Fairbanksans caught in crossfire as feuding gang members take aim at each other
Originally published Friday, August 15, 2008 at 4:26 p.m.
Updated Friday, August 15, 2008 at 6:58 p.m.
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FAIRBANKS -- Feuding gang members in at least three vehicles shot at each other shortly before 4 p.m. Friday on College Road, hitting two bystanders’ vehicles and causing a bicyclist to dive for cover, a Fairbanks police sergeant said.
No one was hurt, Sgt. Eric Jewkes said.
One of the vehicles caught in the crossfire had a 2-month-old baby in the back seat, Lt. Dan Welborn said. Molding on a rear passenger window of the vehicle was struck.
Seven people were taken to the police department for questioning. Authorities are still looking for a silver Isuzu Trooper and its occupants.
“We know who they are,” Welborn said, although he declined to immediately identify the suspects.
Police have been called to multiple gunfights in recent weeks, possibly involving the same suspects, Jewkes and Welborn said.
“It’s a turf war,” Welborn said.
The conflict is reportedly between members of the the Crips and the Bloods, urban street gangs with a long history of rivalry.
One recent gunfight was on Danby Road and another was at the Fort Wainwright main gate. Welborn said some of the suspected gang members are in the military.
The latest gunfight, in which 10 to 15 shots were fired, spanned about a mile on College Road from Aurora Drive to Illinois Street.
“It was kind of this rolling gun battle,” Jewkes said.
Dave Throop was headed west on College Road after finishing his job as a helicopter mechanic on Fort Wainwright.
Near the fairgrounds, he heard a popping sound.
“It sounded like firecrackers,” he said.
Then Throop heard a bang and glass sprayed him. He pulled into the parking lot at the fairgrounds.
“This all happened in an instant. I’m trying to take it all in,” he said.
A hole the size of a nickel was punched through his windshield about six inches below the rear view mirror. Throop's hand was cut from broken glass.
Throop got out of his older-model Mazda 323 and saw that a bullet had penetrated the windshield and the back seat, stopping in the trunk.
“I’m glad to be alive,” he said.
Down College Road at the Illinois Street Tesoro station, witnesses reported seeing a dark green Buick pull into the parking lot just as the rubber on the front passenger-side tire fell off.
Two bullet holes were visible on the rear of the car and the back window appeared to have been shot out.
The Buick was quickly followed by a green GMC.
At least six men jumped out of the two vehicles and began to argue loudly before police pulled up, witnesses said.
Officers spent more than 30 minutes interviewing people and searching the woods behind the gas station where witnesses also said they saw some of the men run.
Police also searched a silver Toyota 4Runner at the scene, but released the SUV and driver afterward.
The other two vehicles were towed from the scene.
David Ryberg is the head mechanic at the Alaska Fun Center, where multiple employees heard the gunfight.
“I was working,” Ryberg said. “All I heard was pop, pop, pop, pop. I heard probably five or six. I thought maybe it was a car backfiring, but it was just too many.”
A few minutes later, Ryberg went outside and saw ambulances.
No one was taken to the hospital, authorities said.
Jewkes said it’s still unclear how many firearms were involved in the gunfight.
Staff writer Amanda Bohman contributed to this report.
Community Discussion
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Welcome to Detroit-banks. Be sure to pick up your Kevlar parka at the city limits.
Scary. I wish that if people insisted on having gunfights they would at least take it out of town where they aren't risking the lives of everyone on the road. Bring back the old duels of the west. (Kidding!)
Another good reason for all of us to carry.
I saw the cops there. There were 10 cop cars. It was amazing to see this in Fairbanks.
I guess some folks have their heads in the sand around here.
Got the nerve to make light of this situation.
That's okay, I guess.
I just hope IF a bunch of "real winners" (gang members I've been told) decide to carry on a gun battle, supposedly over "turf," in broad daylight, while speeding along the STREETS of Fairbanks, and in YOUR immediate vicinity.....well lets just hope the bullets aren't bouncing around you and yours.
The attitude will definitely go from "kidding," to
"IN-@#$-CREDIBLE."
I agree with Preston.
Anyone that thinks this is still the Fairbanks of old, and things like this 'just don't happen here," needs to get a clue.
The age old "rap" adage STOP THE VIOLENCE?
Yeah, it applies here in the Golden Heart City too!
Folks here need to deal with that up close and personal...reality.
to bad they left the green suv go.
the main shooter involved in all these shootings goin on,
this is only one of the eight shootings that happend this week,
and no ones getting arrestesd.
haha'
its good to know this is the worlds dumbest criminals.
hmmm.....
I'm gonna have to start carrying a larger caliber firearm with more capacity I see....and maybe a couple extra magazines...
I think the silver suv got let loose.
I'm with Marie on this,let the little wannabe gangs go out to a secluded area and shoot it out,at some point some innocent bystander is going to get hurt.Most people in Alaska are usally armed and will get tired of these idiots and take care of it them selves,turf war what a joke,fighting over something they don't even own.
Lock these little punks up and throw away the key! And not in Club Fed, either - send 'em to Sheriff Joe in Arizona.
We need to stop making excuses for this type of behavior and start PUNISHING the culprits.
Oldsskool---
Which post do you think is kidding, or has their head up their ass?
All of these posters aren't kidding around. People will be armed to the teeth to protect their families.
Have you a different solution? Or do you just like to call people names, and act superior?
How come no one seems to care that this is an issue, at least in part, about Bloods and Crips who are in fact members of our US military? The recruiters are so desperate to get warm bodies to ship out to Iraq that they will take people with criminal records as long as my arm. We never had those guys in Fairbanks before! Just one more thing to lay at the feet of the Chimpanzee in Chief.
I missed this by minutes, I left earlier than normal to complete an errand... REALLY glad I did.
I agree Marie, these jerks want to be stupid? Let them go take their idiocy to the middle of nowhere where it affects only them. Some of these guys are in the military? Good! Maybe they will get put in a REAL jail!
Actually, Slider, that's not true - about 20 yrs ago, there was an article in the FDNM about how the Bloods and Crips were here, setting up shop. So - unless Bush had a hell of a lot of power 20 years ago, you can't blame this on him.
Ten to fifteen shots and not one shot hit the intended target???? Some are military???
No wonder progress has been slow in Iraq!!
Slinder hate to tell you but there's been little gangs around for quit awhile,they just haven't drawn as much attention as these idiots.As far as the military taking in people with criminal records,thats been going on way before Bush was in office.Of course with the statement of them being in the military thats going to put a bad rep towards the military when it's just a few idiots thinking there badasses from a rap video.
OH MY GOODNESS! This is the scariest thing I have heard happening in Fairbanks in a long time. You usually think of those things happening in the "bad" part of a town, but there isnt really a "bad" part of Fairbanks (like in big cities - usually the downtown)that you can just avoid to stay out of this kind of thing. Spraying bullets down College Road? I guess it goes to show that it really could happen anywhere.
Crips & BLOODS, careful with this reporting, some poor minority, may take offense!!
Guess the pistol under the seat of my truck is a "Good Thing" as Martha Stewart says!
I bet Dave Throop's still pumping adrenalin...Whoa!
You would think that the military would be able to control their behavior more. Gang ties when yous sign up? Restriction to base for the first 6 months, and not able to own a personal fire arm for a year. That gives everyone time to cool it off an get over their made up turf wars and "disses".
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Yup more clips for the .45. And I do in part blame the military. Most of these rapper pukes sport out of state plates.
Pat
Crips and Bloods huh! I don't think these punks realize where they are at. There a lot of Alaskans who have firearms on their person everday; even little old ladies who have lived here forever. Do they really think that we, the public, are going to cower down in fear ever time decide to shoot it out! I DON'T THINK SO!!! In my book two wrongs don't make a right. But these "gang bangers" have a long history violence in the lower 48; and will continue with their senseless violence here if they are not given a reason to stop or leave. The police and state troopers are doing the best they can, and I applaud them. They can't be everywhere though. We all have the right to bear arms; and to defend our selves if we feel justifiably threatened. I'm not saying we need to go out, find these punks, and have a shoot out with them. I am saying that there is nothing wrong with keeping a fire arm on your person. If these gangbangers start seeing more people who are able defend themselves, anytime they decide to shoot it out someplace, it might give them a reason to think it about twice.
There's a reason they don't shoot it out in front of the police staion, because the cops are armed and will shoot them if they try to shoot each other. In my opinion it comes down to tolerance. If we, the citizens, tolerate this violence in our town and by our homes it will become a what we would eventually call "normal". We would, in effect, be allowing them to be violent in our town and by our homes. I don't believe any one of us wants to tolerate any more violence than we already do. It needs to stop and can be stopped by all of us standing up to this violence together.
Gang bangers beware, Alaskans are armed and most of know how to shoot a gun fairly accurately. We live here knowing we might have to stare down a bear one day. Do you really want to try and stare down someone who has already made that choice? It's your decision, and your health. That's my two cents worth.
Okay, two things came to mind when I read this article, first %%&^$( I moved up here from SO. CAL. to get away from all of this. And then, military? Simple solution: catch them, identify them, ship them out. The ones in the military, same thing only ship them out to wherever, if they want to shoot people let them go shoot the bad guys.
In calf. when the gangs were getting way out of control that's exactly what LA did, they shipped them to another state. How about if we shipped them to any war torn area. I'll bet they don't keep that cocky attitude very long after that.
One last thought, jail does absolutely no good they just form up into gangs while in jail, once in a gang you can pretty much bet they will be in one for life.
never could understand gangs, all seemed rather immature to me. little kids fighting with big boys toys....over what? nothing important....out here in the interior we used our guns for shooting food to provide meat for our families not each other....wish we knew who all the dumbasses were so we could ship thier asses somewhere else.
I reiterate what I said previously on 8/8/08. Looks like the truth or some of it comes out at last from our authorities. Why if we know who these people are, have they been left on the streets or free on the military bases?? Legal system is failing us here, who are the lawyers, judges that are failing us. Would hope that any politician running for office this year with a legal degree fails to get elected. Caution to those who would like to defend themselves against this rabbel of thugs, our great legal system will put you away if you should happen to enflict harm to the lawless. (beware)
Ladies & Gentlemen
How far from the truth of the matter do you want to go?
Looking at the comments so far everyone pointing finger at this or that. Oh! Poor misguided youth (Dr. Spook, Dr Phil, Dr whoever) will come up with miracle cure for this. Right
Issue: Gangs in Fairbanks yes or no and why
Yes,
Why: Outsiders from Fairbanks, lucrative market for drugs, large military bases (gang influence). Gangster is role model figure.
Issue: Four Day Delay in Public Release Planned, yes or no and why
Yes,
Why: Public impact on fair attendance, Needed contact with Anchorage Gang task force in how to handle situation.
Issue: Age of individuals involved, under 18? Number of participants
No, many were over 18 including military individuals.
Participants were more like 40 to 50, may have been only 20 ring leaders.
Issue: Who responded and why
Fair Security; Called in backup did there job.
Local FPD; was on site at fairgrounds, Called in backup not trained to handle large confrontations (gangs) did there job.
State Police; Responded to call for backup did there job.
Military Police; Responded to call to deal with military members involved in incident.
Having recently lived in Anchorage I have seen first hand that no matter what the citizen or law enforcement officer attempts to do to curtail the gang problem it will fail. Why?
It is really simple, unless the judicial system of our country is changed to stop the revolving door policy regarding gang members it will not stop. So fix the judicial system and you will fix the gang problem along with making individuals responsible for there own actions. Any one want a million dollars for spilling a cup of hot coffee in their own lap?
