions http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Cont...
Even if you don't accept them all, you must accept some of them.
For instance:
58. Man was created after the other animals
Gen 1:25,26,27
Man was created before the other animals
Gen 2:18,19
59. Seed time and harvest were never to cease
Gen 8:22
Seed time and harvest did cease for seven years
Gen 41:54,56/ Gen 45:6
61. All the cattle and horses in Egypt died
Ex 9:3,6/ 14:9
All the horses of Egypt did not die
Ex 14:9
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
24. Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15
25. Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8
27. Killing commanded
Ex 32:27
Killing forbidden
Ex 20:13
29. The making of images forbidden
Ex 20:4
The making of images commanded
Ex 25:18,20
30. Slavery and oppression ordained
Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
Slavery and oppression forbidden
Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10
Sounds like he ratted out his buddies in montana for lesser sentence.Snitches aren't liked by good people or bad people.
I admit that men do stange things and did the interpretation of the bible....I do admit that men are not perfect.
angryalaskan continues - "The Bible is your manual for life. I don't follow it 100% like I should, but I do read it and have become a better person because of it. I highly recommend learning about it, I promise...It would never do you harm.
Home Bible studies is the best way to go. Give it a try...you'll thank me in about 2 years when it all makes sense and sinks in."
Sorry, I've read the bible - multiple times. Been there, done that. It is an interesting collection of antiquated fables, fairy tales, and myths. After reading it, I can no more accept its stories as reality than I can the Lord of the Rings or the Harry Potter books.
I take particular offense at the "I promise...It would never do you harm" statement. Try telling that to all of the American Natives that were slaughtered based upon the word of god. Try telling that to the gays that are ridiculed, abused, beaten and murdered throughout our country based upon the word of god. Try telling that to the children molested by the Catholic church. Try telling that to the Blacks that still don't have equal status in our country (getting better though - Go Obama!).
Your statement is ignorant and disgusting.
Yes ,foolish like stating that there's no god. One would have to be God to know there's no god; but wait, that would mean one would be god.
Try something more practical like proving there's no WM-D's.
realdeal...that's Oh Lord...won't you buy me a Mercedez Benz..
You darn hippies, take a shop class!
It's very important to remember that there was a judge in this case, and quite likely a jury. There are also a variety of statutes that must be followed accordingly; perhaps this was why the former charges were changed to lesser ones. If the prosecution does not feel they have a strong case - and this is dependent on witness testimony and whatever factual evidence is available - then they will not pursue certain charges as they cannot be upheld within a court of law; grand jurors know that there has to be "sufficient evidence for a conviction." It's that simple. Ms. Carney did her job, and I commend her for having the stamina to work in the Public Defender's office. Unless you attended any of the court proceedings or read the case file, you do not know exactly how the end result was achieved. To put so much blame on one person - namely Ms. Carney - is very narrow-minded to say the least. The blame should lie directly with Defrance for not being able to control his anger. We can only hope that society never lets him forget the intolerable crime he has committed. If his charges were reduced because of inconsistencies in his case within the law, then it is up to our society to see that they are changed. Shame on you for bringing up the old Bible debate: it's COMPLETELY irrelevant to this matter. (I still chuckled at all of the contradictions.)
frozenfishwoman says "Shame on you for bringing up the old Bible debate: it's COMPLETELY irrelevant to this matter."
I could not agree with you more.
Now, try telling that to Justme.
Plainview --
I agree with you that no ABSOLUTE proof can be given short of being god (or, perhaps time travel?)
However, even in our court systems things only need be proven to the point of a "reasonable doubt".
I can point out all sorts of "reasonable doubts" regarding the existence. But, none regarding the absence of existence.
Thank you fisherwoman. The thread was sinking into the depths! Appreciate your view....well said.
newsreader - We have arrived! Nothing from nothing leaves nothing ( "and you gotta have something if you wanna be with me..." ) . Billy Preston told me so and I find his song quite reasonable. No doubt about 'tat.
