State officials tour flood damage; water still rising in some areas
Originally published Saturday, August 2, 2008 at 3:26 p.m.
Updated Saturday, August 2, 2008 at 11:26 p.m.
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2008 Fairbanks Flood
Here are some scenes of the flooding in the Fairbanks and Nenana areas. If you have pictures of the flooding, send them to internet@newsminer.com and we'll post them online.
FAIRBANKS — Tanana River floodwaters from Salcha to Nenana were stable or subsiding Saturday while water continued to rise downstream of Nenana, putting the village of Old Minto in jeopardy.
State officials began surveying the flood damage, and while hopes were high, no one is guaranteeing the worst is over.
A flood warning remains in effect for the Tanana River from Fairbanks to Manley Hot Springs through noon today. A flood advisory remains in effect for North Pole and Moose Creek.
Flooded areas include Salcha, Nenana and a few West Fairbanks neighborhoods. The flooding has been described as the worst since 1967.
Officials at the Fairbanks North Star Borough received a report Saturday that one home in the Moose Creek area about 20 miles southeast of Fairbanks had water inside it. Officials are monitoring the area closely, asking anyone with new flood waters entering their home to call 459-1213.
Railroad travel remained suspended because of flooding on the tracks in Nenana. The flooding also has washed out some of the rail bed, according to the Alaska Railroad Corp.
Borough officials downgraded the number of homes affected by the flooding from 500 to 300, according to a news release.
The Alaska commissioner of military and veterans affairs, along with the state director of homeland security and emergency management, toured flooded areas by helicopter, stopping in Nenana to meet with city and tribal leaders. A news conference in Fairbanks followed.
John Madden, the emergency management director, said the state’s disaster cabinet met Friday and endorsed borough Mayor Jim Whitaker’s disaster declaration. The declaration, which would provide money for flood recovery, is awaiting the governor’s approval.
“There is not a slough or an oxbow or a tributary of that river that is not filled with water,” Madden said of flooding in and around the Tanana River.
In Nenana, where the weather service reported the river crested at about 14 and a half feet Saturday, the basement at Coghill’s General Store remained full of water.
“It looks like it’s holding right now,” Ty Duggar said in the early afternoon. He manages the store with his wife.
“There’s a lot of standing water in town everywhere,” Duggar said. “We’ve sold a lot of rubber boots. We’re just about out of rubber boots and hip boots.”
The roads were mostly passable, although some were still blocked off, Duggar said.
Most people remained in their homes, he said, although a few town elders moved to higher ground for the sake of convenience.
The town’s mood was growing weary, Duggar added.
“The uniqueness has worn off and people are getting tired of it,” he said.
The Nenana health clinic was moved again, this time to the town library. The clinic was initially moved to the fire station because the road to its original location was impassable, health clinic coordinator Melissa Dumeny said.
“We’re hoping this will be the last location until we have access again to the original clinic,” Dumeny said.
The shipyard was under 3 feet of water, and ground water in Nenana was rising, creating ponds, according to the weather service. Cabins downstream of Nenana were flooded or surrounded by water.
The weather service predicted the Tanana River’s crest will move downriver to Manley Hot Springs through today. The town of Manley Hot Springs, where about 70 people live, was not expected to flood although water levels in the area will be high, a statement from the weather service said. Water was within inches of inundating the village of Old Minto, the statement read.
Water covering the lowlands upstream of Nenana will mean a slow fall for the Tanana River, according to the weather service. The river is expected to remain above flood stage until today and probably longer.
In Salcha, Lindsey Viltrakis said floodwaters continued to subside.
“For the most part, it looks a whole lot better than it did,” she said.
The college student said her family was still recovering from a flood in May when this one hit.
“It doesn’t look like it did anything to the brand new flooring that we just put down,” she said.
In Fairbanks, Jesse Perkins said most roads off Perkins Drive in the Rosie Creek area were passable, although a full-sized pickup truck is recommended in a few areas.
Perkins was standing in his yard, which was still covered in about a foot of water. The flooding damaged Perkins’ furnace and water pump.