This is Alaska, not California. Back in the early 80's, these *&%^heads would have had more return fire than just between them. It IS the "Last Frontier", both in reality and in spirit. Alaskans have a different sense of justice than most because life is a little more precious in Alaska. If this continues, I have a feeling the next time a "running gunbattle" takes place, all the cops will find are two burned out vehicles with the bodies having quite a selection of calibers of bullets within. And no one will see a thing. So much for "gangs" in Alaska. When Alaskan spirit takes over, these punks had better move on or push up daisies. It might be "against the law" to take it in hand, but when these punks obviously don't care about others lives, why should we care about theirs? I agree, it's a reality check, a wake up call but it might not be just for the normal citizen, catch my drift?
This is not California. I know more people who have a gun under the front seat than who don't, especially after this.
Yes, I'll be sure to keep it under my seat. If some punk starts shooting near my family I will do my best to put them down.
Mayor Strle-maybe the chronic inebriate problem downtown is not the only thing that needs addressing.
How are you going to handle this one? Restrict the sales of cheap bullets in areas that have frequent shoot-outs.
I read a newspaper article from another state a week or so ago that talked about the increase in fatal gang shootings in that state. They attributed it to the fact that gang bangers had finally figured out that if you hold the gun up right instead of sideways it's easier to hit their target.
crips and bloods, that stuff is a joke in fairbanks. it won't live long. people will get fed up.
Also, it must be a Military thing. Most people in Fairbanks can't stand the way Military people act. YES they are defending out country but they are also bringing stupidity and being immature. This is not Compton or Detroit. This is FAIRBANKS ALASKA. PLEASE DO NOT RUIN IT FOR LONG TIME RESIDENTS!
Marie, I laughed so hard I snorted! Excellent observation. =]
I wish half of you knew what you were talking about. The article said there was military involved not that it was just military. I know for a fact there only two soldiers involed. U guys can't blame it on military members. I dont think thats it's right for everyone to down grade the military for two idiots. I do agree with those of you that think this gang stuff is rediculas. Because if they were in LA or ATL i'm sure they've been done. I just wish that you guys would think what your sayng before you right it... the same military you're talking about is the same military you'll be praising when the war is over. Half these people involved are teenagers of fairbanks residents.. maybe people should be asking where they're parents are.
I read a newspaper article from another state a week or so ago that talked about the increase in fatal gang shootings in that state. They attributed it to the fact that gang bangers had finally figured out that if you hold the gun up right instead of sideways it's easier to hit their target.
Now thats funny.
Marie-I think you're on to something. We're addressing this thing all wrong. We need to invite these gangbangers to the shooting range and teach them how to hit what they are shooting at. Problem will take care of itself and the rest of us won't have to dodge stray bullets.
Here's the thing - this turf is our turf and not these little creeps! Catch them and hang them out to dry to do hard time in the Arizona desert, whether they are military or not. Chimpanzee Bush has gotten our military into the position of being forced to allow low-lives into the military to go fight his war to enrich his buddies but its up to us to mandate a no-tolerance position for this bullcrap here in Fairbanks, Alaska. This is a great place to raise kids and we have to protect it and our kids.
Realest,
I agree with you! I know of several awesome, upstanding military families and young people in our community. Please don't lump them altogether.
I have lived in town for more than 20 years and the Bloods & Cripps have been around since then...and probably before. Don't be too quick to blame the military...my strong suspicion is they aren't a part of this. It's just good old Fairbanks, circa 2008. I feel sorry for these kids...they have no idea what they are starting here. Shoot first and ask questions later will become an unfortunate reality.
Distant Thunder - you are out of your mind! The Post Commander nor the leadership can know what every soldier does 24 hours a day. If the soldiers aren't in the field a bunch go home (off post) at night. Do you have some way to track people you work with 24/7? "These guys have way too much time on their hands" - how in the world do you know? Are you in any of those units? Do you work with them? Get off your high horse! Nobody likes the things that happened.
There are punks and rotten people everywhere. I'm sorry to see that it come to Fairbanks. Maybe I have been blind, but I just didn't see it this bad 13 years ago and was the reason we decided to raise our kids here. I've heard there have been problems down on South Cushman but it has all been second hand. With all the articles I've seen about that street, I ensure I and my family stay clear unless we really have to. I'm sure that if it is soldiers on Ft. Wainwright, the leadership is looking, and looking hard. I'm also relatively certain that the city officials as well as law enforcement are working with the leadership on the post if they believe some of those jerks are there. The one thing I do believe is that Fairbanks will work hard to get control of it. Too many good people in this great city to let this continue.
flash - rumble - whatever it is you say.
I agree it was more than likely military punks. Yes the military is taking in trash. Want to solve the problem? Want to teach ole GW a lesson? Man up and join the fight. Rather than solving the World's problems from your keyboard, go see the recruiter. If you sign up we won't have to take in this garbage.
akracefan- i hope ur right about fairbanks officials doing what they can... because from my experience they dont. They were giving names on who people thought were involved and didn't do anything. I myself was jumped a couple years ago, gave them the peoples address and names and nothing was done. I agree with the person that says cops are affraid of people with guns. They're so set on getting the main person and not the little people doing his work. I say lock them all up. But that's my opinion. The sad thing is these guys will probably be let out on bail on monday and another incident will accure. I personally never thought id see the day here in fairbanks when i have to worry about going out to get gas and have the possibility of being shot at. This town is small and everyone knows everyone. Business and all... i think that if the detectives really wanted to they could catch all these wanna bes.
AKLOWN - I did over 23 years active duty and still working with the military after I retired. I'm assuming from your post that you have Manned Up? A great majority of the people here in Fairbanks are active or retired military.
Forgot to add that while I did my time in the service, once we came here in '92, we knew this was the place for us. I love this city and the people in it. Way worse places to live, that is for sure but I truly do hope that this is solved or at least the creeps that did this are caught quickly.
Unacceptable. I was raised here, as was my Mom. I stay here, in Fairbanks, AK to avoid this kind of BS. I think it's time that we, as a community, stand up and say ENOUGH! It is unacceptable and won't be tolerated. If anything were to happen to my child, or my loved-ones because of this idiotic behaviour, the "gang member(s)" better hide....
I'd suggest everyone of legal age get themselves a gun - you know darn well the criminals are carrying and will always carry. Let's make an even playing field. I know that I'll continue to carry.
I think its pretty odd that people are so sick of the violence and their solution is to have everyone have a gun and shoot back... thats sounds like a great plan. (sarcasim) Two wrongs dont make it right. I could only imagine what the streets would be like if people took things into their own hands. how about we do something about these so called troopers... who say in the article that they know who these people are... and yet nothing is done.
Those people who think we just have gang "wannabe's" are sadly mistaken. Gang activity is continuing to grow in Fairbanks and it's obviously getting bad.
wow! that is something i thought i didn't have to worry about when driving to work... a rolling gun battle between two gangs fighting over territory in which to sell their drugs. i knew i had to worry about moose on the highway or ice or just bad drivers, but this? no way!? think again, eh?
the problem with the armed alaskans is that alaskans tend to be trained in target shooting or hunting wildlife. many don't have any experience using the weapon when the target is shooting back at you. i really don't think armed alaskans getting involved is a good idea unless you are just defending yourself and there is no other alternative. usually these guys are just interested in shooting at each other.
if this keeps up there are going to many innocents deaths. we need to stop this now. if the police can't stop them then maybe we need to stop paying for their sorry butts and bring in some who can. if the police won't shut down the drug houses maybe we need to. and most of all, we need not to forget about this incident and really insist the people who are paid to do something about this does it. i fear mr. gdogg may be right. the police are just afraid of these people. we may need a tougher breed of cop.
Why waste all of our jail space on a bunch of losers? I certainly don't want my tax dollars going to pay for three meals a day, a hot shower, and recreational time. If these gang members are all so tought and "bad", send them out to a remote spot in our Last Frontier and let them kill each other off over the "turf" out there. Its time these thugs are erradicated from our society.
akchick... you're obviously from here if you think these people are hard. LOL. Yeah its getting worse... doesnt mean that they aren't wannabes.. it means that people like you fill their head up to make them think they're really about something. Half these dudes switch between gangs.. i know plenty of them so i know. I'm also from Georgia and KNOW if these gangs were about something someone would have definally been shot already. Switching gangs is cause for death down in the lower 48... here in fairbanks... u just get shot at. They're little boys that are obviously bored with life. Turf??? haha.. it takes 10 minutes to get from one end of fairbanks to the next... this is stupid
Ha, ha GDogg...thanks for the laugh. Who wouldn't be afraid of people with guns? Especially with the morons we have running around these days. Only difference is, that while tough people like yourself is running in the other direction when the action really starts, the officers are the ones running in the direction of the danger to protect people they don't even know. I have a lot of respect for the men and women in law enforcement...they deal with more tough and scary situations each day then you will probably ever do in your life.
I have worked with young people from various local schools as well as young people from both Wainwright and Eielson. It saddens me, but in too many cases we as a country have raised a number of pathetic losers who think wearing their pants around their knees and clutching a gun in their hands is all it takes to be a man or a woman.
Sadly, I don't believe this is simply a military problem. I've met far too many little idiots who grew up locally. We need more police, more troopers, and most of all, more parents who get involved with their little boys and little girls (no way will I call them Men or Women). But when the parents endorse this sort of lifestyle their little cretins are doomed.
Listen to the music your kid listens to. Look at the way your kid dresses when he leaves the house. There's an old saying: Show me who you run with and I'll show you who you are. PARENTS, WAKE UP!
I have to agree with realist. Responding to violence with violence is not the answer.
And as a mother of children, the last place I want to have a gun is in my car, where it is not secure. Kids play in cars, kids leave stuff in cars and run back out to get it. And if I'm driving with kids in my car, I don't need to be worrying about shooting someone.
So all of you who advocate carrying in your car, and presumably using that gun, do you also approve of driving while talking on a cell phone? Because I can't imagine it would be any safer to drive while shooting at any target, moving or not.
Joe - Well spoken! I believe you hit the nail on the head.
I guess I've gotten a little lazy about packing my gun with me. I see now its time to make sure I have it with me. This just reinforces the reason that we no longer need our concealed carry permits. Sooner or later these idiots will take action in the wrong place and we won't have to worry about them anymore...
"Gun control is putting two bullets thru the same hole".
Ted Nugent
Oh yeah, don't forget your back up clips.
The army has changed over the past several years. It is a shame that they are taking anything that can walk and talk.
I owned a business (Restaurant/bar) and watched the difference in the individuals who were in my business two years ago, as opposed to those of the past 8 months.
Two years ago most of them would chastise anyone who cussed in my presence. (my virgin ears of course) I hugged each one of those folks goodbye when they left for Iraq. And believe me they were and are good people, as are 90% of the military family. It is a shame all get black eyes because of the minority who are bad. And yes Folks let's place the blame where it belongs. George W. Bush and company.
I will never forget the young man who sat speaking to a young lady next to him telling her of his brother who was in a Ca. Jail for murder. Stupid me, I often question the justice in our court system. I asked "was he guilty", expecting of course to have him deny and say his brother was a great guy who would not hurt anyone and of course was railroaded, (as I said stupid me) He replied "I don't know. He was dumb to get caught". He then commenced to tell us all about how he went around beating people up, robbing, burglary. The young lady next to him said "uh, well I gotta get back to work". She had just left work.
And, all these young ladies rushing off to marry these young men who are marching off to war, with little or no knowledge of backgrounds. One such young lady (who is very close to me did just that), she was more black and blue at the end of 60 days then she had been in her entire life. This wonderful fighter for our country squeezed her pet hamster until poop came out it's behind. He told her after marriage he had once blacked out, and beat a woman almost to death. She also learned of two kids her forgot to mention back home. It goes on and on. When she called the cops during a physical altercation guess who went to jail. you got it, she did. His buddy was a witness.
