Troopers increase presence at fair after 20-person scuffle
Published Thursday, August 7, 2008
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Stumble It!FAIRBANKS — Alaska State Troopers have been making more rounds at the Tanana Valley State Fair since what one trooper called a “melee” involving at least 20 people was reported there Sunday night.
Troopers were called to the fair shortly after 9:30 p.m. for a report that about 20 juveniles and adults who were possibly gang members were assembling to fight, Trooper Michael Wery said.
Troopers dispersed the group but were called back a short time later to break up another group of about 12 people who were engaged in an altercation. A security guard for the fair sustained a minor injury in the course of that scuffle.
“Moving around, walking more, seems to be a good deterrent,” Wery said, noting that no other similar incidents have been reported at this year’s fair.
No arrests have been made and no charges have been filed in the case.
Community Discussion
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Frankly I'm not surprised that this happened, and I'm glad the troopers are making more of a presence. While at the fair I was waiting in line for immediately in front of the security building while two teen males got into a debate to figure out who had the most testicular fortitude. One of the "gentlemen" kept moving closer and standing next to me, while continuing to insult his acquaintance. Hoping, I think, that he could continue his actions and would be safe from attack because he was standing next to a woman.
Needless to say I would have drop-kicked them both into sometime next week had either come close to me. They were pounding on their chests, bumping shoulders, and going chest to chest in what I believe are the "bring it on" signal of their species. I thought it was quite absurd that these youth could act this way without security noticing. Luckily the situation diffused itself when some of their friends with less testosterone and more sense dragged them away from each other.
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But they didn't make examples out of any of them, including the one(s) that caused the injury to the security guard! Between the insane prices and obnoxious people, there is no real point in even going to the fair...why risk my children's safety? No thanks!
well said mariebarr, but had you drop kicked them we'd still have to deal with them sometime next week. Remember the good ol days when "security guards" could crack bozos like this over the head with a flashlight.
I say, If you are disruptive in a public setting and are a intimidation to women and children, put these uncivilized excuses in a work program that is mandatory for 6 months,no if ands or butts with no legal counsel. To be guilty you will need three witnesses. We then can literally clean the streets.
Just a question because I don't know.. Where are the Fairbanks police? I see allot of "issues" reported that happen inside the city limits that are constantly handled by the Troopers, why not the city police. I have seen this in North Pole as well. Who takes care of what? I'm not bagging on any law enforcement and I'm definitely not complaining because one responds over the other. Just curious.
Fairbanks Joe,
me and my friends saw you poking that old lady in line! Time for you to clean my gutters :P
Tree Dweller,
the city police are way understaffed, and the ITA wants to cut thier funding too
treehugger - The fairgrounds happen to fall into the jurisdiction of the State Troopers along with many other areas that are easy to confuse with "city limits". And as a sidenote, there are fewer troopers based in the Fairbanks area than there are FPD Officers due to manning shortages.
They should round up all those people involved and send them to Point Hope where state laws don't apply...... They can do what they want there.
I saw a little boy, about 15 years old last night at the fair, dressed in all 'ganster' clothing like he was P Diddy or something, go up to a concession stand, grab an expensive item and ask the owner, what would you do if I broke this? Him and his little friends were laughing about it, like it was funny.
What kind of kids are these parents raising. Fairbanks if full of these kids, wannabe gangsters, who think they are in Compton representin'. Its a freaking joke. When you walk through the fair these days, you see them all over the place, with their hats to the side, baggy pants, etc. That part doesn't bother me, its when they try to act all gangster...come on...really...are you really that 'hard' and 'bad'???? You live in Fairbanks, Alaska, move to Compton and take all your little gangsta friends with you and see what its really like...you wannabee's.
I'm just tired of all these little "scuffles" and fights from these little kids who apparently have major insecure issues.
Yeah this seems to be a growing trend for years. People acting like the can do what they want at anytime. Yeah well i have news for you a 45 or a knife like paul hogan. One has to protect themselves from these wanna bees. Eventually it will become marshal law or we will have to join forces (the good ones that have sense enough)to protect what is true to our hearts. I agree with the whole lot of you. We will stand up and fight for our rights. As a Life NRA member i have rights everybody does too and i carry a concealed weapon at all times because it is my right to bear arms. Times are tough and are going to get tougher and we WILL stand our ground.
Imusuallyright.. you just put some funny imagery into me head. thanks for the laugh! :)
This is a little off topic, but another thing that bothers me at the fair is to see all these teens and pre-teens smoking. I'd like to see a consequence for that.
Where else can negligent parents get daycare for 10 bucks per day? Parents will let their kids act how they want and go where they want because it frees up time for the parents to do whatever it is they do when they aren't parenting. The American family is messed up and that's why America is messed it.
No wtwlly, you should give those punks your specialty move.. a wet willy.
As a regualr Fair Volunteer/sometimes Vendor/ ...
I have to give a nod and tip my bonnet to the Fair Association for acting quickly in this instance.
When I arrived to my booth Monday, my partners briefed me on the situation. Monday night was very peaceful, they had the place locked down by 10 p.m.
The Fair is supposed to be a family fun event, and a great opportunity to catch up with old friends we haven't seen for awhile. Bad attitudes should stay home!
-RK
I say send in the dogs!! Like they do in Germany. That way the medical bill goes to the parents.
The Fairbanks police were in fact there.They were at the Mini-Donuts stand.
Thanks Robster for the info.
I have witnessed what you all are talking about. Its a sad realization that in a few short years Fairbanks may suffer from the same issues Anchorage in suffering from now. Gang activity weather by actual gang members or "wannabe" gangsters will increase unless the foot is put down and placed square in the pants of the offenders.
I took my 18, 16, 15 & 13 year old children to the fair and was shocked at the way people let their children just run off and do what they want! I would never allow that! Im paying for them to get into the fair they are staying with me! Why don't people think anymore? I know kids will be kids but come on ...it all starts at home! People need to start teaching their kids some respect and responsibility! We are constantly complaining about everyone else ... wake up, parents need to start taking responsibility for their children! Teach them right and wrong! I HATE standing in line some where and hearing young kids cursing and talking about inappropriate things ... I find that disrespectful!