The sentence is ridiculous. I agree with Newsreader there is no God although that is not the issue here. Too many people worship a fictitious "god" as a crutch to make them feel better. This criminal should be dumped in the Tanana will a belly full of log chain.
Pat
Oh Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz, my friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends ... worked hard all my life ...
Okay, enough. (PS, I'm Christian and do love that song! Christians before freaking out and quoting scripture: read the lyrics, isn't it actually satire on "Modern Secular Christianity?)
200 years to 2 years.
That's not overcharged. That's outrageous. On the God issue, sure let God sort him out. But can we detain him until his day of reckoning? Regardless of the circumstances, I don't feel comfortable with this guy mingling with the rest of us in two years.
First, I would like to say I agree with everyone who says this plea deal was absurd.
That said, I think it is absurd that anyone would think the public defender who got this deal should be beat. I don't know Ms. Carney, but I do know that she is required to defend this man to the best of her ability. If she doesn't, it can be thrown out on appeal. As a public defender, she can not pick and chose who she defends.
To say money talks and bs walks doesn't make any sense to me in reference to this case. If the defendant had money he would not have been represented by a public defender.
Justatrooper...page 14 says that 8.4% are in for drugs but it does not break down how many of the assaults, burglaries, thefts, forgeries and murders were drug related. I would bet if the offenses that were committed to either get drugs or because they were high on drugs were figured in the drug related offenses would be over 50%.
Angryalaskan, in answer to your questions: What do you think? What do you think it would take to clean up society? What could help?
We as a society have agreed to accept a certain level of crime. Believe it or not, I think we have the balance mostly right, but could do a little more (as a society) to bring down the crime levels. To bring down crime, we have to be willing to do one of two things. Be more tolerant when the criminal justice system gets into the gray areas of civil rights violations (which for the record I think is a bad idea) and be willing to pay for it, monetarily. If we had empty jail cells, judges with vacancies on their calenders, and DA's with manageable case loads, this sentence never would have happened. But we don't have those things because they all cost money. As long as the people who want a more effective criminal justice are complaining just as loudly as the people who want reduced government (which seems to about be the case now) it's a tie, and we have achieved as much as a balance as we're going to get. We will never have a unanimous opinion, but until there are more people who are willing to pay (in the form of one tax or another, be it on oil companies, lower dividends, statewide sales tax, what have you) more for a better system than there are those that are against it, the system will remain status quo. It's all about the almighty dollar, and the citizens of this state have been led to believe for well over 20 years that government is free. Unfortunately, it is not, but we get the government we are willing to pay for.
zo6lady, I'm not quite sure what your point is, could you please clarify? Are you saying that if drugs were legal, all of those other crimes wouldn't have happened? Twodecades point was that the jail was overcrowded becuase of simple pot smokers, which simply isn't true.
justatrooper- Thank you for your opinion. I guess the best thing for people to do are things that don't cost money that will benefit society later. Like teaching our children right from wrong. Taking the time and sacrificing extra money and luxury to ensure our children are being watched. Making sure our children learn respect and love. And hope that our children teach their children. Thank you for helping make society a safer place.
When I was little my parents taught me the ten commandments. For the most part, minus the observing the sabbath, I have done a good job.
We werent religious, but I think its a good lesson, for everybody. If there was an eleventh commandment, it should be "thou shall not drink and drive"
newsreader
"I can point out all sorts of "reasonable doubts" regarding the existence. But, none regarding the absence of existence."
I think that it is perfectly reasonable to assume the absence of existence, and that life as we know it is just one of infinite random possibilities. We are here due to the random nature of the universe.
Realdeal, you asked more questions than I can probably answer in one post, but I'll give it a try. First, not everyone is in the traffic division. There are two troopers and a Sgt. on the traffic team here in Fairbanks, and their emphasis is on traffic enforcement as a whole, not just on DUIs. They are still in the DUI cars, even though the DUI team is no longer in existence, because obviously repainting the cars is very expensive.