Yes and I am an old lady with a gun. But I tell you what, shooting starts and this old lady is going to run as fast as these little old legs will carry me, and hope one of you guys (nice ones) will have your guns and keep them occupied til my little old legs get me GONE
I remember growing up as a teen 30+ years ago in small town america where the kids that got in trouble with the law were given an option of doing time in jail or the Army. When I joined the AF I also saw this first hand. Even though 99.9% of all military folks are normal law abiding citizens, we do have a few with "criminal Records" that have not changed thier ways in the services. That is not due to Bush or the Iraq war it's just representative of our citizens. As stated I bet there are military involved but that local Fairbanks kids are just as guilty. Lets not throw stones at the military while living in a glass house. However, if I get shot at I'll shoot back!
Wow go out of town for a few weeks and man all hell breaks loose. You know stuff like this happens every year at the fair but it usually ends then. I guess we will have to wait till winter and lets see who wants to fight over who's corner it is at 40 below. Ft. WW brings with it people who think they are in the lower forty eight until its cold then they don't look so big and bad not easy to run in bunny boots a parka and 5 layers of clothes.
It goes to show that not all the military boys in this town are as lily white as some of y'all like to think. Could it have anything to do with the Army and Marine Corps lowering its standards to recruit members?
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time to put the gun in the jeep
SlyArcticFox, if you think the military is bad try walking the halls of Lathrop.
Two groups of people get the blame for all the problems in Fairbanks. Military and Natives. It's still early in the thread though, those idiots will be commenting in the morning. Looking forward to it.
I'm glad no one got hurt.
I wish the news miner would report on just how many gun fights and shootings that there have been in Fairbanks just in the last month. I think you will find that it is in double digits, yet this is the first that we here about it?
Either FPD is keeping the lid on this behavior pretty well or DNM is missing out on the news. But hey, what has Angenlia Jolie done with her kids today, thats important too.
"Responding to violence with violence is not the answer."??????????
Should we try to ask them about their childhood while the bullets fly at our families? If faced with getting shot or a family getting injured, absolutely the answer is to respond with violence. Well aimed violence.
However, in the case of morons speeding around town winging bullets, being armed yourself may not be useful. But it seems ludicrous not to be prepared to defend you and yours when this kind of garbage is going on.
Leave it to the liberals to blame this on Bush! This is a direct result of the liberal mindset! Not President Bush. We have allowed our culture to transform into a veritable cesspool of humanity. No one is held accountable for their actions by the legal system or the citizens of this country. After all, if we throw them in jail what will happen to their self esteem?
Maybe the answer is to continue to fight over police officer benfit packages and continue to reduce officer pay and maybe even officer numbers. That should help! Excuse the sarcasm, but how surprised can we be?
wow...akatrouble...just wow.
aklown,it's not that the military or natives get all the blame it's just that when those groups are brought up in an incedent it gets blown out of porportion and remembered longer.
More police will not solve the problem. But it may increase the profits at the local bagel shop. The military is the root of this like it or not.
Be prepared to take care of yourselves like Alaskans always have and try not to waste your time dialing 911.
Pat
Upon reading this article I am glad I was not on college road at the time as my truck was full of kids. I was in that part of town up until 2pm. So I guess I was lucky this time but what about next time?
I agree we need to do something about this violence that is taking place in out community.
This makes me angry.
My wife and kids take that route. Unfortunately they will most likely get Alaskan Justice: the most liberal judges I have ever seen. Take that monster Brian Gailbraith for example who slit that young mental health worker's throat last year, the Fairbanks Superior Court Judge Robert Downes was all but going to release him until the DA stepped in and requested the case be taken from him. Do you want have more security then remember that judges name and repeat it to others and vote against him when his name comes up on the ballots. Having a gun can defend you but you do have to make it secure from children which means a commitment to practicing with it until safely using it becomes second nature, carrying it in a holster designed to resist another snatching it from you, remembering to secure it in a safe box and so on. Having a hand gun in the situation that Mr. Dave Throop found himself in would not have helped since he was not being pursued or targeted and it came as a total surprise.
Do you want a safer Alaska? Get to know your judges records.
Just publish the names & addresses of the suspects. Alaska will sort the rest out...
the police know all that info setec why aint the troopers doin anything
Hmmmm. Those of you who continue to say things as ridiculously ignorant as "The military is the root of this like it or not" need to re-read the article. After that, take time to understand your bias. After that, find some reality. Sure there are bad folk in the military - it would be stupid to suggest otherwise. But to honestly believe that the military is the root of all nasty-doings in our town places you in a fantasy land and makes you a little too blind to be taken seriously.
In fact, you may be so busy looking for and blaming the "threat" that comes wearing camos that you completely miss the threat next to you in Carhartts.
I am actually really nervous now, I would die if something happened to my kids.
We need more police, I used to complain about not having enough cops for traffic violations!
Okay! I am awake.
What can a mom like me do?
AKJAK - First of all, Fairbanks is a great place to raise kids? Not seeing it. I grew up in North Las Vegas and Fairbanks is just as ghetto as Vegas was, just on a smaller scale. You have wannabe gang members everywhere, whether it is a small city in Alaska or a small town in Iowa. Quit blaming the President on the problems of your city. I know for a fact that Fairbanks has had a ghetto wannabe gang problem long before the military ghetto gang members added their two cents. Quit whining about the President and war...it's getting old.
Oh yeah, someone said there were no bad parts of Fairbanks? Ever walked down 2 Street or Cushman Avenue? Ugh... Drunk people passed out and/or begging for money because they are lazy, youngsters selling drugs, nasty crack hookers... Ugly...
I remember about 6-7 yrs. ago that a gang was coming into Fairbanks. (someone had tipped the cops) Then "someone" tipped a parent. There were about 50-80 parents at the airport with signs saying " Go Home Crips" Go home Bloods" Go Home Peeps" "Not in OUR town" .. They were serious!! We drove about 35 of them out of town just by hanging out around them! We made their lives MISERABLE for about 5 days!!!
COME ON ALASKA!!!! WAKE UP!!
We still have the power! Most of these "gang" members are kids from your hood. Mine too. Find them! Point them out! Follow them! Let them know that you know who they are!
Some respond to kindness-- others to tough love! Some need to to be pushed out!
Come on Fairbanks---- Don't quit now!!
Peace BAAAA
OK-- So I don't have all of the answers. But HEY-- gotta start somewhere.
I've been involved with alot of these kids and punks and they've got be set straight!
Fear is a great motivator for both sides. Fear of being killed or shot at and a fear of being found out!
But for HEAVENS SAKE don't just sit there if you know something! Call the police, call your priest, heck-- call your mother!!!
Anything is better than nothing.. Don't live to the phrase "If only..."
Peace BAAAAA
All these idiots are MTV gangsters. Move to Cali or Washington where the real deal is at.....Wake up, you're in Fairbanks, What are ya'll claiming, College crips or Fairground bloods....or is it Safeway Parking lot bloods against the Carlson center crips. Pllleeeeaaaaaasssseeee you should be ashamed of trying to be a gangmember in Fairbanks Alaska....This is the Northpole not the Southpole...LOL...Sit down wannabes
For those of you who want to blame the the military for gang presnces.. for those who says ship the military out of here need to wake up. Gangs were here before us and they will be here after we ship out. Stop putting blame on 'the military' and put it on the individuals themselves.
The police never do anything when a 'gang' is involved. They always try to blame someone else and ask the gang members to point fingers at the victims. Yes we have had punk gang wannabes for many years and the police have just let them go. Some people believe it is for job security. I don't know why but it is widely known that 'gangs' get a free pass from the police so now they are getting more aggresive because they know nothing will happen. I would bet that no one gets arrested.
Knock it off with this "military" thing! Gangs are gangs!
Our USA military is a fighting machine--not a wanna-be gangsta star! They want to be know for freedom and peace not "Guess who I popped yesterday?"
Idiots are everywhere ( said it before and I'll say it again!) Don't lump my brother, father, uncles, cousins or family into your idea of "Military". Not a one of them was 'sta crap.!
Peace
Gang violence is a societal disease.
As a community, we have options. Address the symptoms of the disease, or address its causes. Either one, or both.
Having more law enforcement on the streets, or more residents packing their own fire power is a solution that addresses only the symptom of the disease.
Eradicating the disease forever from our community, from any community requires that we address the cause.
In order to address the cause . . .
In order to understand why this is happening to begin with, you *must* put yourself in the shoes of a gang banger. And you *must* understand what it is that gang bangers find attractive about being members of a gang.
Hi, my name is gangbanger. I am alone in this world. My family is all shot to hell. I belong to no group. Or, the group I belong with has no power, I feel no protection from belonging to the group into which I was born. Or, I feel no connection, spiritually, emotionally, to the group into which I was born.
I want to feel like I really belong. To someone, to something. It's all I want, to belong . . .
If you want to eradicate gang violence, then you have to address the motivations of why people *choose* to get involved in gangs to begin with.
In no way, is this a simple task. The solution can be formulated easily enough. Realizing, enacting, that solution is a whole 'nother bag of cookies altogether.
In my understanding of gang culture, the *primary* motivation for a person to become part of a gang is a sense of "belonging."
Like it or not, we human beings are social creatures. And we're creative enough to form our own societies *if* the society into which we're born is somehow lacking in terms of our expectations.
Gangs exist because the people who belong to them have found, in them, a real solution to a real want they have . . . the need to belong, the need to be accepted by a larger group.
We *cannot* eradicate from any member of the human species the need to belong. But we *can* offer more options, as a species, as a society.
If we want to eradicate gangs, and the subsequent gang violence, from our community, we'll simply have to come up with additional options for the young people in our community.
Gangs exist because they fulfill a *real* need for some of us. If you want to get rid of gangs, then find another way of fulfilling that need.
what do peop,e think we are in alaska so we are immune to all this.. it starts with everyone doing there part you see something you report it gang acitivity or any other crime.. people are all out to give there opinions but how many or if any of you would ever repirt seiing gang activity or just go back to your tvs and view it as this is not my problem... saying how big of gun you have or carrying more bullets just shows your ignorance to the big issue..GET REAL WOULD YOU PULL YOUR GUN OUT AND FIRE IT WHILE DRIVING ARE YOU THAT ACCURATE THAT YOU WOULD NOT HIT AN INNOCENT DRIVER OR PEDESTRIAN...military is not immune to gangs either if drugs can be found on base why would a gang not be found there,,, they do not have to steal guns they have them already.. afew years ago there was a shooting in the parking lot at a bar off of cushman and guess what it was someone in the military and this just shows military is no better then me or you wwe just have different occupations.... BLOODS CRIPS WHO CARES IF NO ONE CARED THEN THEY WOULD NOT BE GANGS... agree with me or dont i could care less...
daisies-- "i could care less' ? I for one think you care alot. Thank you for caring at all. If only one person cares at all-- it matters. thank you!
Peace
So, ladynyc - - - in a nutshell...
We can begin by blaming it once again on the parents....or lack thereof.
A common thread for most sad stories we read about in the paper (example John Hartmann, etc) - parents and relatives were non-existent, turned a blind eye or were actually involved right along with the bad behavior of the kids involved
Until people stop making excuses and start parenting - this type of thing will remain - and probably get worse since it will soon be passed down through the generation of hoodlums we are creating
Continue to parent based on emotion and keep trying to be your kids best friend..instead of his/her 'parent' - and the fruits of your labor will end up a sad headline in our hometown newspaper - - or wandering the alleyways of S. Cushman with no hope and no future...
blame the city...blame the schools...blame the society - - but don't forget - it all starts at home. Its time for all of us to take a good look in the mirror and admit that we could do better, both as parents and as a society watching out for each other.
In the immortal words of Mr T - 'I pity the fool' who starts a gunfight around me or any of my friends who carry. When I pull the trigger I am holding my weapon correctly, I am proven under fire, and I don't miss my target.