“I’m lucky my 500-gallon fuel tank didn’t float off,” he said.
The Tanana River was still backing into the lower Chena River, but flooding in that area was minor, according to the weather service.
At least an inch of rain was predicted for the Tanana and Salcha river basins through Tuesday. The impact should be minimal, according to a statement from the borough.
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers raised the flood gates about 5 a.m. Saturday, meaning the flow of water on the Chena River is no longer being restricted and diverted into a flood channel.
The borough is making drinking water available to flood victims in Salcha at the fairgrounds and in Fairbanks.
A tank is being delivered this weekend to the Chena Pump Road pullout before Rosie Creek Road, a borough news release stated. Also, the borough announced that water testing sample kits are on order.
Updated information on the flood will be available at the borough’s booth in the Borealis Pavilion at the Tanana Valley Fair. Information also available on the borough’s Web page at www.co.fairbanks.ak.us.
Community Discussion
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Looks like Fairbanks is doing it's flood cycle thing again. Be nice if it was just a little more predictable. Last bad flood was what 1969 or was that 1967? Downtown used to be riddled with FLOOD level marks are they still there? I wonder how this flood rates with that one.
GOD BLESS YOU FAIRBANKS. GODSPEED IN ALL BLESSINGS.
QUICK!!! GET OUT YOUR MARKERS BEFORE IT GOES DOWN!!! LOL! 1967 must have skipped over that. I'd be interested in the comparison.
alaskansheilah-
There is no god and he therefore did not invent caps lock. If you want to wish Fairbanksans well, please do so using logic and lowercase letters.
"The town's mood if growing weary" ???
maybe I should apply for a job as an editor...
The last flood, per the question asked, was in '67.
What seems somewhat worrisome to me is even after the floodgates were opened we still saw some pretty high water in the Chena flowing through town. Makes me wonder if something more needs to be done in addition to the Flood Control Project and, if so, what that might be.
Dobie-
Don't they close, not open, the gates at the Chena Flood Control Project/ Dam? Doesn't a basic understanding of hydrology dictate that you can't expect an immediate change in the level of water "flowing through town" once the flood control project is put to use?
Why can't we have an intelligent discussion about engineering and hydrology here? Please, someone...?
I`M USUALLY RITE- dose the word CAP LOCK "ANAL" RING A BELL?
In the meantime---Nenana flood waters continue to rise and there is no new news about this situation? WTF? My sister and her family were just evacuated this afternoon...More rain projected.....In case nobody has noticed........this is going from bad to worse for the small villages downriver of fairbanks.....
Nope, not at all. Aren't you the one who emailed me to call me the c-word? What a nice, average guy you are....
I thought they lowered gates from what i read in the newsminer the other day. Does anyone know if the lowered them?
Tony-
"Meanwhile, rising water in Fairbanks, especially the Perkins Landing and Rosie Creek areas, caused the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to activate the Chena Flood Control project at approximately 3:30 a.m. Friday."
http://www.newsminer.com/news/2008/aug/0...
Would you like to try to have an intelligent conversation with me hybrid? Let's give it a shot. What can you tell me about flooding? If you say something intelligent, I promise not to insult you.
Imususallywrong-easy... take that aggression out on something that actually matters. Like figuring out how engineering and hydrology really matter to the average joe
GOD SPEAKING...SORRY IMUALLYWRONG I FORGOT MY LOGIC
Uh... in case you haven't noticed, the Tanana and Salcha rivers are flooding. Dobie seemed to think it mattered, but he didn't even bother to get the facts straight. That's what annoys me...people who are lazy about understanding science and engineering, but expect it to work for them when they need it and malign it when they *think* it's not working they way it should.
Crap, I don’t care too much about economics, but I make sure I understand basic finance, accounting *and* economics so I can follow what’s going on in the world. People, for the most part, annoy me, but I try to understand sociology and psychology in order to figure out where they’re coming from. Should I not expect that others try to understand the world a little better? Is that really too much to ask? If people aren’t going to try to understand flooding now, when it affects our community, are they ever? Really? Do people just want to be victims?