Aknative, I have thought the same thing... These little punks here who think they are "representing" would get their collective little hiney's kicked in any big city. It seriously makes me just giggle. Truly though, if these kids were given some self esteem when it counts they might not be trying so hard to be tough.
just send them all to FCC or FYF for the remainder of the fair, the wannabe's want to cause problems let them cause problems in FCC or FYF where the police/guards can keep an eye on them
I like how we use this as "us" against "them".
Oh well, they will get what is coming to them too.
This type of behavior has been happening since the dawn of human time.
For example: Look at the Iraq war, it too is pointless, winless, and wasteful of good Human "capital" energy.
tsk tsk.
Boy, aren't we all the righteous ones commenting.
Moose creek,
My 13 year old paid my way into the fair so I could hang with him. And, when he spied some friends of his he took my 11 year old and paid for all the rides.
My wife and I then had a nice dinner and watched a show.
Where did I go wrong?
AKNATIVE: I'm with you.
The thing is after living in cities/states like Boston, NY and Nevada these kids need to get a clue. Not to mention the HS kids who think its cool to dress gangsta and listen to gangsta rap...please....like someone else said they wouldn't last a minute in the real "hood."
Akprincess, you're right! It makes me giggle too. What a joke, these types of kids are jokes, and an embarrasment. Too bad they are all under 18 years old otherwise I could do more about it. If I did now, then thats when you'd see their parents FINALLY. In court for me kicking the crap out of their baggy little pant hinies. This day and age you can't do or say anything otherwise you get sued. It would be nice if our society would allow responsible adults to discipline random kids who are acting like fools...but no, we have to watch our p's and q's, that is until one of them looks or talks to my daughter in a way I find inappropriate, then it will be on!
Skagdog,
My kids, (including my responsible 14 y.o. honors student of a daughter, now testing her boundaries in limited ways as a teen), don't go to the fair unattended. I neither leave others to tend to my children's potential seeking of 'boundary definition,' nor do I leave my children to be victimized by others' kids who should've been taught better manners and social skills than they were.
--------------------------------------------------
The pattern of responding to baggy pants, hats, etc., as exemplified in school dress codes, etc., has done little more than to provide an avenue for those seeking a reaction and an unearned 'tough guy' rep to achieve it through otherwise hollow symbolism.
The more adults focus on the clothing, rather than the behavior, the more those teens (not all of whom are even involved in such anti-social behavior) are drawn to that type of garb; it's a power button of sorts, simply because some have made it so. They know they can get a reaction. And they get one.
Deal with the behaviors; don't tolerate negligent/neglectful parenting, don't tolerate aggressive/victimizing behavior by children. Those are the core issues.
-----------------------------------
As a young boy many years ago, when we went to the fair, we went as a family. My family still does. We go, view the exhibits, occasionally see some old friends, ride a few rides (at the price they demand for rides these days, 'a few' is all that I'll pay for, before getting incensed at the ridiculousness of it), then we get one or two food items that represent our personal favorites, and we leave, surviving another year meandering through the masses of untended 'children,' and adolecsent-minded young adults.
That's really sad. How can anyone fight or have any attitude problems in the presence of baby goats and giant cabbages and cotton candy and a ferris wheel? Isn't that against some law of nature?
Talk is cheap people. Unless your part of the solution you are part of the problem.
Get busy.
Tanana Chiefs Conference Inc
122 1st Ave # 600, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 452-8251 x3144
Boys & Girls Club-Tanana00 Cushman St, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 457-5223
Girl Scouts
431 Old Steese Hwy, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 456-4782
North Star Youth Court
800 Cushman St # 101, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 457-6792
Big Brothers Big
610 Cushman St # 300, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 452-8110
Young Life Fairbanks
Ste 104, 427 1st Ave, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 456-7029
Interior Youth Basketball
PO Box 72587, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 457-4492
Young Life
1485 30th Ave, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 456-7029
Youth Education Support Services
1423 Peger Rd, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 452-2109
Boy Scouts of America
1400 Gillam Way, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 452-1976
Ralph Perdue Center
3100 S Cushman St, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 452-6251 x211
Camp Fire Birch Park
505 Stewart St, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 452-2687
Joel's Place
1890 Marika Rd, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 452-2621
Fairbanks Ice Dogs Junior Hcky
3180 Peger Rd, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 452-2111
Camp Fire USA Alaska Council
565 University Ave # 3A, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 456-4334
Fairbanks Youth Soccer Association
1861 Standard Ave, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 456-3976
Project Special Delivery
710 3rd Ave, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 452-4222
Youth Fitness Center Inc
1949 Gillam Way # 208, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 457-5401
Tanana Chiefs Conference Inc
1302 21ST Ave, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 452-8251 x3460
Graf Rheeneenhaanjii
PO Box 80450, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 455-4725
Greater Fbksyaba
946 Cowles St, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 374-3286
4-H Clubs of Ak Coop Extension
1000 University Ave # 138, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 474-2427
Camp Fire Woodriver
5000 Palo Verde Ave, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 479-3813
Camp Fire USA Alaska Council
Fairbanks, AK - (907) 456-2332
Womens and Children Center for
1027 Evergreen St, Fairbanks, AK - (907) 451-8164
Boys & Girls Club-The Tanana
220 Park Way, North Pole, AK - (907) 488-7838
Interior Girls Softball
Fairbanks, AK - (907) 456-3371
Alaska Military Youth Academy Fairbanks, AK - (907) 374-7960
Fort Wainwright Community Counseling Mcuc/CCC Building 1064, 1060 Gaffney Road Suite 6600, Fort Wainwright, AK - (907) 353-9872
Camp Fire USA Alaska Council: Camp Fire University Park
Fairbanks, AK - (907) 479-3788
Just to name a few.
Wow, that was Sunday night? How come it took four days to get into the paper?