Hopefully we can nip this in the bud before it comes to that....
Anybody remember the bikers versus the miners in healy. I seem to remember the miners came out ahead, they did not win, because there were injuries on both sides. And I believe one death. But the point is the gangs can't take over Alaskans.
I understand what people are saying when they say that if they want to have shootouts, deploy them and let them shoot the bad guys. But, as I read that, I sit here and think that there are husbands, fathers, sons & grandsons that are deployed and here these gang members are, supposedly on the same "side" as the other soldiers and they're going to deploy soon with our loved ones. If they were having a shootout amongst each other on College Road and putting many innocent people in the middle of their gunfire then what's going to stop them from doing it when they're away at war and they're surrounded by their fellow soldiers who were unlucky enough to get these gang members in their unit.
There was a two month old baby in the middle of all this. To them, they're fighting a war of their own and the Crips & Bloods are two of the most dangerous gangs out there. It's extremely scary and I agree that the post commander needs to step in here and do something about it but like a lot of things in the military, the higher ups just brush it off like it's not a big deal. Our soldiers are deploying next month and they should feel that they can trust the soldiers around them. They have enough enemies to worry about in Iraq rather than wonder if the guy standing beside them is going to turn his back on them. And, I don't know about you but this would make me feel extremely uneasy knowing my husband might get stuck in the middle of these gang's gunfights.
As a military wife it really upsets me that everyone is so quick to blame the military for this incident. Isn't this the same military that defends your behind time after time? Oh, I'm sorry I know that making them look like bad guys makes you look more heroic.. right? There are bad seeds everywhere and yes the army needs to weed them out ASAP.
And the kids, where are the parents?? Obviously not parenting!
"Gangs" here in Fairbanks aren't as bad as the lower 48...they are just poser kids who are trying to prove themselves, trying to live the "dream" of mainstream rap videos, planning on being rap artists. I mean what can they rap about....snow, the fair, driving on ice, moose, fish?!HAHA! They are just misguided punks who need some serious punishment...by their parents! So don't even begin to deface our serviceMEN & women for these childish boys.
You've got to be kidding me?!?!?!? Soldiers who are supposed to be DEFENDING OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS have VIOLATED those very same rights?!?!?
I say put up the border to Alaska - if you can pass a comprehensive background check - then sure, come and have a PEACEFUL and CIVILIZED life. Adapt to Alaska and leave your baggage at the door - if it's not appealing to you, then STAY OUT!
If I was caught up in this mess and my 7 month old daughter was in the back seat.. some douche bag wanna be's WILL get something in return. I used to live in the Los Angeles area and was sickened by the constant violence. California is so anal about letting honest citizens arm themselves. I am so glad that Alaska at least has it right. We can arm ourselves and protect our families from these pieces of S%$#. Glad to hear no one got hurt.. Kudo's to our police department...
my two cents worth..
OKAY SOMEONE HELP ME OUT WITH THIS...IF AN ANIMAL IS CONSIDERED A DANGER TO HUMANS, WELL WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT. NOW HUMANS BEING A DANGER TO HUMANS, NOTHING HAPPENS OR THEY GO TO THE BEST HOTEL IN THE WORLD FOR FREE, GET THE BEST HEALTHCARE GOING, GET FOOD AND CLOTHING, EDUCATION, ENTERTAINMENT, HEAT IN THE WINTER, A/C IN THE SUMMER, GET TO HAVE VISITORS, PAY NO TAXES! IS IT ME OR IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS??
If there are any of these guys that are in the military why in the hell are they not in Levenworth awaiting a court marshal? This has happened in recent weeks at the front gate of Ft WW? The front gate? Why didnt that make the paper? Articles like this need names, photos and commanding officers direct phone line number.
As for the rest of the wanna be's who live here and have joined their bandwagon of people who cant stand on their own so they hide together behind a bunch of guns acting tough, there is a lot of high water marks after the flood, may be we should go fishing and talk about the woes of the world....
Lock down the damn base and dont let any of those bastards off of the base ever. Put them in jail ARMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what are you waiting for? Get these dirtbags out of our state!!!!!!!
Drove by just after it happened. It was the State Troopers at the crime scene. College road is the dividing line between the city and the borough. Guess the State Troopers got called on this one.
If I remember right several of the gang shootings in the past have had military personnel involved. Way back,Wainwright had a history of being used as a displinary assignment. Hopefully this is not the case again. There are always a few bad apples no matter where. I am sure the Base Commander will deal with this. It was quite after the last few incidents that involved military men in gang based activities. One of the local bars was put off limits and eventually closed.
I am sure I am going to get blasted for this, but I am compelled to chime in.
I don't want to point fingers at any one group or reason..the reasons are plentiful and plenty of BLAME to go around for sure.
As far as Military Personnel Involvement, I do not doubt it for one minute. I have to throw in the Faith Card at some point along with a DEMAND for action taken on FTW for any involvement. The idea of Soldier's being in GANGS disgusts me...Isn't the army a good enough gang to belong to?
Youth Involvement?....What do the masses consider a Youth these days? Sorry, you point a gun in my or my family's direction while in the throws of a turf war and you are SCUM.....young or middle aged.
What would it take and how much would it benefit to open Youth Activity Centers in two separate parts of town? Or would that only open up more opportunity for these Gang Members to recruit? I really have no idea how gangs work. All one ever sees are the after action reports that leave a person feeling threatened and scared to take the kids for Ice Cream cones in town.
Is one reason for gang involvement truthfully Not having anything better to do? The Military folks I know are busy training in and out of the state getting ready to deploy.. Are the majority/minority of Soldiers that bored?
Where do the teenagers hang out and shoot the bull here in Fairbanks? School is about to start...are they really that bored?
I get so involved in my own family's events and life lessons that before I know it, I am left hanging in the breeze trying to catch up on Current Events/trends...Until I see an article with responses such as these.
Speaking for myself only...this was one of those Wake Up Calls.
You Have My Attention.....What are some Solutions?
the motivation for them getting into gangs? they had a bad childhood? they don't feel connected to any other group? wah wah wah.... i'm shedding a torrent of tears here. their motivation for being in gangs is making a lot of easy money so they can buy a fancy car, get their downtrodden ego stroked, and get lots of girlfriends and father several children by as many different women as possible. how does this lifestyle become possible? because there is a percentage of the population that have become addicted to drugs and are going to buy it no matter what so as to keep funding these punks lifestyle. we've all had it rough in one way or another. i grew up in a broken household. we were very impoverished as dad decided it would be better to live canada than in the usa and not pay any support to mom whatsoever. when i was young we moved from the country to the big city. i suffered from some serious culture shock and didn't connect with the big city kids. i still have never felt the need to get into a group of people that ruins other peoples lives (or just kill them) for my own benefit. the great majority of us out here in the real world haven't had a perfect life. we all have to suck it up and bear our own crosses and enjoy life as much as possible without running roughshod over other peoples lives in the community. this isn't LA or baltimore. these kids aren't stuck in a ghetto. someone living on 27th has as much opportunity as anyone else in any other part of town. there may still be some racism out there, but no where near enough to justify this crap. face it, these are just bad people. they don't need to be socially redirected. they don't need to be reconnected to some other group. they need to be locked up. they don't want to be reconnected elsewhere or redirected. don't build a community center or some nonsense. they don't want that, they want to be like their heros in the rap videos and get the fancy cars and have all the girls and be that big fish in the very very little pond. i'm not going to coddle these punks with expensive and totally useless social programs. they have just decided that it is more important that their egos get stroked and their wallets lined with the pain and misery of all those around them. and those who buy the drugs that fund this lifestyle? you're every bit as bad as these punks are..... no... worse!
I know if my family was shot at intentionally or not I would hunt them down and take care of business with extreme prejudice! Gang bastards beware, you are going to be in grave peril very soon! Leave and don't come back to this great state. from an ex sniper
Could this incident be a carry over from the 'gang fight' at the fair this past week?
you will sooner or later shoot at the wrong person or people and Alaskans will not tolerate your nasty behavior. that is what i meant by my last statement. you as gang members are pathetic sheep following the herd of losers destined to die sooner rather than later, for the best of all Alaskans. you pathetic cowards!
I work right by there and am glad I was gone by then.
After reading this I thought I was back in Cleveland again.
Are these children begging for attention by doing this?? Well they sure are getting a lot of attention and not good kind either.
Guess maybe they need to step up the patrols around that area for a while.
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So what happened to the seven people taken in for questioning?
Perhaps the State Police should speak with Realest since this individual knows who these gang members are. The bottom line isn't whether they are wanna bees or are the real thing. The bottom line IS they will kill someone, most likely an innocent bystander. Fairbanks has had inklings of gang problems for a few decades now. It just happens as the standards of living up here increase, it is easier to make it through a cold winter so we see more of these people staying. Living in Fairbanks anymore is not much different than living in any lower 48 city. A little more ice fog, but when you have plug ins, running water, city utilities, state, city plows, more reliable, warmer vehicles etc.. there is really not much difference. Hence, as we become like any other place, we have to take the good with the bad. Hells Angels tried to make a presence here a while back and they did. Until they were cracked by an undercover. Gangs are always looking for new turf to control. Now, just go to Delta Junction and watch the Russian Mafia in action...
as i see it there is enough blame to go around. if previous incidents of gangmembers have been happening,ie, gun battles why was it not reported by the news minor? that being said i will start packing when i come to town on a steady basis and am hereby stating if someone starts firing a weapon at me or family will feel free to return. first will go make sure i can hit what i aim at. that being said i am with the above posters who are getting tired of watching the court system giving out a slap for major crimes or plea barganing. we need to go back to the blue ticket. also if any of the military are involved the mayor needs to visit the base commander and forcefuly make the point that behavior is not tolerated in alaska and if base commander can not control his troops take the complaint up the chain of command and put the base commander on notice. i do not feel sorry for gang members and would like to see them banished to the lower 48
I'm sure the good soldiers on base know who those clowns are. And they will be dealt with. As for the local thugs....they are our own sweet little darlings. Maybe if they were driving drunk or had a tail light out the police might have more incentive to get them off the street. Surely we don't have enough resources to combat DUI and Gang Violence.
THE MILITARY MADE US CLEAN UP SECOND AVENUE.
NOW IT IS TIME FOR THEM TO CLEAN THEMSELVES UP -PRONTO.
IF THEY SAY THEY KNOW WHO IS TO BLAME
THEN IT IS TIME FOR THE TOP SERGEANTS AND COMMANDERS TO DO SOMETHING.
IF THE FPD KNOWS, THEN REFER THEM TO THE DA. IF THEY DON'T KNOW, THEN DON'T SAY THEY DO.
HOW COME THE FAIRBANKS MEDIA HASN'T SAID ANYTHING ABOUT 'ALL THE PRIOR ACTIVITY' UNTIL NOW?
FINALLY WHERE ARE OUR POLITICIANS WHO OUGHT TO BE WRITING THIS LETTER?
JUST DRIVE AROUND TOWN AT 2AM AND WATCH THE SHOW.
AND WHO ARE THESE RUSSIANS WHO SUDDENLY BEGAN COLONIZING DELTA AFTER THE COLD WAR?
Good God - I never thought Fairbanks would turn into such a cesspool of hatred towards the military.
What did you anti-military folks have to say when the UAF athlete was busted for drugs? Was that the fault of the military, too?
This kind of behavior is NOT the fault of the military. I've SEEN how some of your "little darlings" act - if they aren't banging, they desperately want to be.
Not all kids are little thugs, certainly, but one only has to walk around town a bit to see the "gangsta" look thriving. Make your kid pull his damned pants up.
And I volunteered in an elementary school a few years ago - I was floored at the behavior of the majority of those kids. Teachers should be getting combat pay.