As far as priorities late at night, clearly, arresting impaired drivers, at any time of day, reduces alcohol related crashes. The difference is that with the night shift, they have more time to work on traffic enforcement. We have to have a minimum number of troopers on shift, from a safety point of view. We have just enough now to put that minimum into place on all three shifts, with a few to spare on some days. Those troopers clearly get fewer calls at 3:00am than they do at 3:00 pm, so they have more time to get out and do pro-active enforcement, vs. just running call to call. However, when stuff goes bad late at night, it usually goes really bad, and having more troopers available is necessary. We would love to put more troopers onto day shift to do daytime traffic enforcement, focus on property crimes, etc, but we simply don't have the manpower to do it. The new traffic bureau however, will be working during the day as well as at night.
Why does it take four troopers to haul in one traffic violator? It doesn't, so if you really saw four trooper cars at the scene, you can bet there was more going on that just a traffic violation. Was the guy drunk and fighting? Were there multiple people in the car with warrants? Had someone run from the vehicle and were being tracked down? I don't know, and without knowing the circumstances, I can't explain why you may have seen four troopers.
As far as dragging them out of their house, and demanding their papers? I don't know what your talking about, so I can't comment.
As far as being focused on traffic violations, I don't think that we are unduly focused on traffic. It is clearly part of our mandate, and as you can see by the article that spawned this conversation, Fairbanks, like every town, has it's share of those who violate traffic laws. It's our job to catch those violators and try to change their behavior for everyone's benefit. (and for questions about us generating revenue from traffic tickets, please see my comments above.) I hope I answered your questions. If not, please ask again, and I will do my best to answer.
realdeal, I am not sure what numbers you are referring to, or what you mean by telling you what to do.
Unfortunately, Rex did not get what he deserved. For a crime that violent, he should have gotten at least 10 years of hard time, with no parole and no credit for time served. The fact that he fled to Montana is "interstate flight to avoid prosecution' isn't that a Federal crime? Kidnapping IS a Federal crime. Why is this felon not in a Federal pen somewhere?
justatrooper - You may as well save your breath. You can talk until you're blue in the face but with some people it will never be sufficient. There are way too many people that "hate you(Police) until they need you(Police)"...i.e. ... Like when they are being beaten, drug to a river and beaten some more.
Fisherwoman - The only jury involved was the grand jury, that found true bill on ALL counts. Beyond that, there was no jury involvement. This was a plea deal; between attorney's, and judge involvement is minimal.
The real deal is that the victim is a crook also and I'm sure that the DA is worried about credibility of his testimony on the stand against another crook.
p.s. Defrance was recently out of jail for a prior assault before this incident.
I'm done with this post. It's no longer actually about the article. People are pointlessly arguing over something that nobody can actually prove "beyond a reasonable doubt". haha!
Hey Newsreader --
There is A GOD.
Please keep the preaching of your book of myths and legends were it belongs -- in your own athiestic mind.
Thanks and have a nice day!
Oh, and by the way, the absolute best group for exposing those who "call evil good and good evil" is Bible Baptist Church and their sign!
Bookkeeper said, "HOLY COW...newsreader and lagirl, news flash...this story is about a man getting a light sentence for a harsh crime not whether or not GOD exists."
xxxxx
EVERY post Newsreader makes is about whether God exists, Bookkeeper. I think he's trying to convince himself!
Sorry to continue his "off-topic" thread, but, good grief, someone might actually BELIEVE some of his wild claims are true!!!
alaskaflower, way off topic. i hope your post is deleted.
now, about the crime: what a joke. i can't believe he just got let off the hook for that. i hope the family of the guy who almost died is furious right now. i would be. i hope i never run into this guy
Newsreader, have you ever bothered to check out any of these so-called contradictions that you have so readily copied from the wesite?