A note about the Fairbanks Police the fair grounds are not in my/our/the city limits. So why would the be there? I also wonder if these want to be gangs are related to the fight at the Wal-Mart. I also want to now what we can do or the city or the police to rid our selves of these want to be gang members. I don't think we in Fairbanks and the surronding area need to put with their crap.
Arvay...!
I'm with you!
Just so you know...
Little kids can be pretty rude too.
Even with parents close by, some always cut in line.
Last night, for example, I had three sets of young kids try to cut in line before us and in front of those behind us.
I stopped 'em, and asked them weren't they taught any manners, and made 'em get in their place in line.
I have had this happen for years. Remember when the snow hill used to be piled up at Alaskaland parking lot and the borough used to let us sled there?
There, the little kids used to be bad cutters. Just about everywhere. I always call them on it.
I'll give $10.00 to each and every one of you if you'll call one of the organizations above and volunteer your time to help correct the social problems you see in the children of this community.
I've worked at the fair for alot of years.I think the upper mangement of secruity company at the fair is not very good this season and has really gone down hill.They rarely answer raidio calls from others and the main boss of the company left after two days to go set up an other event.I think the mighty fair board needs to hire a new company next year.For the reg guards they are doing a good job but are way understaffed.The guard that was hurt was not just hurt alittle like the newswiner said the guy had his ankle broke in 3 places and now has to have pins in his ankle for the rest of his life.
But with the super troopers on hand and mostly the rain everythings been fine since sunday.This is not the first time theres been a big fight at the fair and sorry to say won't be the last.
I think the fair board needs to take a good look in the mirrior maybe there lies the problem with our cool little fair
see ya on the garbage trail,
AKraider
You know how the measurement stick that are by the rides that say one has to be a certain height to ride or the one that says must be accompanied by an adult. Wonder what would happen if such measures were taken at the entrances? Under 18 must be accompanied by a parent or legal guardian. Or how about a rude entrance and have it fenced along a path that leads an arena where 'gang wannabes' can mingle and do their stuff while enclosed. Could be a good side show, free of course. People are fun to watch don't you agree...just have to shake your head. And like Corinne says, I am not afraid to intervene when it comes to rudeness of any age.
Here’s how it works.
You contact one the organizations above and volunteer your time, leave your online name with them, let the world know of what you’ve done back here and I’ll got to the organization and leave $10 for you and another $10 for the organization. Later on I’ll check to see if you ever showed up. If you do, the world is suddenly a better place. If you don’t, I’ll let the organization keep the $20 and be sure to let everyone know what a no-show, blow-hard, do-nothing, loser you are.
I don't even go to the fair any more. Too high prices and too many punks. I don't understand why the law enforcement lets these gang type activtites go. Some one should have been arrested. It seems like they never do anything when it is a 'gang'.
Not_From_North_Pole, I appreciate your sentiments, but I really dislike the whole "Unless your part of the solution you are part of the problem" thing.
Are you saying that when belligerent children intimidate decent people, then unless those decent people are doing volunteer work on the side, it's their own fault? That they are "blow-hard, do-nothing losers"?
Sorry, no.
You're assigning the title "loser" to the wrong party.
What fair, it's become a carnival in more ways than one. The livestock and agriculture displays hardly had anything to them. Just an indication how this town is changing. Move the Fair back to latter in August and give the farmers a chance to let their corps develop. Forgot school starts before than, and it's the kids who bring in their parents' money.
Arvay,
Well, then we will just have to agree to disagree.
My offer stands.
Anyone?
Come on. Anyone?
Which one do you volunteer with not_from_north_pole? my wife and i did our time with big brothers big sisters before you throw the same question back at me.
Not_From_North_Pole,
I appreciate your enthusiasm, however offensively misdirected, but I'll be where I belong; with -MY- kids, finishing building a walk-in meat and fish smoker, a greenhouse, an anti-moose fence around the two gardens, knee braces on my entryways, getting ready to double-wall those same entryways, and getting ready for hunting season, in order to put meat on our table this winter.
I'm not certain that we need another organization, or even more involvement in the ones that are already here.
What we -do- need is for parents to know where their kids are, and make sure that their kids are behaving as they should, or facing meaningful consequences for inappropriate behaviors.. That doesn't necessarily require private-non-profits, government interventions, or anything else (that often serve as mechanisms to further remove the parents from their roles and duties). It doesn't necesarily require Hillary's 'Whole Village' approach.
It DOES require parents to be parents, and be called on it when they're not properly atending to their children.
Lots of folks get incensed about current levels of government intrusion into private lives, and then call for more government intrusion because the responsible parties aren't being responsible..
It's not Uncle Sam's or Uncle Al's job to make sure that my under-age kids aren't on drugs, aren't assaulting others, aren't stealing what's not theirs, or anything else. That's my job.
If there are parents who aren't doing that job, then that issue needs to be addressed for what it is, not transferred to some private non-profit so folks can feel good about themselves for doing another adult's job for them.. unless that other adult is truly not available.
not-from-north pole: should read:
from-fantasy land (not the adult store).
That will never work and you know it.
Good suggestion, Not_From_North_Pole.
However, not all of the organizations listed will accept volunteers. And not all of them serve children or teens.
By the way, what is Project Special Delivery?
I volunteer every week for a local addictions program that has a great teen program. It is extremely rewarding to see the results of your efforts to help others.
Parents all-too-often have thrown up their hands and given up. The saying, "It takes a village to raise a child" applies in Fairbanks, too. If the parents aren't doing it, then any thing we can do to offer guidance and deserved praise to children and teenagers will make a difference in their lives.
Obviously, society has failed to support the needs of their inner child. George W. put forced them to reach out by using negative feedback to signal their "cry for help". Fortunately, our future president's policy for "Change" will transform the country, to include Fairbanks, into a modern and sensitive utopia. I'm sure that by the next fair, all the youth involved in the incident reported above will be out in the parking lot checking the air in everyone’s tires as a public service. Their gender non-specific parents will have received their $1000 energy rebate from the evil oil corporations and with the dividends brought by the new TransCanada pipeline, will be able to escort them to the fair in a politically correct, diverse manner.