If you really want to address the problem, take at look at our society and what we are teaching our children. They have NO respect, no sense of responsibility and a massive sense of entitlement.
How is THAT the fault of the military?
When, and they will, the cops catch these poor misguided, oppressed morons they need long prison terms to correct their behavior. The military criminals will hopefully be reassigned to prison at Ft. Levenworth where 'time at hard labor' means time at HARD LABOR. They should be isolated from society for many years.
To try to blame the President of The United States for this is really an immature and hateful comment. To call our President a chimpanzee is a very childlike gesture.
Just read this article - with 108 comments I looked at a couple of them and see that most are in an emotional reactionary nature, so to those of you who are criticizing others for 'stupid' comments, try to keep that in mind. People say strange things when they're in shock.
I am dismayed that this is the third gun-battle in recent weeks, but the first time most of us have heard about it. Though it does explain the possible cause for the sound of police sirens, most nights for several months around my nearby neighborhoods.
I'm not surprised to read that some of the suspected gang members are military, I always thought it was common knowledge that many gang members join the military - that's how some of them are so well trained and can train other members.
Regarding how long Fairbanks has had gang presence... I was born here, and as I recall, we've always had either a small mafia presence, or a gang. Someone's has to manage the drugs and prostitution. Most of the time though, they've had the good sense to keep it quiet.
I don't have an immediate answer to this particular problem, but I will offer this to my fellow community readers - I spend a lot of time out of my house, walking and biking around. Yes the news is unnerving, but I'm not about to go hiding in my little home for anyone who thinks they can bully residents off the streets. Let's all watch out for each other, if you see something wrong - report it. If you hear a cry for help, look out the window to see what it is, and call 911.
-RK
I am really surprised, shocked, amazed, and proud. After reading all the comments responding to this incident, I say several good points. I grew up here and spent my life here, now raising a child of my own here. The simple fact that we are says the words "crips and bloods" is shocking. To assume they are now within city limits, there were things I only heard of when I was a kid. a "big city" thing. NEVER would I have thought I'd be reading this in my own local paper.
Early on in the comments, someone stated the perfect question to the mayor. What are our elected offcials going to do about this? Get more police? Why DID some poor soul have to post a huge sign on the telephone pole for attention? I saw his sign. I GREW UP in that neighborhood! Are you telling me, my old stomping grounds, where I once had a paper route, and sold girl scout cookies, and mowed laws, has gotten SO bad, the public has to plea THAT loudly, and stimm nothing is done for him? WOW!
I have always beleived in my right to carry a gun, it is one of my rights as an AMERICAN! It is unfortunate I have to think about this of protection beyond my own home. Its also unfortunate I can't let my daughter ride her bike and have comfort knowing shes not going to get caught in crossfire. I don't remember my parents worrying about it the way parents do these days and times.
Another comment I say and liked was Parents, WAKE UP! These are what our younger kids see...Monkey see, Monkey do. Lets become MORE involved in our kids lives and CHANGE the future generations of Fairbanks.
Thank God no one was hurt during this unfortunate incident.
Military involved? That can't be. I think I remember recently Jerry Cleworth and other city council members saying military population should not be counted as part of the city. They have their own police force and have no impact on city resources.
The military is not the problem in this case. EVERY group of people have a few bad apples mixed in. The military members are out there protecting all you bloggers rights to say your peace. Instead of placing blame, it would be nice for everyone to start thinking about what they can do to improve their community. Maybe carrying a gun is your solution, hopefully it can go beyond that.
What makes me sad is the DNM reports the news it wants to..This trash is being glorified and yes it is a community problem..but look at what should have been on the front page. I found this on Fox News
FAIRBANKS, Alaska — Nellie Miller, a North Pole woman known for decades as "Mrs. Santa Claus," has died.
Miller died Sunday at a residential care home as a result of a stroke. She was 91.
In 1952, Miller and her late husband, Con, founded the Santa Claus House, a Christmas theme store open year round in North Pole. The business has remained in the family.
Miller served on the town's school board before the Fairbanks North Star Borough was created and was town magistrate in the 1960s.
She also was active in Republican politics.
Her son Mike Miller, a former lawmaker, says his parents involvement in local issues influenced his and his late brother Terry Miller's interest in holding public office.
"Between mom and dad, they gave us a lot of grounding and our devotion to public service came from them. Had it not been for them, we would not have understood the importance of public service," said Mike Miller, who served as Commissioner of Administration under former Alaska Gov. Frank Murkowski.
Nellie Miller, one of 15 children, was born and raised in Idaho Springs, Colo.
She married and left home at age 15. When she met Con Miller, she had two sons.
The couple arrived in Alaska's interior in 1950.
"They were very proud of the fact that they had $1.40 in their pocket when they arrived here," said their daughter, Merry Christmas Miller Key.
No public memorial is planned.
by sourdoughpark
I agree with no jail time for these gang members bringing hostile life threatening behavior to our society. Whether it is the legal system or someone defending their life, we need to take a lesson from Alaska's dog mushers. Lazy Dogs that won't help pull the sled forward(those that bring life threatening crime to our society/town) need to be eliminated permanently. It releives the some of the problem instantly, and allows the remaining behavior problem makers a chance to modify their behavior, before the same solution applys to themselves.
polarmark, you raise some really good points. You had what sounds like a really tough childhood. And you didn't end up in a gang. Power to you.
And I'm making a wild guess here, but I'm guessing you're closer to 40 years old than 14 years old. Things were a little different when we were kids, and the kind of world kids live in today is, in some ways, nothing like the world as we knew it when we were teens. We didn't have a significant segment of society that glamorized violence, and we didn't have industries that capitalized on the glamorization of violence. We didn't have the internet, cell phones, and ipods - in other words, we didn't have the technology that lets people stay connected 24/7 to whatever it is they wish to be connected to. We didn't have violent video games that kids could play for days on end without ever having to leave the house.
This world, today, can be scarier than heck for young people, and I'd say that their need to feel protected is very real, especially if they come from a broken home. Their need to belong is equally compelling.
A few people are just born bad. Even the very best of families, with the most nurturing of environments, can produce the occasional bad apple. But I'd say that most bad people didn't start out that way. Gang members might all be rotten to the core, but a lot of them probably weren't that way before they got involved with gangs.
However false the reality is, what gangs have to offer is protection, a sense of family/community, a system of beliefs and values. This is what makes them attractive to kids, these are some of the reasons kids join gangs, kids who are innocent and basically good before their involvement with gangs.
akguy, yes, it all starts at home. But it doesn't stop there. A lot of parents could stand to be more aware of exactly what their kids are doing, yes. But even the best of parents can't be everywhere their kids are, all the time, and gangs pretty much recruit for new members where ever kids are to be found.
Gangs are a community problem, and in order to solve this problem the community needs to be aware of the presence of gangs. Until you know specifically what signs to look for, it's very easy to miss the signs of local gang activity. Gangs mark their "turf", they have a very specific way of dressing so that they can recognize members of their own, and rival gangs. They use certain hand signals that identifies them as members of a particular gang.
If people want to get gangs out of their community, they have to recognize the presence of gangs to begin with, and have to learn how to recognize individual gang members by the way they dress, by their gestures, by their language.
If people want to get rid of gangs, period, they need to understand that it's a heck of lot easier to prevent kids from joining gangs, than it is to get them out of gangs, once they're members.
What this gets down to is there is a major drug problem that makes this area worth fighting over for these gangs. That IMO is the root of the whole problem
To DecidedtostayinAK,
Glad you liked the story about Nellie Miller of North Pole. I'd just like to point out that the story was in the Friday edition of the News-Miner and was on the front page, where, as you note, it deserved to be.
Our story was picked up by The Associated Press and distributed nationwide, which is how it ended up at FOX News, where you found it.
Here's the link to our story, which includes a couple of photographs of Mrs. Miller.
http://www.newsminer.com/news/2008/aug/1...
Hey Teenytiny, please get out of my state! Gang activity is centered around the military in Fairbanks, always has, always will. I think Wainwright, and Eielson should be quarantined to keep the soldiers and their families out of OUR turf. Oh I know the argument, "we bring so much to the community, without us Fairbanks wouldn't even have a Walmart." Well guess what, you've also brought gang violence...thanks.
See you in the ditch this winter.
Swede - "Another good reason for all of us to carry."
What a great idea! Fight guns with MORE guns! You are truly a genius Swede. NOT! Only a moron would think that way...
akguy - "I'm gonna have to start carrying a larger caliber firearm with more capacity I see....and maybe a couple extra magazines..."
Ditto - moron!
It's called "parenting". Something which this country lacks. Parenting is a root problem, so let's deal with that, shall we?
And News-Miner- when are you going to print a story with actual paragraphs and depth? This sentence by sentence crap could be written by a 6th grader. Don't your "journalists" go to school to write?
DECIDEDTOSTAY:
that was in thursday paper!
Plenty of other people have said it and thank you for doing so.... but the ENTIRE military and our Commander in Chief are not to blame for the violence in Fairbanks Alaska.
I realize that I have not lived here in Fairbanks as long as some of you out there. But I too have an opinion.
Guaranteed, at least some of the actors in these incident are active duty military. I spent 13 years in the Army. I too know what kind of scum is being let in these days. If you have read the DNM for any period of time, you too know that there are shootings outside of local drinking establishments fairly regularly. And when the investigation is over another of our local Patriotic Military members are arrested.
BUT, I do not blame the Military. I too blame the Moms and Dads, or the LACK of Moms and Dads. I, as an adult am so tired of people expecting society to raise these children.
I may not have an answer as how to stop these punks before they kill innocent people, but I do have a pretty good solution as how to never let them do it again.
Take some of our states Oil revenues and build a small community on one of our out-lying islands up around Barrow or Prudhoe Bay.
Each person found guilty by a trial of their peers, should be shipped off to these communities. Let them (the convicted) establish whatever type of Government they feel would suffice them. Would love to see the news from these communities. The Crips (D) voted 3-2 over the Bloods (R) to abolish all types of handguns under the caliber of .357.
The Bloods (R) are expected to to fight the decision tooth and nail.
(After the spring thaw, in July).
Just a thought.
Some irrational comments on here (as always)...oh yes, me as military must surely know who these thugs are. Idiotic statement (you have no clue about your military community do you?). Believe it or not, first time I and just about everyone else in OUR Alaskan community heard of this situation is this article in FDNM. It IS unsatisfactory on all accounts...both civilian and military communities.
Now, if you want your comments and thoughts about "what is the military doing on its end", we have something called ICE (Interactive Customer Evaluation). Go to the following Fort Wainwright link, scroll down to "Provost Marshal" (alphanumeric listing) and click the link...leave comment, leave your name/email or don't, etc. I already have...it is not like ANY of us are happy to hear such a situation exist. Knock yourselves out or blather on without doing anything...
http://ice.disa.mil/index.cfm?fa=service...
1.Your NOT Going to Talk a Gang member into "Being a Nice-Guy.
2.Your NOT Going to change a Gang-Member by "Telling him(Or Her) to go to counseling
3. Your NOT going to change a Gang-member by putting him (Or Her) into jail for "a short-time"
THE ONLY Way your going to get the gangs out of Fairbanks is
A. Put them in jail for a life-time. OR
B. Years Ago ( And it Still Works ) The way to end the Gangs were to find a Tall Tree and A Short Rope.
I Am NOT a "Politically Correct Person". I just Say what "Really-Works !
Looks like it's time for a new hunting season in Da Banks.....Year round open season Gang Member hunting!!!
FREEDOM with rules. Gotta love America. Way too many things wrong with this picture but I do blame the lack of parenting on a majority of issues we (America) are dealing with. The "me" mentality has destroyed our country. As for the military bringing in these idiots, I do think they (military) should get a better handle on the past of their applicants before letting them in. Yet it is not the military's fault for an individuals own personal choices.