And, sockeye, god and logic don’t mix well.
IMUSUALLYWRONG- LOOK AT BLOG #3 AND YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THE GOD/ LOGIC THING. You sound like a disgruntled college junior majoring in geology with a minor in 1990's angst.
Still don't get it, sockeye. You'll have to elaborate.
You're pretty close, but not quite. Geology, yes. Angst, probably. Junior, no, my partygirl days ended in 1994.
I was refering to the god/logic comment in your reply to alaskansheliah in the third blog down (look up).
Have to say I know little about the Chena River Flood Gates. But was always under the impression that they were opened when there was a flood not closed (to allow excess water go somewhere else besides flood Fairbanks/NorthPole). Please correct me if Im wrong??
Also, what happens if North Pole is flooded as the water table is only 6-10 feet.
The gates are closed and the flow is reduced just like your facet then the water backs up behind the dike when it gets so high it dumps over a wall into the Tanana. by the time it gets that high they will open them again. in this instance. unless it keeps raining for another couple weeks.
Yeah, I got that Re: my first comment. But, what do you mean? I can guess, but I'd like it so much better if you explained it.
I didn't know much about the project until it became news. The gates are closed to divert water into the Tanana. Pretty good explanation: http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/AS...
What do you mean about NoPo's flooding and water table? I think it's pretty low elsewhere (in Fairbanks). It certainly is on my property even when it's not been raining for a week.
This is why I'd love for a hydrologist to join the discussion.
I mean water table--> high
Sockeye, you are correct. The gates to the flood channel are opened when the river gets too high to allow the excess water to flow into the flood channel. I guess we now know why Imusuallyright didn't choose Imalwaysright as a screen name. I will be looking for her apology to you and dobieman, but from the tone of her posts, I don't expect to ever see it.
t., don't get so riled up about the Fairbanks Ignorati. They're a permanent fixture of our landscape, I'm afraid. We have a wonderful diversity of people here, an incredible mixture of people from all sorts of backgrounds. That said, we have a decent representation of folks you'd wish lived elsewhere, and whatever anyone's own individual background is, I think most would be able to agree to that statement. I.e., we've got to figure out how to live with all of us, even those we wish weren't here at all.
Life in the new frontier. Whatcha gonna do? Gotta love it, because there's really nothing else you can do about it, other than move away.
I think dobieman brought up a legit concern.
The Chena River Lakes Flood Control Project was built 40 years ago. There's been a *heck* of a lot more residential and commercial real estate developed in the areas surrounding Fairbanks since that time. Maybe we ought to really consider developing another flood control project, upstream of North Pole, and hopefully, upstream of Salcha.
Maybe we will, maybe we won't develop additional flood control projects for our area. But I think this option deserves at least some real consideration.
the flood project is not 40 years old.
Mike, will you please post a citation for your comment so I can apologize?
Oh, LadyNYC. I forgot all about the "Fairbanks Ignorati". I see your point, but how can folks not try to understand what's affecting our community? Is it really just a matter of "sit back and let it happen"?
IUR- This doesnt seem to be the right place to get into a "god" conversation Probly not a real concern but if lets say the water table is 4 feet in parts of North Pole and the flood gates (that were built 40 years ago) diverted thru North Pole for whatever reason, wouldnt that put nopo under water
You'll have to talk to sheilah about god. He/She brought it up.
I don't think the project is designed to divert water through NoPo. I don't know too much about soils and saturation rates, but it seems like in your scenario, infiltrating rainwater and saturation might more of a concern.
Seriously, a hydrologist would be *so* helpful here.
1979 - Moose Creek Dam and Floodway are operational; final grades constructed, groin to protect sheet pile sill in place, and
shaping of the borrow pits to form Chena Lake is completed. An additional 222 foot segment of Tanana levee is constructed and
work on Interior Drainage Channels B & C is underway.