Does anyone know the words to "We Are the World"?
reb17,
Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, Kiwanis, a bit with the Curling Lions and Youth Court, all in all around 36 kids, not one of which has been in a fight at the Tanana State Fair.
FreeDafur - the majority of the livestock exhibits, including 100% of the livestock exhibits that are in the Market Livestock Auction, are raised by school age children participating primarily through the 4-H and FFA programs. Moving the fair to a time that would conflict with school would greatly impact these exhibits.
Additionally, the Palmer fair is later in August. If the Tanana Valley State Fair were to move to days that could potentially conflict with the Palmer fair, either directly or overlapping set up and take down days, many vendors would not participate in Fairbanks. If a vendor HAS to choose between Fairbanks and Palmer, they are going to the Palmer fair because it's bigger and they make more money.
As much as the agricultural community may not want to admit it, the fair's revenue is primarily driven in various ways by the booths, the food, and the midway. There are people that pay their admission to see the exhibits, but I believe the fair could not remain financially viable without the revenue generated by the other things. If the fair can not make ends meet then there is no fair at all. No livestock, no quilts, no vegetables, no anything.
I certainly appreciate the concerns of the vegetable growers who could get bigger vegetables if the fair was held later, but as with everything there are always trade-offs to be made.
aknative,
Call one of those organizations, volunteer, let us know which one it was and I'll leave you, within a day, at the front counter, $10.00 in cash with your online name on it.
GOOD BEHAVIOR AND MANNERS START AT HOME. WHAT DO WE WANT FROM THESE KIDS....LOOK AT WHO THEIR PARENTS ARE!!!
I appreciate your sentiments Not_From_North_Pole, but have you checked to see if the non-profits want to handle people coming in to pick up $10 from their front counters? Many of them are short-staffed as it is and giving them this additional administrative duty may not be worth the $10 they receive. Maybe it will be, but it would probably be good to check first.
It's good that you're out there promoting positive change.
In the 50's we were warned Rock and Roll music would cause this type of behavior. :}
Gosh Dirk,
I'm so darn filthy rich with cash and time that I can hire armies of pions to do all the same chores for me.
Get real, if your such a darn good Dad I'm sure there's room in your heart to help others with their kids as well.
Or are you not Dad enough?
journeyon,
If all it took was to hand over someone elses $10.00 to get a decent, dedicated volunteer, and get another $10.00 for their trouble, I'm sure they wouldn't mind.
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They would do back flips if they could get Dirk.
Great post, Dirk. Sounds like you truly care about your kids.
Unfortunately, there are many, many kids in Fairbanks who do not have parents who care enough to get involved in their lives
mackie,
No. But, I like your sense of humor.
Not from north pole
How many children do you have?
By the time I work a full time job to support my children(so that no one else has to). I get home feed my children and take the to their various activities that I also volunteer for which includes other children as well. Not to mention all of the other kids that migrate to our house. I take care of my own I always know where they are. One does not have to belong to one of these organizations to do their part.
Not From North Pole -
I KNOW that it takes WAY more than $10 to get a good volunteer. And it takes WAY more than $10 to get rid of a bad volunteer. Just because someone is willing to work for free it doesn't mean that they're going to be a good fit for your organization. Even "free" labor costs quite a bit.
Not_From_North_Pole,
I'm often all the dad I need to be.
But with your snarky comments and attitude, I can see why your cup would runneth over with volunteers.
I helped bring three kids into this world, and I've worked plenty, years ago, with other youth.
Now convince me that all of those urchins who are frequenting those pnp's you've listed, simply have no functional parents, and no one else who cares. Sure, some fit that bill. But far from all. It's become a convenient place for parents to let their kids go, and reduce the burden of being a parent. For some respite, that might be excellent. But as a way of life, those in other fields might call that 'enabling.'
So thanks for helping to relieve the burden of parents who simply have grown accustomed to dumping their kids on those door-steps, and not fulfilling their obligations in having given birth, thus, indirectly helping to get the federal and state grant monies that they define their purpose by, based on the head-counts.
Yes, I know they do some good. But you've yet to acknowledge the harms that they subtly perpetrate, as well.
I know where my kids are. I know what they're doing. And they know what their boundaries are. When they're wrong, they're called on it. When the neighbor kids step out of line, I don't call Father Flannigan or his Boys' Town hotline; I call their parents.
Do some kids need a place to go? Yep. Are all of those organizations necessary or needed, due to someone not creating better cause for parents to be responsible. No. Do some parents take advantage of those circumstances and programs, and thus become even less involved in their kids' lives. Yeppers.
Now see if you can further insult others parenthood in such elementary fashion as you've thus far demonstrated.
So back to the fair talk...I remember last yr i was walking around and saw a kid--about 14 I would say get into a fight with these "gangster wannabees" and of course the kid runs off cause it's now like 7 to 1, so later on i'm on a ride and i watch this herd, literally, of kids ranging from 7 or so to probably 17 18 yrs old, lead by the orginal attackers. There was probably 30+ of them. I watched the scour the fairgrounds for about 20mins looking for that poor kid, i hope they never found him cause whatever he did to piss them sure wasn't going over well with them.
I'm getting no nibbles. It's time to switch bait.
My previous offer is no-longer available.
So, the first person who posts that they have called any youth oriented program that will take them and volunteers today, I'll give you $50.00 and $100.00 to the organization you've joined. The only requirement, prove you've spent 40 hours there.
lucy,
I've got two
I highly doubt that an organization is going to want a volunteer that has shown up because of an anonymous $10 challenge. That's not how you get decent volunteers. That's how you create problems for organizations that already have too much to do.
I'm not doubting your intentions. I think your heart is in the right place. But the we all know what road good intentions pave.....
I still stand behind my comments even with your new offer. This is not effective volunteer recruitment. You are potentially creating a lot of problems for organizations that you claim to care about. One bad volunteer sucks up a lot of precious time, energy, and yes....even money.