Yes, bad people have been around as long as good people.
Mr Green -
When you are done with the rose-colored glasses...may I borrow them?
Put down the kool-aid, brother
Lady - It is the parents job to know where there kids are and who they hang out with - that would take care of most the problem...I grew up in an area that had a hell of a lot more 'real' gang activity and joining one was not an option in my household...but neither was dropping out of high school...etc etc etc
Just pay some military guy's that have come back from Iraq a bounty on these indigents. They have been doing door to door combat, drive by shootings in a hostile environment that was harsher than what these thugs are playing in Alaska.
Descriptions of these bangers need to be made public. Profiling is not a bad thing!! Just take a look at the race of these boys.........
Two problems here, cultural and law enforcement priorities. The rap culture breeds this kind of idiocy. Drugs are a profitable business as a result of government restrictions. The Troopers are focusing on DWIs and the borough only cares about regulating our tail pipes and pets. Our only hope is an armed citizenry and some hard work by the city cops.
All I can say is this didn't start till we got the Super Wal-mart. I tried to tell ya....
I question why the Lt. felt the need to include that a couple of them were military and why the DNM decided to report that fact. Why weren't the rest of their ages, races, etc. discussed. Because all I see on this board is the big "aha!" it's turned yet again into a civilian v. military. All it takes to stir things up on here is the mere mention of the military. And gives the military haters in Fairbanks yet another excuse to post their hate speech.
I think we should follow them to there shoot out ares and end this once and for all.end of problem, then innocent people wont get hurt
I just spoke with my 28 year old son, who grew up here in Fairbanks. He has known from childhood some of the "roughest" punks (locals) I've ever seen, and I'm from Chicago! There were kids in middle school (Ryan) selling guns in 1995. There's been talk of gangs here for the entire 20 years we've been here, and he has always maintained that there are no gangs, just a bunch of p$%%^ wannabes. Military thugs get stationed here and go looking for these groups,who also "go after" each other, just because that's what they're "programmed" to do. Lifestyle, and all..
Not so much a "turf" thing as chest-pounding, muscle flexing posturing. Dangerous to all, nonetheless.
What he did say that was kind of frightening, is "just wait until the MS13's get here. This town will know what a real gang is." This is a huge Salvadorian (sp?) gang that has infiltrated the gangs in the major cities outside. They just about took over the L.A. area, leaving hundreds dead. He said they are "seriously dangerous", and will be here eventually.....
Although I'm a firm believer in our right to carry firearms, I'm just not sure that issue would come into play should any of us find ourselves in the middle of a rivalry "show down"...The punks are focused on each other. Not to say that we couldn't become dead "innocent bystanders", but as far as stopping the behavior with our guns...? In this type of situation, our best weapon would be our cell phones and our willingness to open our mouths. Apparently, the groups involved in yesterday's shooting had begun their fight right in a residential neighborhood, in front of houses full of people. Maybe it could have been stopped before it got out onto College Road had someone called the cops right then. I know I would have. I do not hesitate to call them when I see anything suspicious or worrisome.
It's a community problem, and as community members, it's up to us to participate in the protection of our town. Neighborhood Watch programs are such a good thing. A "community watch" mentality is what we need, and if the FPD is unwilling to take immediate action, keep hounding them with calls and letters to the editor until they do.
Something else we should all keep in mind is that we are, bottom line, dealing with a criminal mindset. That means home break-ins, car theft, armed robbery are on the rise. Stay safe. This is the perfect time of year, as is early spring for "street crime", with the mild temps and dark nights.
Just the two cents worth of a pistol-packin' gramma.....
Just have to say that the Base Closure Committee has placed the bases on the closure list for next year. Everyone will turn out in tax paided T shirts cheering them on and everyone who wrote how bad the militarty is will be praising them to the hilt when it might effect their pocket book.
To the many men and women in the military serving at Fort Wainwright thank you for your service. The actions of a few should not reflect on the honor and decency of the many who serve their country well. Good Luck on the deployment, may you all return home to Fairbanks soon. I for one view you as valued members of this community.
Our family is set to move to the Fairbanks area in October. I try to keep tabs on what is going on in the area by reading the Newsminer if not daily, weekly. This is a scary thing to happened no matter what part of the country you are in.
I am from North Dakota and my husband is from Pennsylvania. We are very excited to move to Alaska. We hear all these wonderful things about Fairbanks and the people. I sit hear and read these comments of how the military is to blame. This scares me just as much as the gun fire. I am a proud Air Force Wife! Their are bad seeds in every bunch of people, doctors, laywers, teachers, even celebrties. Why should you take it out on a group as a whole?
I am still excited to move and see what Fairbanks has to offer. I WON'T assume that all Fairbanksans dislike military members!
Dellroy-lets not start with the race card,the pic in the writeup shows a white guy being handcuffed.
There have been way to many incedents lately that haven't been made public and should be so people are aware,had a Wal-Mart employee bring up a knife fight that happened there recently and said there was blood everywhere,guess i missed the write up on that one also.
Once again, a bunch of young folks with nothing better to do with their time take a cue from Hollywood. No doubt when the temperatures hit -45F these guys will be more reluctant to roll down the window.....
The base command and especially the NCO's need to take more interest in what their troops are doing after hours. As a retired military vet - I can assure you when the guys in your command start pulling this crap it is noticed by EVERYONE who works with them - it does not go un noticed. The base's Commanding Officer has the power of the UCMJ - it's rules of evidence and juristiction are specifically designed to handle this behavior. However, it is up to base CO to envoke it - and task his officers and NCO's to enforce it.
It is time for the community to pull together and clean the streets,and set up a web page for the so call gangs and have it listed as known gang offenders and the people got on this act should be sent to ARIZONA and keeped there,Alaska has no place for want a-be,s
I think we need more things for the youth to occupy there time.
Its a beautiful thing to have the right to bear arms and I for one can tell you that myself and many guys I know wont shoot 10-15 rounds and not hit someone. The people of Fairbanks would handle this if in fact these guys actually had a stance (Turf), but since they are just military punks and a few rough around the edges local punks theres really not much to handle. Incidents regarding these wanna be gang members and their turf happen on Ft Wainwright property too! They arent what they think they are, but nonetheless spraying bullets with little accuracy will occassionally put someone in the wrong place at the wrong time, just hope its not someone you know or love!
I don't blame the military, the president nor our police. I do blame our court system. I'm sure we will find that these gang members were in trouble before and released because at the time they were juveniles.
Well guess what they are now of age. Since Alaska is an isolated state if we find that anyone juvenile, adult, military or civilian has violated Alaskan laws not only should they serve their time but also be shown the border and booted.
Everyone else lets be aware of our surroundings and other vehicles. If we see anything out of the normal, including road rage. Get out of that area, and keep your doors locked.
It's true we are no longer the Fairbanks some of us remember. And as things get tougher the crime will be come worse. Take care of yourselves.
Newsminer, a suggestion:
Ask one of your reporters to write an article, or a series of articles about gang activity in our community.
There's a woman who works at the Fairbanks Police Dept. who is an expert on this topic. I had the privilege of attending a presentation she gave last year on gangs in Fairbanks. It was a fascinating presentation, and it's scary how easily kids can get sucked into joining gangs. I'd be happy to provide you with this woman's name in private, but won't list it here, on this open forum.
Dellroy, I completely agree with you that descriptions of these bangers need to be made public. The better we can identify gang members in our community, the better grip we'll have on dealing with gang-related crime and violence.
Dellroy, I completely disagree with you that "profiling is not a bad thing." My personal opinion is that profiling is awful. But according to that presentation, profiling - in Fairbanks - would not be effective in identifying all gang members. Perhaps the most surprising thing I learned at that presentation was that, in Fairbanks, some gang bangers come from very affluent and stable families. Some of these kids have parents who are doctors, lawyers, etc.
A sad thing I learned at that presentation is that gangs are recruiting kids at ever younger ages. It used to be that only high school kids were involved in gangs. Now, gangs recruit kids in junior high, and even elementary schools, and yes, even here in Fairbanks.
Gangs are a big problem in this community and in this country, a problem that's only getting bigger. An important solution is prevention - stop kids from getting involved in gangs to begin with. Because once they're in, it is really, really difficult for individual members to leave, no matter how much they might want to.
I've grown up here over the past 32 years and have served in the military. I do not blame the military presence in our town for the acts of some of its bad apples. Any group of people that you move into an area is going to bring that 1 or 2% of cretans, chemically imbalanced or just plain ignorant people. I do hold the military accountable for taking care of such problems as soon as they become apparent, not after it spills over into drive by shootings.
That aside I have had this in the back of my head all morning. I went and found something that I wanted to share with everyone.
"Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love. Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars...Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
MLK jr.
This kids weren't aiming to hit. They are just acting out the part. The local boys and the army boys have always clashed so you can't blame it on one of the other. Fairbanks needs more things to intrest the youth and occupy their time. And a iceskating rink won't do. Parents need to stop letting their children run wild and take intrest in their lives and guide them in the right direction. They need attention. OR they will find a way to get it.
I have had a previous roommate killed due to this violence and the case has never been solved. Everyone needs to start cracking down on their resposibilities, parents, youth, citizens and law enforcement. Innocent people will continue to get caught in the middle of it until someone makes some moves.
It's truly amazing how some of you "civilians" want to complain about the military. Whining and moaning because the Richardson HWY is going to close for an hour or two for the air show, or for the arrival of the President. I've seen complaints because of the sonic booms and it has interrupted someones beauty sleep. Two years ago everyone was pleading and begging not to let Eielson fall to BRAC. What load of hypocrital crap! Look, the large majority of you crying like some little school girl, grew up with Eielson and Ft. Wainright well established. Once you made it out on your own you decided to stay put knowing that there are military aircraft flying over with the occassional sonic boom or the soldiers training with thier artillery shells going off and machine guns firing. How can you expect us to be the best we can be if those things don't take place???
Now you want classify all of those who proudly wear a military uniform as "second class" citizens simply because of a couple of punks who happen to be in the military were involved in this incedent. I'm not happy about what took place either. Steroetyping anyone in the military as "second class" is complete BS! It seems as if everyone has put good ol' Fairbanks on some pedestal and now that we have had this shooting it has somehow tarnished its image. What a joke! If you think this is bad,(not that it's good thing this happened) most you would have complete culture shock if you lived in any community in the lower 48 that had a military installation next to it. Such as Fayetteville, NC(a.k.a. Fayettenam). It got that name for a reason. So all of you in Fairbanks have it pretty damn good, so be thankful.
If you want cast blame on how something like this could happen in a town such Fairbanks I suggest pointing your crosshairs at Mayor Stryle and the members of the city council. Let them come up with solution to this "problem". If things like this keep happening well make it known come November and vote someone in that will make a change, if a change is really needed.
Propzilla.....THAT is funny!!
How come we don't hear anything about gangs in Fairbanks until the bullets are flying? Now I have carry my .45 back and forth to my car every day. How about the Mayor or FPD giving us some information on these guys? Who are they, what are they driving, what do they look like like? Us folks in Fairbanks can help the cops control these idiots. I think our local law enforcement is going to do something or the bullets that start flying will be from us at the gangs. And I bet we are better shots then them! I for one am not going to let gangs run my city. If anyone has a clue as to what we can do let me in on it!!
My kids work over there. I know where my kids are and who they hang out with. They told me this was not about "turf" as much as it is being discussed. More like a "deal gone bad". Are there gangs here? yup. Drugs? yup. Parents that are not involved? yup. What does that get us? A bunch of tiny thugs runnin' round town. Don't Ya'all go blaming military, Natives, whatever. Blame people for their actions- one cannot hold an entire group responsible for the behavior of a few morons!
