Teens sentenced to nine years for robbery, assault
Published Saturday, April 26, 2008
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Stumble It!Superior Court Judge Mark Wood sentenced two teenagers, 17 and 18, to nine years in prison Friday for hiding in a sporting goods store and then robbing the place, roughing up a store manager and stealing a car.
Larry Ashten Pierce II, who will turn 19 in eight days, and Isaiah Parker spent the night at the Frontier Outfitters store on May 4 according to authorities.
The next morning, they beat up manager Curtis O’Leary and stole cash and thousands of dollars worth of revolvers, semi-automatic handguns and assault rifles.
Authorities said they left the store in a late-model Oldsmobile after carjacking the owner, Ashley Thompson, a college student who had just dropped off her mother at work.
The teenagers were charged as adults with 11 felonies. A plea agreement reduced the charges to two, robbery and assault.
Lawyers at the Rabinowitz Courthouse spent most of the sentencing hearing arguing over the teenagers’ rehabilitation potential.
According to comments in court, Pierce comes from a home with educated, supportive parents but he has substance abuse problems and was suspended from Lathrop High School for reportedly bringing alcohol to school. Parker is a longtime ward of the state who suffers from mental health problems.
Both have obtained general equivalency diplomas since their arrests last year. Pierce has worked with his mother and leaders in the black community to find a mentor. Parker has attended Alcoholics Anonymous meetings.
Authorities suspect that Parker belongs to the Gangster Disciples, a street gang based in Chicago known to distribute crack cocaine. The Gangster Disciples is one of three street gangs known to have a presence in Fairbanks, prosecutor Elizabeth Crail said.
Crail suggested Parker robbed the store in order to prove himself as a gang leader.
“He is fully aware of the various signs and symbols that go along with that,” she said. “This is not (Los Angeles). But we don’t want Fairbanks to become like L.A. or even like Anchorage.”
Parker’s social worker and a clinical psychologist, Mike Hopper, testified on his behalf.
Parker’s attorney asked Hopper, who specializes in troubled boys, to review his case.
Parker is impulsive and might not have a firm grasp on reality, Hopper said. The psychologist found Parker’s claim that he is a gang leader with hundreds of subordinates to be highly unlikely.
But Parker’s history shows he responds well when placed in nurturing environments, such as special education classes, Hopper said.
“For what it’s worth, this is not a kid to give up on,” Hopper said.
Brenda Webber, Pierce’s mother, said getting arrested saved her troubled son’s life.
“He’s turned himself around and I’m very proud of him for that,” Webber said. “I don’t make excuses for what he did. It was wrong. The person who did this is not the person I raised. We’re not basically bad people.”
Both teenagers apologized for the crime, which still haunts Thompson and her mother, Heidi. Thompson missed school because of the carjacking and failed some classes, she said.
She still drives the Oldsmobile, which was returned to her.
“Every day, I’m afraid something else might happen,” Thompson said.
Heidi Thompson said she is afraid to go out alone. The family’s income has dropped because she gave up her second job for fear of working alone at night, she said.
Heidi Thompson hurt her shoulder and her knee jumping on the back of one of the carjackers.
The incident traumatized the family’s dog, too, Heidi Thompson said. The dog witnessed the carjacking.
“I’m very afraid,” Heidi Thompson said. “It’s not just, ‘Oh, yeah. I got held up. Get over it. Move on.’ This has very dramatically changed my life.”
Wood told the teenagers that adolescence is no excuse for their crimes. Pierce and Parker had initially planned to burglarize the sporting goods store but changed their plan after tripping an alarm multiple times, drawing police and causing the teenagers to hide until morning.
Wood added six years of suspended jail time, which the teenagers are subject to serve if they get into trouble during their seven years of probation.
The judge recommended that Pierce and Parker, who have been in jail since May, be transferred to a youthful offender program in Seward.
He ordered them to avoid contact with gang members.
“Yeah, you screwed up,” Wood said. “It doesn’t have to ruin your lives. You’re going to have to learn to rise above your circumstances.”
Community Discussion
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These two did a terrible thing, they got the appropriate sentence and will have plenty of time to think about the mistakes they make.