Take, for example, #61. READ the passage cited! NO WHERE does it say that all the horses died!
Any so-called contradiction in the Bible can be explained by any person who truly knows and studies the Bible and who has the indwelling presence of the Spirit of God to help him understand the Scriptures.
The Bible teaches that no Scrripture is of any private interpretation. This means that no individual can assign his own interpretation to any given Scripture. But a more primary application is that you cannot take an individual verse or passage out from its context and assign it a meaning “out of context.” And you must “interpret" any given verse or passage in the light of the Bible as a whole, taking into consideration other portions that may shed light on the passage.
An example of this is #3. God dwells in light. God dwells in darkness. This is not a contradiction. God is omnipresent. He is everywhere.
#5 is another example of misreading and misquoting. Exodus 31:17 does not say God was tired. It says that He rested after He completed His creation. He stopped. Music has rests. Places where the music stops. Do you think music gets tired?
In past postings, you have brought up other portions of the Bible that you claim are contradictions. I have given you explanations of each of them, based upon the teachings of the entire Bible. You have ignored every one of my responses, and have repeated your already-disproven claims.
You will never understand the Bible. You don’t want to. Your mind is closed.
Newsreader said, "I take particular offense at the "I promise...It would never do you harm" statement. Try telling that to all of the American Natives that were slaughtered based upon the word of god. Try telling that to the gays that are ridiculed, abused, beaten and murdered throughout our country based upon the word of god. Try telling that to the children molested by the Catholic church. Try telling that to the Blacks that still don't have equal status in our country (getting better though - Go Obama!).
Your statement is ignorant and disgusting."
xxx
Newsreader, you cannot place blame on the Bible for men who (like you) misquote the Bible to justify their actions. The fact that God gave mankind dominion over the earth in no way justified the European settlers who claimed the right to kill the Indians. Nothing in the Bible advocates molesting gays or abusing children or lack of status for blacks. In fact, if the Catholic church had read the Bible, they would have read that a Bishop is to be "the husband of one wife," and the abuse would never have taken place.
realdeal - are you aware that as a civilian you could do a ride along with a trooper? Maybe you should try it, it might give you a better idea of what happens during an average shift. When I did mine about 15 minutes was spent on traffic enforcement and the rest was spent responding to a domestic violence, looking for the other party involved, helping out at the seen of an incredibly bad accident, going to the hospital afterwards to talk to the drivers, filling out paperwork from above mentioned actions and probably several other things that I am now forgetting - it has been over a year and the old memory is not what it used to be. On that day the trooper I rode with worked well over his allotted 8 hour shift and never stopped for lunch.
Do we really want this person out in the public in oh, 18 months to 2 years? I doubt it. What ever happened to being a productive member of society? I remember a teacher in grade school saying that without rules there would be no civilization, that teacher seems so much wiser to me now. We are well on the way. The only reason this wasn't a murder case is because the one being beaten somehow survived, it should have been tried as an attempted murder and that should carry the same sentence as murder 1.
Thank you alaskaflower.
ANGRY !!!!! I am angry at the whole situation. 4 years with 2 suspended? What a joke and an insult. This is not sufficient punishment. Murder is murder, how in the world can they 'reduce' the charge? Absolutely makes no common sense. Angry over the whole thing.
you know I just got to thinking.. when it comes to mankind.... the people that do something minor like not being able to pay a bill get put in jail for 10 yrs and yet a potential murderer gets let off with a real light sentence.
Even dogs in our country are excommunicated, killed and or banned for being POTENTIAL Killers BEFORE they kill someone they say.. yet a Man can be a Potential killer with proof they were that close to killing someone and they get a slap on the hand. Wanting to KILL someone and trying to do so in my book is enough to put them away for a LONG time...
I say if they let him go..then ALL Pitbulls, Rotti's, German Shepherds,and like breeds and chihuahuas get pardoned from now on... FAIR IS FAIR!!!!
one last word from me.
first of all God and the Bible has nothing to do with this article on DeFrance you say?