Next- as a community we need to figure out how to be more involved to solve the issue. For some of us it will look like being even more involved with our kids, for others it will be carry, for others it will be keep your ears peeled-and notify authorities. If we all do a part we can nip this in the bud! Quit blaming and start acting!
Coldblooded - very well said. Thank you :)
Lock the gates on Wainwright;move them to some other unfortunate area and the crime in town goes down significantly. Seekins and others who cater to these lowest common denominator types would squeal but the trade off is we'd have a much better community overall.
With Stevens looking for a pardon, the likely hood of this happening has increased exponentially.
The motive of the original Crip, Raymond Lee Washington, was to protect his territory in South Central Los Angeles during the late 60s when he was just a teenager. I don't see how this relates to people in Fairbanks, Alaska, except for the fact that gang violence has become glorified in todays media. What a bunch of wannabes!
Sourdoughdiablo-
You freakin idiot...I am from here!!! So its MY "turf" too! Wow how retarded can you be? I have every right to be here, more than you probably. I'm sure you know all about military life huh? Why don't you take off your slippers and go put some combat boots on for the next 12-15 months in Iraq? I'm sure that your family would be thrilled. HAHA, 1/2 of this town has military affiliations, look around! You think that people are thinking hmmmm maybe I'll just move to fairbanks, ALASKA? THe majority of people have either gotten here by a.) they are alaska natives b.) pipeline c.) military.
The "gangs" here are a majority of civilians and ex-military brats who "grew up" in bigger cities. When they get here they change their personas and suddenly they are crips. I went to school here too and was well aware of this. There are younger military guys who have gang affiliations, but like I said they need to be seeded out.
AlaskCub:
I agree with your thoughts
Military were involved--so be it
Civilian's were involved--so be it
Those who are offended by these facts -- come on get over it!
We all know that a few bad apples exist.
It doesn't matter who---other than they are Gang members--
It matters only that something happened here that needs to be addressed for public's safety
Police can't be everywhere all the time, though they do their best!
The justice system is slow we all know that.
So in the meantime--
I am packing and I know how use it and am not afraid to use it.
I will Never look for any trouble
--But if it comes my way---
I will never be a defensless Victim and neither should you!
Cold-Blooded! For the most part...I , like MamaBearOf2, agree with ya. And I'm a Civilian. You kinda lost me on what Mayor Strle and the City Council can do about this though, because in my line of work, I've seen a large number of "functions" aimed at addressing this problem.
Until people truly decide they want to "Stop the Violence," it will continue.
And it doesn't matter who you vote into elected office.
It's also not just a Military problem either.
Trust me, I know the people driving the Green Buick that got its back window blown out by gunfire...and they AREN'T Military.
Seems ironic that yesterday's incident falls near the 3 year anniversary of the gang-related murder of a local recording artist.
I think many remember that one.....took place early morning hours of August 14, 2005 over on the Southside...and was the culmination of a long-standing feud between Military members and Civilians.
A few choice words, folks foolishly claiming to be from this "set" and that....firearms are brought to bear, and a 25-year old young man named Alvin Wilkins, Jr...AKA "Snoop," lost his life.
Right here on the streets of Fairbanks.
Three Fort Wainwright soldiers were jailed....tried...and later acquitted of Second Degree Murder.
Things hadn't changed up to that point......
They haven't changed since it seems.
Being one who grew up in the very same environment in the Lower 48, who attended Junior College near Los Angeles (want to meet some REAL gang members? Live there for any long period of time. Two years, enough for me.)...and is very familiar with gun battles taking place along the streets, "in the club," etc.
I agree with "Realest" also, these local "thugs" crack me up.
Just thankful no innocent bystanders fell victim to some very senseless activity.
"Turf wars" in Fairbanks, Alaska? WOW!!!!!!
I am in the Air Force, and we have been at Eielson since January. This incident comes as a surprise, but at the same time it's far from an epidemic, or a reflection of the what the military (mainly the Army) recruits into the service. It's a very small minority of idiots, whether military or civilian, who think they are gang bangers. These idiots wont survive a day on the steets of LA, or Chicago. This doesnt reflect the people of Fairbanks or Alaska for that matter. So USAFWIFE, be excited about coming to Eielson. The people here, as a whole, are warm friendly, and eager to help. I cant say enough about our experience here so far.
It doesn't matter if they were civilians or military. What matters is that the Fort Wainwright MP's, Fairbanks Police, and AK State Troopers work together to restore the tranquility and security of the FNSB, in short order.
Hopefully within the next few months the perps will be either residing at Spring Creek or the Stockade at Ft. Leavenworth, as applicable.
Wow - Oldskool....
never really thought we had a 'southside'....
and I lived in the murder capital of the world for 18 years of my life...and I move to Fairbanks...and now you tell me we also have a 'southside'!!!
groan - it is almost funny to a point - too much posturing about nothing
Not too long ago I read in the Stars and Stripes (the newspaper published by the military) that over 50% of present military personnel have criminal records. There have even been some people let in that have 2 felony convictions.
I know that there are also good people in the military, but I believe that the good ones are the minority.
Also, you people that are so concerned with having more and more money that you want a lot of growth and the military presence in Fairbanks for the economy, and big PFD checks .................did you really think you would not have to take the bad with the good?
If you didn't expect the culture of Fairbanks and the rest of Alaska to change for the worse, you are either not very bright, or you were blinded by greed.
Well, I have to wonder... I agree with most here, these guys are a joke. However, a gun in the hand of a joke can be a dangerous thing. I wrote a letter to the provost on post asking what FWW plans on doing to assist/force the hand of FPD to round these guys up and blue ticket them out of town, like the old days (not hanging them from a tree).
I do carry a Colt, and I can sleep at night shooting a man in defense of my family, but I have to wonder how much of a hassle that would be? If one of us law abiding citizens put a well placed bullet into the chest of a criminal on College road, how disruptive to OUR lives will that be? I for one would be a little angry if I got the cuffs slapped on me, even for a minute, if I had to defend my kids. I'm calling Joe Nava.
I do think there should be a community outcry directed toward these thugs that lets them know we as Alaskans aren't going to roll over and expose our underbellies to them. Of course, they don't read the paper online, so all this forum talk is for nothing.
I'm not smarter than a fifth grader so I don't know how to post this with may name. I am who I am, David Throop. I was driving my car when it took the 9 mm bullet through the center of the windshield that passed a foot to the right of my head, went through the backseat hat rack and ended up in the trunk.
First, to all you wantabe gunslingers - where have you been - you can't multitask while driving. To protect my self while driving I would need to cut a hole in the rice rocket roof and hirer a gun operator to focus on the exterior threat. It happens too quick. Remember gun control means you don't put your weapon under the seat or leave it unattended. You could be staring down the business end of your super magnum with your child's boy or girl friend on the other end. If you own a gun, own a safe and use the safe when you don't need the weapon.
Next, thanks to the 911 operator who handled my call in an efficient and professional manner, the State Trooper, Fairbanks Police and University Ambulance who responded with purpose.
And, the hat is off to Ronda Konicki, Joe Murphy, and Dana VanDam, if these are your real names and not pseudo names. Excuse me if I missed some one. That is part of the problem, people do not want to stand up for who they are and what they say. John Hancock (1737-93) knew how to stand up something and not lay down for anything.
And, it was the Army that took me in cause I walked and talked. Yes, in that Army there were thieves, rapists, and murderers, too. Just like there are everywhere. This isn't an Army problem. I work with these troops everyday. Enough Army bashing, take a look in the mirror, the enemy is us.
And, I love America. Yang Yilin screamed it all. Were your parents here to see you compete, among the cheering crowds? " I don't know." We know our team members were there because they wanted to be there not because they were "selected".
Finally, the problem is Fairbanks doesn't have a plan, America doesn't have a plan. Just look at the new north entrance/exit on to University Avenue from University Mall. So why wouldn't an individual want to join a gang with some sort of purpose of immediate satisfaction. Why would they want to work to be part of a community lead by those who have no other aim than the greed to fill their pocket with your cash. So let's start with what we don't want. By pass the whimpy judicial system with mandatory laws for fleeing the police, dui, pointed a weapon at police officer, firing a weapon at another person without provocation etc. In my opinion through my experience it looks like the garden needs to be weeded first.
Isn't technology nice it posted my name
JB-- While I agree with the sentiment in your quote, tell me how it can be applied to this situation? I'm not sniping, I'm honestly curious.
And to those saying, "Give us something to interest our youth!" I say--get the fark out of the house and look around! You live in ALASKA, the greatest outdoors their is. Get a fishing rod, take a hike, go jogging, start skiing, learn to quilt (many firefighting men I know do just that to relax), grow a garden, join a community garden, volunteer with BB/BS, go to the library, work for the railroad, go to Denali.
There are so many opportunities around Fairbanks, for *everyone*. As a mom of 6, don't try to tell me there's "nothing for our kids to do." Just because Fairbanks doesn't host a ton of games centers and expensive dance places, doesn't mean there's nothing to do.
Find the fresh air. Then force your kids to enjoy it. :)
Hi folks,
Sad event for Fairbanks. The only way to get rid of the gang bangers is by agressive police action. You need to search them out and arrest for any charge available. You need to run them for any outstanding warrants. Identify them and hound them!!!
They will be easy to identify. Gang bangers rat each other out.
I love visiting Fairbanks; a great place to be.
To many cities in the lower 48 tend not to be agressive. The cities that are agressive seem to reduce the problem.
Go Fairbanks!
PolarMark and Mr. Throop,
My Daddy easily could have driven with one hand and taken out those punks. He's a former pathfinder who has locally taught firearms classes and an excellent marksman. He's also one of those many on this forum say shouldn't have been allowed into the service. He had a choice 40 years ago, military or penitentary. The military made him the honorable man he is today.
However, I would only advocate ANYONE who packs to learn their weapon, take firearms safety classes and PRACTICE!
I live right around the corner from where this happened and it was exactly the time I'm usually out on College...with a kid. I see these punks frequently.
MrsS
Vote YES for aerial Bloods and Crips control! There should be an 'adopt a gang-banger program' where hunters and fishermen take some of these folks out bear baiting or maybe on a run up the copper river. That way, you don't need a shovel or a bag of lime.
This particular issue is not a shocking matter. Fairbanks as well as any other city, village, or community is well in risk for violence. Not only is this about gang war, this is a touch of realism. We mustn't react in horror, just awareness. This is not a wonderful world and not we will not live perfect lives in out little boxes on the hillside. War is happening around us and eyes must be opened. Fairbanks can quit pretending and begin defending in order to become the community that it is meant to be. This does not mean to shoot all the "bad people" in sight, we must forgive. Violence cannot be distinguished with violence only with peace.
Doubt there were too many people thinking forgiveness when rounds were flying down college road....
wake up
This comment made sense:
"Hi folks...Sad event for Fairbanks. The only way to get rid of...[this]...is by aggressive police action. You need to search them out and arrest for any charge available. You need to run them for any outstanding warrants. Identify them and hound them!!!...They will be easy to identify...Too many cities in the lower 48 tend not to be aggressive. The cities that are aggressive seem to reduce the problem...Go Fairbanks!"
We want aggressive action. I personally don't care if any of the people who think they're 'playing' at this get hurt or are incarcerated - probably a widely shared sentiment.
Uh, people who play these idiot games of course read about the activities online - and they would have to be dumber than rocks to not realize that the people who have written above are not kidding.
We would be insane to not drive this down. Maybe there are some stoners or religious fanatics who get off on some martyr aspect of this stuff. Most of us aren't that dumb. When children or adults start shooting anywhere near innocents, my empathy steers completely away from the situations of those shooting or contributing in any way to the interactions, no matter the age or situation. How smart does one have to be to understand this principle? These idiots should be assured, also, that an amazing number of Fairbanksans carry guns.