It troubles me that another armed robber, who has multiple previous felonies, gets away with a sentence of less then a year.
Something's rotten in this town and its starting to stink...
Time for a new hunting season in Fairbanks....GaNg MeMbeRs!
Why a plea agreement? These two were caught red handed, and should be doing 20 not 9! And they should never again be out in Fairbanks without eyes on them. Ever. And as for the armed robber bikebuilder alludes too, the same applies to him. Judge Wood and the prosecutor need to consider other people's safety far far ahead of any 'rehabilitation' for these creeps. As far as I'm concerned they gave up their rights to live in the community for good when they committed violent crimes that deeply affected others. Put them in a box and keep them there.
....and I agree with Sherry29. At the very least, if it can be shown that any of them is a gang member, they should never see daylight again.
i'm with sherry29, as do a fair amount of other people in this town!
wannabe gangbangers would give it a second thought if they knew good people would stand up to them with the god given right of using deadly force to protect life, property and liberty, and all those who are the weak bleeding hearts can go back to the hoods of ameriKa and live their lives, hmmmm
You’re talking about killing kids, kids who have a shot at becoming productive members of society. You can talk all you want about putting them away for life but that’s not one of the sentencing options, sooner or later they will be returned to society. Think of the situation using logic instead of emotion. Nobody likes that our kids are capable of this sort of thing, but talking about how they need to be shot or caged for the rest of their life is fantasy, it’s just venting and it’s counterproductive. Unless you do in fact have some plan to kill juvenile offenders in which case you should by all means post that because I’m sure law enforcement would find that very interesting.
I remember driving by when all this was going down. It was pretty scary! I felt so scared for the manager!
It is a shame that our society allows these two criminals to live after what they have done. They should be executed along with all their like minded accomplices who think it is acceptable to take what is not theirs, or for whitch they did not work and earn by hounest and respectful means toward our fellow man. As for rehabilitation, why should we suffer for their stupidity? They should have learned right from wrong a long time ago. And to hurt someone else during their acts of crime.......no criminal should ever get a third chance.
They'll get NO sympathy whatsoever from me. Zero. Nil. I save that for their victims. If they did the crime they need to go away for a looong time. Period. And if it involved a gun it needs to be a permanent vacation, since they have proven themselves to be threats to other people's lives. I don't want *mine* or anyone else's ended by some punk with a gun and melonful of gangsta aspirations!
And law enforcement taking an interest? Very funny! Opinions are not illegal in this country. And when judges come up for retention, my opinion, and vote, always reflects how thoroughly they stomp on criminals like these. My bet is that there are *alot* of people about town who do the same thing.....
RDPool, I’m not really sure how you figure we suffer if an offender is rehabilitated. I believe the opposite is true.
Yeah,I agree with the Christian (sherry29) we should kill them!
[How typical... No compassion whatsoever being displayed.]
Oh, wait, that's not very loving and kind is it?
Seems to be very Christian though... *shakes head*
Funny to see that once she posted that, several people followed with "Yeah - we should KILL these two kids who robbed a store."
...and life sentences a fantasy? No, sorry Scrabble, you're just plain totally mistaken. I just think it should be much more vigorously applied to all felons who have threatened someone else's life. They stop being a danger to others only when they're GONE, and I will always vote this way. So, I suspect, will many others.....
If assault and robbery is punishable by life in prison I stand corrected. Or are you just pulling that out of your... hat?
Just so there is no confusion, the start of my last post was pure sarcasm.
I do not believe that we should be killing kids who commit crimes, short of cold blooded murder (and even then I'm not sure that they need to die - but that's another discussion).
9 years seems like a reasonable sentence to me.
I agree with the first statment about the previous Armerd Robber getting 9 months, what the hell. I agree that these two needed to be put away for a long time, but so does every other Armed Robber, there needs to be some consistence, in the sentencing of these dangerous felons. Hopefully when the Subway robber gets picked up again (which he probably will based on the past) he will get the RIGHT sentence this time. I think that everyone who does the crime especially in this magnitude needs to do the time. Plain and Simple end of story.
loosmoose --
I don't think that it is legal to use deadly force to protect property. Life yes, property no.