It has everything to do with it. It spells out WHY these things are happening.
let me enlighten some of you on something to clarify some things.
1) Unless you are in the Spirit of God, a Born Again believer and follower of Jesus Christ, you will only see the Word of God by the LETTER OF THE WORD.. which is by mere secular human standards which is a lot to be desired. You will not SEE what God has in it for you because you are not walking in the Spirit of God in the first place. The Bible does say its has its "mysteries' but by Gods Spirit those things are revealed to HIS and His alone. If you dont serve the Lord you are in the dark..therefor you will not see the truth for what it is. Your minds are darkened to the truths. Its just what satan wants.
Secondly... all the sad things that go on in the world is simply this.. SIN... Mankind has from the time of Adam and Eve made a choice to MAKE their own CHOICES in how they want to live. So if someone kills someone else..children, adults.. rapes, drugs, abuse ...etc..its all because each person has the choice to sin or to follow in obedience Gods way. When they choose their own way.. sin runs rampant and God is out of the picture there and sin does its evil deeds. Unfortunatly good people suffer at the hands of evil people who want their own way. Such as is the case of Rex DeFrance.
God gives us a choice to give our lives and hearts to Him or to do our own thing. Do your own thing and you stand outside the grace of God. Its your choice.
Rex chose to do what he did..if he were to TRULY give his heart to the Lord I believe God will forgive him and it will be remembered no more..but keep in mind that Rex must LIVE his life for the Lord and do those things no more. But if he only SAYS it and doesnt live it, he is not sincere and God knows that too. that doesn't mean Rex won't have to pay restitution for his wrong. And if he truly gave himself to the Lord , he would do everything he could to do that and pray that the victim he hurt will forgive him.
Reading the Bible and KNOWING GOD as YOUR LORD and SAVIOR are two totally different things. You can read the Bible all you want but if your heart is NOT right before the Lord..He knows that too.
You dont have to argue that God isnt Real with me. You will find out eventually that HE is Real.
Dukit22,I would be angry also.this stories abit strange,A 26 year old punk hangin with a bounch of minor,then beating one as he bad as he did. one can only hope that his two year stinch will be the longest two years of this guys life.I predict he will meet a fella that will teach him the (other side of being a man) who knows thier might even be a wedding.I hope he gets gang raped.
Alaskaflower says - "In past postings, you have brought up other portions of the Bible that you claim are contradictions. I have given you explanations of each of them, based upon the teachings of the entire Bible..."
Here's an example of how the flower gives "explanations" --
http://newsminer.com/news/2008/apr/10/vi...
Posted on April 10 at 7:48 p.m
"Mr. Twain’s statement that the world has corrected the Bible is based on the assumption that the Bible is wrong, that it can contain error. If it is not wrong, if it contains no error, then all of the presumed corrections are in error. That deserves some thought."
So, because she believes the bible is inerrant, it can contain no error. Thus any one who finds an error must be wrong! How's that for the circular logic that is typified by the fanatical zealots she represents?
LMAO!
Here's one for you:
Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it:
MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
And another:
Insects do NOT have four feet!!!
LEV 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
LEV 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
LEV 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.
And another:
Order of creation
Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:
Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)
Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods."
The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:
Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)
I'm particularly interested in how the obvious difference in the creation myth between Gen 1 and Gen 2 can be "rationalized" away. I've yet to have anyone try to tackle that one... They just ignore it...
The bible a work written by men what a funny thing you folks quote. People seem so gullible and weak to me.
That said the principles are mostly good and it may help folks to be more civilized by believing in this so called man in charge.
Back on topic if there was such thing as a God why did he let this man off so easily? Why did he let such a thing happen?
I stand with Newsreader.
Pat
I wonder...............if it was a white man who beat up a native man would he get the same 2 year sentence?
Post a comment
Commenting requires registration.