You are not going to be seen as the "good guy" that saved kids by going about it this way. You could do more if you stopped posting online and went to go volunteer for one of these organizations or talked to your friends and family members individually about joining you in volunteering.
Max: In the 50's we were warned Rock and Roll music would cause this type of behavior. :}
Max, in the '50s, no one could have even imagined the kind of behavior that is common in teens today.
The '50's music was relatively innocent. But the gangsta rap music and hip hop music most teens are listening to today would shock any parent who took the time to see what their kids are listening to. They are acting out what they hear in their music, including drinking, drugs, violence, degrading of women, illicit and perverted sex, filthy language, rebellion against authority, and the list goes on and on.....
Parents REALLY need to get more involved in their kids' lives - and give them some guidelines and discipline and consequences.
journeyon,
Would that be the road where no one fights at the fair?
the fair should be a time of enjoyment for everyone young and old..... there will always be problems and complaints i took 3 kids and my husband and we went around 4 oclock and had no problems.. there were no punks no lines and we had a very enjoyable evening... if teens and gangs are an issue go earlier in the day or evening. i do agree about the troopers i just saw the same 2 walking around if there was a problem how are they going to take all the people fighting to jail or even ask what happened. they are there for show to say dont do anything you will regret later..but i have teanagers this is the greeen light i say NO and they do it.... parents can only be held accountable for so much that there children do... are they not responsible for there own actions... on the flip side if my teans get into gangs i will tend to them as if they are 3 year olds and start parenting 101 with them....
When you cease to make a contribution, you begin to die.
Eleanor Roosevelt
If you help others, you will be helped, perhaps tomorrow, perhaps in one hundred years,
but you will be helped.
Nature must pay off the debt...It is a mathematical law and all life is mathematics.
Gurdjieff
Love cannot remain by itself -- it has no meaning.
Love has to be put into action, and that action is service.
Mother Teresa
Through our willingness to help others we can learn to be happy rather than depressed.
Gerald Jampolsky
I don't know what your destiny will be, but one thing I do know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who have sought and found how to serve.
Those among you who will be truly happy are those who have sought and found how to serve.
Dr. Albert Schweitzer
If I can help somebody as I pass along,
if I can cheer somebody with a word or song,
if I can show somebody he's traveling wrong,
then my living will not be in vain.
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
In every community there is work to be done. In every nation there are wounds to heal.
In every heart there is the power to do it.
Marianne Williamson
In this troubled world, it's refreshing to find someone who still has the time to be kind.
Someone who still has the faith to believe that the more you give, the more you receive.
Someone who's ready by thought, word, or deed to reach out a hand, in the hour of need.
Helen Steiner Rice
Caring is a reflex...You live, you help.
Ram Dass
Stop bitching about kids and start helping them
Not_From_North_Pole
Aknative: “I saw a little boy, about 15 years old last night at the fair, dressed in all 'ganster' clothing … What kind of kids are these parents raising. Fairbanks if full of these kids, wannabe gangsters, … That part doesn't bother me, its when they try to act all gangster...come on...really...are you really that 'hard' and 'bad'???? I'm just tired of all these little "scuffles" and fights from these little kids who apparently have major insecure issues.”
You know, Aknative, I think you hit on something here. The part about the major insecurity issues.
There is no denying that the average American family has deteriorated and degraded to a degree that we would have never thought possible in our youth. Also, we no longer have the extended families that we once had. Plus, many children are victims of broken homes and single-parent family situations.
Most of these kids simply do not have the support network they need. Many kids are truly starved for love and affection. Their parents or working or drinking or otherwise doing their own thing, and the kids are all-too-often left to themselves. They have no guidelines, no boundaries set for them, no expectations, no teaching of right and wrong. No-one is supervising their activities, their music, their relationships. They have no accountability. They do not know the concept of consequences.
Dirk has three kids and I have thirty six.
moosecreekcarey: “I took my 18, 16, 15 & 13 year old children to the fair and was shocked at the way people let their children just run off and do what they want! … People need to start teaching their kids some respect and responsibility! We are constantly complaining about everyone else ... wake up, parents need to start taking responsibility for their children! Teach them right and wrong! I HATE standing in line some where and hearing young kids cursing and talking about inappropriate things ”...
You know, Moose Creek, most of these kids have no idea that what they are doing is wrong. They talk the way their friends talk. Often, sadly, the way their parents talk. They have not been taught respect. They have not been taught any moral values.
I recently questioned a 15 year old girl about why she posted pictures online of herself posing seductively in her underwear. She seemed to have no concept that it was wrong.
One day I was sitting at a deli table in Safeway, and 3 or 4 teenagers were talking (loudly) about very personal things – actually discussing their various sexual partners and the specifics of each encounter. They seemed to have no concept that it was not appropriate to talk about such things in public. (Not that I condone talking about it in private, either, but their openness about it shows that they have no concept that this is not normal and right.)
I am firmly convinced that most parents HAVE NO CLUE as to what their teenagers are doing, either at home (online, music) or out in public.
WAKE UP, PARENTS! Our current generation of youth is in very, very serious trouble.
No wonder they turn to the gangster wannabees for companionship. It gives them a sense of belonging and comradship that they are not getting from their parents and families.
Not_From_North_Pole: "Dirk has three kids and I have thirty six."
Get off it. You are not PARENTING these kids just because you work with organizations they are involved in.
You have a SERIOUS ego problem.
Oh, wait a minute. No can do. I'll be at Boy Scouts.
NFNP - Your self-righteousness isn't helping your misguided case any. I'm presuming that the children causing the issues are not taking advantage of programs available to them. So, how about instead of offering us money, go to the fair and offer each of them $50 to spend 40 hours volunteering and taking advantage of those programs. I have a feeling that would accomplish a lot more than your previous suggestions.
I agree with the above statements about the teens being insecure. I also think that through a variety of circumstances that teens have become overly obsessed with who is insulted/"dissed"/"disrespected" who and other ridiculous things. I think the whole thing has snowballed into the situation it is now, and it's going to take a lot of work to un-do what has been done.