Related: I really object to the glorification of the other murder of a few years ago on local TV in response to this. It seems it's a take off, and is in admiration of, a local character known for manipulation based on the value of ritual. Not all of us came to Fbks with the military or were sent here. I come from a culture that would never manipulate emotions or attention by parading death, murder, suffering. I remember the original setup 10 or 12 yrs ago re grabbing private and public attention by exploiting the murders of people in Fbks. Wake up, folks. It's the exploitation of the lowest by the lowest.
Gangs deal in one objective. Fear. Sure, they "deal" in dope (usually hard stuff; crack, crank, coke, heroin, stolen prescription drugs) and illegal guns. But the primary "deal" is fear.
We have decent gun laws here. If you're a good citizen, you can carry. You certainly can keep shotguns, rifles and the like at home. I don't drive many yards a day that I don't see a neighbor who's been hunting recently. Or at the rifle range, or out "plinking".
The main priority here? Don't let these gangs scare you. They are NOT a large part of Fairbanks (unlike some areas of Anchorage) and you are allowed to defend yourself. If you let them rule by fear, you let them RULE. Period.
By the way, the military attachment is legit, and was even in the 70's. Now, it's worse because our military basically takes anyone who is warm enough to ship out. And no, many of our military members are not well-trained with firearms.
However, I'd say that 98% of our Ft. Wainwright and Eielson folks are some of the best people in the world. They are the reason that freedom exists in many areas of this old world. They cannot help the policies and politics that they are deployed under.
Oh, I forgot to add that I am definitely in a minority here - I'm a somewhat liberal Democrat - but I do own a gun, I have been trained in its use by the USAF (when I was in the USAF) and have kept up my training.
I will not bow to fear. I didn't when I was in Texas, Florida, California, Alabama and in other "places" and I will not bow down in my home here in Fairbanks.
Fairbanks is home and always will be - and the decent, regardless of party, politics, religion, race or anything else - will always be my allies.
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" - spoken by that wimpy Brit Churchill, right (if I'm wrong, I know someone on this board will correct me)?
Don't let these folks get a groundhold here - not ANY gang, Bloods, Crips, Aryan Brotherhood, Cholos, NONE. We have good cops, good investigative folks, and a great state. Let's do what good citizens do - respect our law enforcement folks, let them do their jobs (and help when we can) and look out for each other.
These bozos couldn't hit a barn from the inside. I can. And that's how *I* would forgive any of them shooting at ME. It IS time to start 'carrying' again.
Wake up people. It still boils down to the fact that these so called gangs are fighting over turf to sell their drugs, drugs are the problem here and the people using them.
Wayuphere-
That was Franklin Roosevelt - another 'somewhat liberal Democrat' - no, the most liberal Democrat, who led our country out of the Great Depression and who also led us out of World War II.
But you knew that. Can't you just hear his voice resonate? You've heard the recording of him giving that portion of that speech many, many times.
And yeah, I agree with your last paragraph. We'd be insane to let this stuff go on.
mamabear- It is in response to all of actions that led to this article and then the things written, even me in haste, at the on slaught of this whole comment section. Everyone is talking about returning violence with violence. That is where it came from.
Thanks, autumnimprov, I was literally guessing, and on the fly at that - I've heard the speech, and I know what you're talking about, now that I'm not turning a moose steak on the grill between rainshowers for dinner!
stan gorman, it's not just drugs. Drugs, to these gangsta's, are POWER. It's about power and money, "respect" if you will. If they get a toehold here (and they haven't gotten one yet, our fed/state/city cops have been vigilant) - then areas of our town are sunk. Don't let that happen.
Support our local law enforcement people. They really do have the resources to nail this down. They wouldn't be cops (any of 'em) if they didn't care about our entire community.
Remember, this is from someone who got nailed by the same law enforcement folks for protests against Viet Nam, Big Oil, etc., etc.
No, I don't have a record. Yes, I have been in lockup - with a few of these gangbangers, who may have turned out to be regular kids if they hadn't hooked up.
When you have nothing, there are ways out. Some ways out are better than others. Gangs are not an acceptable way; they are inherently violent (look at biker gangs in LA), inherently amoral, inherently anti-human. They look only to their "family". La Cosa Nostra, the Mafia, now the Russian Mafia - large, well-connected........... gangs.
We do not have to let Fairbanks become a killing ground. We DO have to make sure our law enforcement personnel have any and all information that we may have to be available. You may not even know what you saw until a trained cop asks you! I know, it happened to me years ago, and I remembered a partial license tag number. I don't know how much it helped, but it may have.
I'm also a biker (love my Roadstar) so no prejucides there - most of us are "kewl" (according to my kid). But if we're not.... turn 'em in.
If you KNOW it's a "drug house", don't quit - let everyone in the community know. If you KNOW a gangsta, steer clear, but let everyone in the community know.
I've called in my share of stuff to the cops. Sometimes the best way is a "shot fired" or "domestic dispute" if it's small. But if it's big, don't try 911, call a direct line, talk to the guy in charge, give them ALL the info you have.
It works. I can't promise, but I've done it, and I've seen it work.
Our community is too good to lose it to this type of crap. North, South, East and West Fairbanks, Ft. Wainwright, North Pole, Eielson - we've got the beauty of the land, the bounty of the land, and the good of our people. We can't afford to lose it to garbage.
I find it interesting that because a few of us carry weapons (and were trained to do so) we are 'barnyard vigilantes' and wannabe gunslingers. Sorry you feel that way, David. I understand that YOU were the one shot at, and I'm sorry about that, too. I've been mugged before, and know exactly how fast it can happen. But as a tax paying, law abiding citizen, I don't think it prudent to ridicule anyone for carrying a firearm in self-defense. The folks who forged this country would be sick to their stomachs. Oh well. I have faith that the local law and FWW will make good on this bs. This is my town, and I'll be damned if I'll see it turned into some ghetto. And I still think the imagery of some jerk standing on the corner selling rocks and worrying about turf in the ice fog is funny. Bottom line is that something must be done about these people, Iand I agree that it should be the people paid to do so.
Another way gang members are recruited is through the internet. With the age of high tech they can reach more teens. And yes, gangs have been in the area long before this incident.
I remember attending a meeting when Chief Lamm was still at North Pole PD and he talked about the gangs. He said himself it was frustrating to the police of the lack of accountability. He told of a young person (who was not military) who had held up the video store in North Pole with a gun. The police arrested him, they took him into Fairbanks. Chief Lamm said that on his way back to North Pole after doing the paperwork, he sees the same kid walking across the parking lot of the mall. It seems the judge gave him house arrest and even told his parents that they couldn't ground him because it was against his rights.
This is why there is so much of this going on now. Along with arming yourself with your guns, arm yourself with an ink pen or email. Email our representatives and get them to make it where these kids serve the time and that criminals are not allowed to plea bargain when there is a gun or any other weapon is involved.
All of those shots fired and nobody got hit. Just wait until one of those stray shots hits and kills a moose out of season - the brown shirts of Fur, Fin & Feathers are much more effective.
wow who would have ever thought that the US Army would be dealing drugs in fairbanks alaska. they know who they are so you would think they would know where they are or atleast where they live. have a lock down of the base. make it just like it was when the war just started. every car truck and piece of quipment was searched. come on general get off your arse and do something about this.
Coldblooded: I don't know if it is a coincidence or what but the worst character/gangster types i run into on base every night seem to be from N.C....and what is with the "small south" stickers in their back windshields?
For everyone on here going on about how we need to "crack down on these gangs" and "get tough" etc. etc. I suggest you do a little research.
http://www.justicepolicy.org/images/uplo...
For everyone who doesn't want to read the full 108 pages. It basically says that:
"Suppression ("getting tough") remains
an enormously popular response to gang activity
despite concerns by gang experts that such tactics
can strengthen gang cohesion and increase tension
between law enforcement and community members.
Results from Department of Justice–funded interventions
in three major cities yield no evidence that
a flood of federal dollars and arrests had a positive
impact on target neighborhoods. St. Louis evaluators
found that dozens of targeted arrests and hundreds of
police stops failed to yield meaningful reductions in
crime in the targeted neighborhoods, even during the
period of intense police activity. Dallas residents saw
the incidence of “gang-related” violence fall in target
areas but had little to celebrate because the overall
violent crime numbers rose during the intervention
period. Detroit evaluators reported initial reductions
in gun crimes within two targeted precincts, but the
apparent gains were short-lived: by the end of the
intervention period, the incidence of gun crime in
target areas was at preintervention levels and trending
upward."
quoted from: http://www.justicepolicy.org/images/uplo...
The article does not name any specific strategies of getting rid of gangs in a specific area, as this is impossible. Instead it says we should focus our efforts on getting rid of the reasons why people would join gangs in the first place. You're welcome to read the whole thing to find out more.
So we have GANGS who are in the MILITARY, 15 shots fired and no-one gets hurt? Bad aim!
Turf Wars? Lets get real, they aren't smart enough to own anythng, let alone property. (Legally or through force.) Fear not, I come from a town that was full of these twits. They fight with each other ONLY because they really don't want to kill anybody or be killed. They know if they tangle with the general population they will be on the ground in a pool of blood. Thats why there is a lot of shooting but no hits. When they can't go anywhere in Fairbanks where someone isn't telling them to pull-up their pants, put their cap on straight and that they should be eliminated from the gene-pool, they will be done. Problem solved! The general public has allowed this behavior and it can stop it anytime it has the will. Picture 100 armed men confronting 3 or 4 twits about their behavior. Thats the way it was in the REAL "Wild West" and why there was little crime in most cities back then.
(Remember these poor little settlers were hardened by the Civil War which Hollywood forgot.) Sorry to bust your bubble but the "West" wasn't that wild back then compared to todays standards!
Just be sure not to damage their fragile self image, comment on their lifestyle, or hurt their ego when confronting them! lol
If these are military men that in alone should be able to get them arrested and sent back to where they came from. The military will not tolerate these thugs. I know several military families and they have alot better morales than some of these postings. They are good families and should not be portrayed otherwise. HELLO OUT THERE IF YOU WANT MORE POLICE OFFICIERS THAN EVERYONE HAS TO PAY MORE TAXES FOR THAT TO BE POSSIBLE.
Someone should tell them that the shooting range is down off the end of South Cushman...not along College road. Obviously they must have been attempting to improve their aim. Of course they obviously failed miserably and it's a good thing. If anybody had been hit family and friends of that person might have decided to take out each suspect...of course it would not be the right thing to do but it sure would have solved the problem.
kgage - I'm glad their morale is good but how are their morals :] The military community is just like any other community. They have their share of good and bad. However, I do believe the many of the folks in charge of the military community are just like the folks in charge of our community, ineffective.
I am so appalled at some of the comments about kicking the military out of the state or quartining the base. Let me tell you something. I live on post right by the main gate. I have sat out in my garage (before the gate went up)and have watched drunk natives, civilians and soliders walk on and off this post at the bridge. I have seen these same people at the playground making drug deals.I have had garage sales and know for fact that non-military come on post and use the services here as well. And NO I do not know who these wannabes are but if I did I would do to them what I did to have that gate put up to protect my children and that was to call the MPs constantly and walk around with a petition.
I did not come here by choice,guess I did since I am married to a Law-abiding soldier, His orders sent him here. Frankly, I am glad cuz I have met some wonderful friends here. Anyways, What I am trying to say is that just because it was printed that military was involved every comment is bashing the military. Why is no one bashing the others that were involved? It was not just military. I sit and read all the letters to the editor and the following comments and 90% of the comments bash military. I am so sick of it.
WOW! I just read the article printed on the 17th and it said they know who they are and that the 2 soldiers involved are restricted to the post while the others are roaming free. So I ask...Who's not doing their job? The military did but not the "good ole city" of fairbanks. So all you military bashers... you better start bashing your city officials and law enforcement for dropping the ball.
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