Nope get your fingers out it ain't 40 years old and the dike wasn't done till the 80's
I'm done for the evening. I'll check for your insults tomorrow.
one more note:
Those gates have been lowered as briefly as six hours and for as long as three weeks, Schaake said. In 27 years of project operations, this will be the 20th time the gates have been used to regulate the river.
Imusuallyright...Do you have a hobby or a pet? If you don't, maybe you should consider the idea...It might save all of us from your negativity and scientific propaganda. I apologize, that was not nice. I really do enjoy your posts when I am bored and have nothing better to do. I am thankful for having a good life and it makes me realize that others do not have it as good as I do! Anyway, if you want to know about flooding, read about what Noah would do and get back with us, ok? I mean, it's just a story passed down thru the ages, what harm could be done by the fable anyway? I very surprised that you are not telling us about flooding considering your knowledge about everything else in this world!!! As far as an apology to anyone, I won't be waiting by the phone or anything, but instead of reading fancy writing that keeps a reader occupied with its word selection and placement, let's actually hear something smart and valid...you know, scientific. Maybe you can tell us something about what you do for a living so you can win us all over...How about that? Ok, I am getting bored...Let's see what you got....Thanks for your input Mike...Hey, I used to work with you on-base in the 90's...any guesses????
And has Saved us millions-
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/AS......
Since contractors finished the flood control project in 1979, it has saved more money in damage to Fairbanks homes and businesses than the one-quarter billion spent on its construction, Schaake said.
I think this is debatable.
Ok, I'm just acting as a messenger here, so y'all be sure to line up to shoot me in the butt, ok? Really, I'm ok with that. I'm expecting it already. This is only Fairbanks, after all . . . :)
First, maybe we're using/interpreting phrases differently. I understand a flood gate to be open when it allows full flow, i.e., when it is raised. I understand a flood gate to be closed when it restricts, diverts flow, i.e., when it's lowered. I think a few postings on this thread kinda meant the same thing, but used different terminology. It was my understanding - from newsminer articles - that the floodgates were lowered a day or two ago in order to restrict flow into the Chena, but then raised again today since the "threat" of flooding had decreased.
Okie doke, we got that one out of the way.
mit - the Chena River Lakes Flood Control project was inspired by the flooding that occured in 1967, 41 years ago. You might technically be right - the flood control project might not be 40 years old at this point. Maybe only 39 or 38 years old. A trivial point, however, if you ask me. My real point was that this project was built in a time that this entire area was nowhere near as developed as it is today. And due to the current extent of development, it might well be worth it to at least consider an additional flood control project somewhere upstream of Salcha.
Imusuallyright . . . usually, I tend to agree with you. Not this time, though. I think there was just a mix up in definitions. I think you, and a number of other people posting to this thread confused flood gates "open/closed" with flood gates "raised/lowered." Honest mistake, if you ask me. Seems like we could all stand to be precise about our definitions, and make sure they're clear, and without potential for misunderstanding. We'd get a lot further in our discussions if we did so.
Mike_S, you might actually be wrong about Imusuallyright. Yepperdoo, this person's full of piss and vinegar. As well as tons of integrity. From what I've seen of Imusually's postings, this person has no qualms at all to admitting a mistake once shown that there was a misunderstanding.
Bullets and arrows aimed at my butt right now? Should I be ducking for cover?
Also, IUR - I'd say that most folks are actually trying real hard to figure out what's going on now with these floods, since they are directly, and substantially impacted by them. I don't think anyone directly impacted by these event is "sitting back and letting it happen."
Ok geees look at the history.
http://www.poa.usace.army.mil/co/chena/c...
It will explain how the damn dam works too!
Ok guys...I'm not siding with anyone in this little snark fest but according to the DNM article from July 30th the gates are LOWERED into the river. http://newsminer.com/news/2008/jul/30/ri...
"The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers plans to lower the gates on the Chena Flood Control Project to restrict the Chena River flow, project manager John Schaake said."
Now, unless there are two sets of gates it's looks like Imusuallyright is potentially right.
Nice link MIT. Now how do we ensure a sunny summer next year?
"Little snark fest" . . . *love* the phrase! Thanks, MB.