IUR-
That's the funniest thing you've posted for quite a while...!
(PS: I know my gang pick!)
Just think, NFNP, the entire time you've been wasting here, you could have been helping a kid... way to be a true example for us all!
:)
That should read "who has insulted"
Alaskaflower - I disagree that it is inappropriate to discuss personal things, however I do think that 1. Such encounters shouldn't be had by teenagers, and 2. If it is going to be discussed, it shouldn't be in public.
It is very scary what teens, and even young adults are seeing as "ok" behavior just because someone else has done it. Now that employers and schools have wised up and are googling people I hope that more teens and young adults will realize that posting pictures online of themselves doing illegal things is not a wise move.
Times up, offers off
My experiment has failed.
I hope one of you, inspite of my own short comings, will eventually see the importance of helping these kids through volunteering. Maybe one of you will volunteer just to get back at that jerk 'Not_From_North_Pole'. But if your going to harp on behavior and not be willing to help do something about it then you might as well go complain about the tide or something else that's just as unproductive.
If I can help somebody as I pass along,
if I can cheer somebody with a word or song,
if I can show somebody he's traveling wrong,
then my living will not be in vain.
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Nice song, but it was around long before MLK Jr.
Not from North Pole your time today would have been better spent volunteering or working with kids. Trying to bribe or lay a guilt trip on people doesn't work. People volunteer as a result of a personal decision. And yes befofre you ask what have you done, I spent thirty years working with drug addicted and mentally ill children and their families.
You are not a volunteer if you accept payment for a service! Volunteers provide a service because they WANT to, not for a $50 retainer fee! So you just cut your nose off to spite your face, Not from No.Pole!
The kids have to want to participate with these organizations. The organizations aren't doing squat for the kids that don't join-your 36 kids isn't even a drop in the bucket!
Children should be learning the golden rules at home-whether they are raised by their biological parents, step parents, grandparents, foster parents or adoptive parents. It starts at HOME, not at school or on the streets or anywhere else.
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Emily Dickinson, by the way.
NoFroNoPo, your 1st mistake was to assume that people don't already volunteer in some capacity. To those who do, offering money in the manner you did is a bit of an insult. People volunteer for many reasons, but money isn't usually one of them.
I speak from a little bit of experience here as I used to be a volunteer supervisor once upon a time. As a paid employee by one organization, as a volunteer myself at another. This of course doesn't mean I know everything & all reasons, but I've heard quite a few in my time.
Organizations want people who volunteer because they actually care, those people are priceless.
Dude, you'll never find a half eaten navajo taco in my posession!
First stop--every year. Tradition.
But aksunshine at 12:58 had a pretty funny suggestion...
The parents of those who are minors will be responsible for the injury (medical) of the security guard. As they should be. Pay the price of not knowing what, where, and who your offspring are running with. Many are good kids, no direction, and fall into 'peer pressure' which leads to 'guilt by association'. And then there are those who are just plain 'rotten to the core'. Makes you wonder...........is this the next group who is going to pay $2 for a phone call home?
Maybe we should have a new fair exhibt:" Punch A Punk!! " Just my thoughts!!
Daisies: "parents can only be held accountable for so much that there children do... are they not responsible for there own actions..."
I must disagree. Yes, children are responsible for their own actions, to varying degrees. But the parents are ALWAYS responsible for the actions of their children and teenagers. It is the parents' responsibility to teach their children, to instill values in them, to set boundaries for them, and to hold them responsible for breaking the rules. Children must learn that there are consequences for wrong actions, and they need to experience those consequences. And parents should be involved in their children's lives to whatever degree is necessary to provide proper supervision and direction. It's called "parenting."
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Ladies & Gentlemen
How far from the truth of the matter do you want to go?
Looking at the comments so far everyone pointing finger at this or that. Oh! Poor misguided youth (Dr. Spook, Dr Phil, Dr whoever) will come up with miracle cure for this. Right
Issue: Gangs in Fairbanks yes or no and why
Yes,
Why: Outsiders from Fairbanks, lucrative market for drugs, large military bases (gang influence). Gangster is role model figure.
Issue: Four Day Delay in Public Release Planned, yes or no and why
Yes,
Why: Public impact on fair attendance, Needed contact with Anchorage Gang task force in how to handle situation.
Issue: Age of individuals involved, under 18? Number of participants
No, many were over 18 including military individuals.
Participants were more like 40 to 50, may have been only 20 ring leaders.
Issue: Who responded and why
Fair Security; Called in backup did there job.
Local FPD; was on site at fairgrounds, Called in backup not trained to handle large confrontations (gangs) did there job.
State Police; Responded to call for backup did there job.
Military Police; Responded to call to deal with military members involved in incident.
Having recently lived in Anchorage I have seen first hand that no matter what the citizen or law enforcement officer attempts to do to curtail the gang problem it will fail. Why?
It is really simple, unless the judicial system of our country is changed to stop the revolving door policy regarding gang members it will not stop. So fix the judicial system and you will fix the gang problem along with making individuals responsible for there own actions. Any one want a million dollars for spilling a cup of hot coffee in their own lap?
NFNP you look the fool so far. It is great you volunteer but your arm must hurt from patting your back. If that is your reason for doing it you should step back and look into your motives.
As far as the punks at the fair it is all the more reason not to waste my hard earned dollars on what has become a joke.
Pat
NoFroNoPO, congrats, first inteligent comment you've made to date. The Blah Blah Blah that is.
I need to apologize for my staunch attitude earlier today. While what I wrote was the truth, and to some degree reflected my beliefs, the manner in which I stated it was from a place of irritation.
I understand NFNP's desire to get folks involved. I know my energy deficit.
I believe that providing support for others' kids is a serious issue; too much encourages those who aren't pulling their weight to pull less. Too little leaves kids swinging in the wind.
NFNP, I was on the freeway, traveling the interstates at age 13, and spent time in a juvenille facility for incorrigibility. I later found what I'll refer to as 'surrogate family' when those who'd failed were either dead, or otherwise incapacitated. Numerous decades later, I'm still incorrigible, but I've I survived. I've traveled, earned a masters degree, a B.A., done things that still excite me, even in memory.
I can recall persons stating that I was a problem child, and would end up dead at a young age. One Doc predicted I'd be in a wheel chair by age 35, due to physical issues. That should've occurred decades ago, but didn't. I kept going.
Sometimes what we seek to rescue folks from is simply a path that they need to walk. Sometimes we rescue them from things that mandate that intervention.
I think that it's a very serious matter to play in another's walk in life. It often presumes a level of wisdom that may or may not be there. Other times it's just providing a friend, or potential mentor. Sometimes it literally saves a life.
I took my kids to the fair tonight. My daughter pointed out 'stoner hill.' She knows many of those kids, and has her feet in a variety of groups at school, but has, nonetheless, been a very successful, goal-oriented, caring kid. I'm very proud of her. She also knows that 40 years ago, I was one of those kids.
No hooligans interupted my time with family tonight. But there was one boy I won't name, whose father left when he was young, whose mother found a person who took him under his wing in a time of pain. He's apparently a pretty well rounded kid now. It was cool to hear that story, to know that anger that can occur when folks who are supposed to love and provide for someone, instead leave, without answering many of the echoing & important questions that a kid can have.. And to see a rebound of that sort.
What sorts of damning things were predicted for him when he was acting out his pain? I can only guess.
I'm glad that I could rub the back of my boys' necks tonight, and love them, at the same time I could teach them more about sharing. I'm glad that I got to see my daughter in her element, as a member of a responsible team, spreading her wings, and succeeding.
That's where my efforts will be for a long time to come; for a lot of reasons. Some of which have to do with perceptions held by others of myself. But it may be the best, most important thing I ever do.
I'm, once again, 'out of here.'
what can we expect from the 2nd or 3rd generation of welfare recipients?
Put welfare recipients to work doing something (anything - whatever the person can do such as bring in a bag of garbage from the city streets to get your check) -oh, yeah, and drug test them before they get their monthly handout - and their self esteem will grow and their multiple children will become awed with their parents rather than the "gangsta" role models they have today.
revamp welfare and life would be better for us all...
Why are you all responding to Not from North Pole? Haven't you figured out he is just a Troll. He has no wife, no children and no life. Do you really think he volunteers for anything aside from the next beer run?
So far I’ve been called out of my mind, “not-from-north pole: should read: from-fantasy land (not the adult store) (aknative), insulting, “Now see if you can further insult others parenthood in such elementary fashion as you've thus far demonstrated” (Dirk), hell-bound, “We all know what road good intentions pave.....” (journeyon), arrogant, “You have a SERIOUS ego problem” (alaskaflower), pompous, “NFNP - Your self-righteousness isn't helping your misguided case any” (MarieBarr), wasteful, “Just think, NFNP, the entire time you've been wasting here, you could have been helping a kid...” (ffsgirl), something I’m not sure of, “So you just cut your nose off to spite your face, Not from No.Pole!” (goldstreamer), a fool, “NFNP you look the fool so far “ (pmcgraw), and stupid “NoFroNoPO, congrats, first inteligent comment you've made to date. The Blah Blah Blah that is” (icerider).
Fine, I’m O.K. with that. Why? Because apparently it takes a crazy, insulting, hell-bound, arrogant, pompous, wasteful, spiteful, foolish and stupid person like me to put their money and time where their mouth is, get out there in the real world, reach out to kids in trouble and try and do something for them.
And, I pray I don’t meet my demise and my children are left with the likes of you!
“Needless to say I would have drop-kicked them both into sometime next week had either come close to me” (MarieBarr).
“Remember the good ol days when "security guards" could crack bozos like this over the head with a flashlight.” (tatoohombre)
“put these uncivilized excuses in a work program that is mandatory for 6 months,no if ands or butts with no legal counsel” (sourdoughjoe)
“I say send in the dogs!! Like they do in Germany” (moose)
“Too bad they are all under 18 years old otherwise I could do more about it” (aknative)
“just string up all the lil punks by the gate and let people throw things at them. like bottles, half eaten navajo tacos, fried chicken and gyros. and watch them cry like the lil B****** they are” (jdub911)
In the service of children,
Not_From_North_Pole
IUR & Dirk,
Thank you.
I've read so many comments on this discussion and have only 1 thing to add. When it comes to poor parenting skills, should we look also at the community and the lack of family skill building programs? I have met children that have only 1 or 2 mentors in their lives, some none. Most are lacking the family bond or guidance that they need. Seeking a bond with others of their own age group to feel wanted or appreciated (although, not a good place to learn skills). I have met parents that don't show the same bonding, or parenting skills that are needed when children reach that independant stage. I think the more the parents learn the better it is for everyone concerned. Lack of programs only will further problems of this nature for future generations.
How many hundreds of kids attended the fair and did not cause one bit of trouble. Here's to these kids who showed that there are more good apples in the barrel than the few who caused trouble. It was fun just watching them have fun.
Mmmm.. craving the ears of buttered delicious corn. Want to try the shrimp that everyone has been talking about. MMM... I'm hungry.
Just to put things in perspective,
If it wasn't for kids baking, canning, knitting, quilting, writing, drawing, painting, growing, raising, performing, racing, singing, playing, running, building, carving, picking, dancing, printing, quilting, riding, leaping and jumping it wouldn't be a fair at all.
Just out of curiosity, since the cops are there already, can they do something about the cost of food, rides, goods, etc? Prices at the fair are a crime.
hahaha... I liked that TAC
You guys do realize it's impossible to drop kick someone into next week right? It's more of a figure of speech than a threat. I also don't advocate violence against children, just teens that are participating in behavior that is threatening towards me (or are involving me in their violent behavior). I also didn't propose violence against all misbehaving youths, if I had taken any action in my situation it would have been purely as a self-defense measure.