To follow up with the article you posted, here's another, from today, "State officials tour flood damage; water still rising in some areas"
"The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers raised the flood gates about 5 a.m. today, meaning the flow of water on the Chena River is no longer being restricted and diverted into a flood channel."
Between these two articles, I take it to mean that when the gates are lowered, flood waters are diverted. When they are raised again, there's no longer imminent threat, and flows are restored.
Maybe we could all try to say what it is we really mean: flows diverted (due to flood control measures); flows are normal (no flood control necessary).
IUR had the right idea . . . nighty night, folks. For now.
All I have to say is that this flooding event is a direct result of global warming..and I have the facts to prove it!
I can tell you exactly what the weather will be like next summer!
You just have to wait till next fall for me to tell you.
IUR: Missed you. Yes, they're dumber. No, it's not me. Wish I knew who it was though...
Cripes. Where were you two hours ago?
I really feel for the people who are being impacted by the flooding.
But my garden really sucks now. And I am pissed that summer is nearly over and there has so few nice days.
Can the mayor get emergency funding for building a giant sun lamp for the winter. Maybe I shouldn't suggest that...Whitaker just might do it.
Imusuallyright, why are you so intolerant? What harm can be done in a good wish of "GOD BLESS YOU FAIRBANKS. GODSPEED IN ALL BLESSINGS"? If you don't believe in God, it is your right, that's fine. But if a person believes in God, that is their right too. Why are you so bitter? Please be more tolerant.
Sorry, I thought everyone was kidding about how the flood control system works...I would have told you...anyone ever thought about taking a ride out there and looking? For those who live by the rules of math and science, sorry, I do not know the exact miles to the dam, nor do I know the pressure exerted on the structure at any given time, but I am pretty sure you can figure out what the big fields are for and what happens when the gates close...Enjoy!!!
Someone asked a question and instead of getting an answer they where told to go look it up and treated less favorable than others would want to be treated themselves. Its obvious you dont believe in God, or kindness or tolerance or educating with your profound wisdom. Ever see the episode on SNL about the computer guy?
There is a reason after the 67 flood, they told people to move up into the hills. Just like Anchorage built where they told them not to build after the earthquake, there are areas in Fairbanks that should not be built on. Let's hope these people have time to clean up the mess before the snow arrives. Remember, was it 92, the snow arrived the first week of September and stuck around. Not to mention the October quaker that shut done the road to Anchorage.
Number one rule in Fairbanks, expect the unexpected and be prepared for anything.
Wow. If you'd read the thread, you'd notice that I engaged in courteous discourse with those who were actually asking questions and were, like me, actually trying to understand the situation. I do not have kindness and tolerance for those who opine without considering context...griping for griping's sake, if you will.
LadyNYC is correct. It is likely those who are not affected by the flooding who aren't really thinking too hard about it.
Like sockeye said, this is no place for a discussion about god. So why is it ok for sheilah to bring it up? What good does false wellwishing do? His/her caplocked empty sentiment will have no impact on the flooding or the people of Fairbanks.
pack of wolves...all the lady did was wish the town well...such wonderful, caring people...
If I built my house on pilings because it was in a flood zone I would not be asking the government for help when it flooded. Just my 2 cents.
A little threatened, are we, hybrid? Remember when I challenged you to an intelligent conversation? (That was 7:27.)
Lowering the caliber of conversation is easy (10:47 today). Raising it is difficult, time consuming, and frustrating.
Is there anything about flooding that you'd like to discuss, or are you just obsessed with me?
Imusuallyriled: Have you tried Midol? Might help cure your symptoms.
Dr. C.
It's like a limbo contest around here. How low will you boys go?
How exactly this this line of discussion about flooding.....?
Creiglist - Free water for dry-cabin
http://anchorage.craigslist.org/zip/7789...
Hahahaha, that is awesome. Hopefully with the weather today the water will go down quickly.
Alaska DEC website includes a pamphlet/emergency plan for checking septic after flooding or high ground water.
www.dec.state.ak.us/spar/perp/heat/hhot_... - 2007-08-23
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