I have been an active volunteer with both adults and children until health problems necessitated I stop. I do truly think that children and teens would benefit more from assistance to the whole family rather than independent help. Helping parents be good parents and form strong families is going to help children grow up to be good parents and have their own strong families rather than putting a band-aid on the problem.
Any changes that need to be made need to be made in a multi pronged approach, assisting whole families while getting kids into constructive activities.
I figured, you seem sensible enough to know drop kicking smoe one into next week isn't physically possible, but NFNP seemed to think I was serious because he used me as an example of the violence against children.
What I was getting from NFNP's comments was that comments such as yours depicted a sort of violence towards children whether they be horrible creatures or not.
I saw the comment "drop kicking them into next week" as adding fuel to the bunch who wanted to use violence as their means to end rebellious behavior. Your comment (no matter how ridiculous it really is) put you in the general category of others who thought it was ok to hurt these kids.
Suggestions after making a statement: State your sarcasm, that you are kidding, or you are actually pretty serious about what you are commenting about.
I'm actually quite surprised that anyone took that even remotely seriously. 1. Its incredibly hard, if not impossible to drop kick someone larger than yourself, and 2. "next week" is not a realistic place to drop kick someone.
I don't believe in physical violence against anyone "just because" or because you disagree with them, and the only way I would have physically harmed either of those teens is if my safety was being immediately threatened.
Pretty soon you'll be reading about these "thugs" getting pulled over for riding a lawn mower in north pole after midnight and getting charged with DWI. Just wait....
KRiver, yeah I'm waiting alright...waiting for you to SHUT UP!!!!!
Valkyrie!
Oooooo I'm so scared i think my bunny slippers just went to hide!!
Ummm....OK? I think the only way to settle this is to have your gang meet my gang. We'll meet on South Cushman, THEN we'll see who wears thee bunny slippers around here!
This is exactly why I didn't stay in the lower 48. My young son, traffic and heat. saying that I have to say this is the worse summer I've ever seen and I've been here since 1967. Bring on global warming.
We run a booth at the fair that gets 90% of its traffic from kids under 18 years old. MOST of them have been incredibly awesome, and the others just seem to be suffering from boredom and overdoses of sugar. We've been giving kids something to do (for free) that peaks their interest, and we don't treat them as hooligans when they walk in. We haven't had any fights, and we haven't had any merchandise stolen.
I'd also like to note that "Joel's Place" has been placing teens in volunteer jobs all summer. Some are at the fair. It's programs like those that are important to note, because they give kids something to do that's constructive and worth their time. They've also enabled me to meet some incredible kids that might otherwise be ignored.
I would love to help with some of these organizations. I feel hesitant when I wonder if these children with problems would somehow impact my own children in a negative way. Can anyone share their own experience about how your own children managed your volunteering with children with problems? I would like to know the positives and negatives. Thank you.
You want to help these troubled kids? Do what we have always done; bring them into your home and into your life. Get to know them, feed them, talk with them, help them. My husband and I raised four and wherever we lived, we were always taking in kids. In each child's face, we would see our own child; so deserving of love and respect. We weren't rich by any means; just aware that in our home, in our midst, we might make a little bit of difference in that child's life. I have taken children to some of the organizations listed in other comments and those were good places with good folks doing what they could. I commend those people but the best that I, personally could offer those kids who were in dire need of help and direction was to make them part of my life.
Will all the adults who were perfect teenagers please stand up.
Actually Free, there are a lot of people who never got into any trouble in their teens. I was too busy working, doing sports & homework personally. Knowing my parents actually would follow through on grounding me for life didn't hurt either. =)
There are some churches in town that are full of incredible kids that never lack for things to do. A great environment for kids to spend time in.
Here are some things I have witnessed teenagers in my own church do just within the past few weeks:
deliver furniture for a family moving into a new apartment
decorate for a church wedding
cook and prepare and serve food for a wedding reception
carry babies around and tend small children so their parents could be involved in their own volunteer efforts
teach kids' classes for the addictions program
tend the nursery for the above and also for church services
paint rooms in the church to make it nice for the wedding
attend teen evening meetings for a week, playing soccer and games and eating pizza and having lots of fun
go out into the community to invite new kids to their meetings
go downriver by boat to a remote teen camp
care for children riding the buses to church, and feed them with their own money because their parents don't bother to
visit those same kids and call them on the phone
volunteer at the fair
go door-to-door inviting children to Vacation Bible School
help in Vacation Bible School
decorate their buses for the parade
pass out literature at the parade
encourage other teens who are having problems
give clothing to other teens who are in need
And these are just the things I have personally seen them involved in.
There is plenty for kids to do. It's just a matter of getting them involved. Busy kids are more likely to stay out of trouble. Once they get a taste of helping others, they are hooked on that lifestyle.
They also have a genuine desire to share their lifestyle with others.
What an idiotic thing to do! If you're going to have a gang-related "rumble" to use old terminology, why go to a public place that is usually crowded with other people, when you can drive for 20 minutes and be out in the middle of nowhere? What a bunch of MORONS!
Not that I condone such behavior, but really, it's not an intelligent thing to do at the fair. It's like trying to steal a cookie from the jar while your mother is watching you. You're going to get spanked. Duh.
FreeDarfur - I doubt anyone was a "perfect" teenager, but I bet there were/are many who are much more mature and are contributing positively to society than those involved in the fair fracas.
In my early 20's I was thanked by my parents for being such a good teenager. They were older when they had myself and my younger brother, and didn't have a good grasp on what was considered normal behavior for teens at the time. They were upset that I broke curfew a few times while at a friends house with her parents there. Then they got my younger brother who partook in the drinking, drugs, and sexual escapades of the other teens.
During a discussion about this with my mother she asked me if his behavior was common when I was in high school with my peers, and upon telling her it was, she promptly thanked me and told me that she was sorry my father and her had been so hard on me because in perspective I was a great teen.
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Coldblooded: "I think I'll take my family somewhere we can actually enjoy ourselves and not have to worry about the scum of Interior Alaska ruining our evening"
Wow, Coldblooded. Of all the people who have posted on here, your comments are the closest I've seen to fitting your own description...
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