I could be wrong on that though. Does anybody know the actual laws?
bikebuilder & Winter_n_AK --
You do know that the war on (some) drugs is responsible for that guy only getting 9 months for some 20+ felonies, right?
Apparently, he rolled on someone big in our town (coke dealer, I've heard). Thus, odds are that he won't make it long...
Isn't this war on our own soil against our own citizens grand?
Read it again and sooner or later you'll get it, scrabble.....
And in my opinion armed robbery should be potentially life, and this is how I and many others vote. You don't think being viewed as "soft on crime" is political suicide for no reason at all do you? And that sentences tend to get longer over time? If room is needed in prison for these wastes-of-space, then some pot-smokers can be released; they're only dangerous if you're a bag of cheetos. To me the only question is "did this person do the crime or not. If this question is answered yes (as in these cases), the only get-out-of-jail criterion should be "is this person still physically capable of violence?" Until that answer is "no" I have no problem at all with them staying in sunny Arizona's prisons.
And all of these guys are doggone lucky some armed alaskan didn't happen by as they were committing their crimes or they might well be in boxes in the ground instead alive in cages; all legal and proper.
Newsreader,
Im sure he did try to role on someone BIG in our town but from what I have heard he rolled on a DEAD guy, how is that supposed to be a war on drugs when he has already been put in the ground. The war on drugs, thats a cool concept but they are never going to go away. Someone somewhere will always be able to get their hands on something. Its the way it is in the world VERY sad but true. I think that possibly the better solution would be for him to still be in prison but that is my opinion. I just think that justice was served in this case, and in the Skinner case but not the most recent Subway robber, ( I dont even remember his name.
But Newsreader I totally agree with you!
It costs a large amount of money to imprison a person. Way more than it should. Rehabilition costs our community lots of money (real money and failed rehabilitation - continues the crimes). That is sad. Prison should be a place that one never wants to return to......ever. If you were unable to grasp right from wrong while growing up, than why should any hounest person suffer one iota from the ignorant perpatrator...?. Bleading hearts who tout rehabilitation are often scewed at just how much it cost us all to pore so much into these broken & roten soles. Bleading hearts want to keep the rotten fruit when it should be gotten rid of. People should reap ten times what they sew. I agree with Sherry29, she is right on! Cancer should be removed from the host....permantly!
By all means, lock those 19 year old kids up for the rest of their lives, at a reasonable cost of some $5,000 per day.
In fact, since we're so tough on crime, let's go even further! Two guys get into a fight? Execute them both!
Someone runs off without paying for a magazine? Kill 'em!
Parking ticket? Death Penalty!
Sneezed in public? Life imprisonment will show you!
Doesn't a life term seem a little harsh for these damn kids? I mean, they robbed a store and stole a car. They didn't kill anyone. They didn't try to kill anyone. They didn't take anyone's life away. Why do you want to take theirs?
Some of you demanding the death penalty are the same ones who talk about Christian values when abortion comes up. Where are those values now? Or are you only Christian when it serves your interests?
I am surprised nobody has commented on the dog.
"The incident traumatized the family’s dog, too, Heidi Thompson said. The dog witnessed the carjacking."
Seems like the lower 48 save the chipmunk animal groups missed a big opportunity here to get a couple more years tacked onto these two "youthful Offenders". It was a good sentence.
Wrong RDPool. Some programs have actually made money for institutions. Prison Blues, a very successful program, was an experiment that taught inmates to manufacture clothing so they could get decent paying jobs when they got out of prison. I saw a piece about it years ago on the Phil Donahue Show. The audience, however, was completely against anyone serving time getting an education of any kind. It’s sad that so many people are so near sighted that they can’t understand you reap far more benefits providing rehabilitation than you do by stockpiling humans.
I have a friend who was a "career criminal" for many years, at the end of which he did 5 years. During that time he worked as an apprentice cabinet maker. He has been out for several years now.
His work experience in prison, along with his strong desire to NOT GO BACK TO PRISON, has allowed him to sucessfully integrate into the job market. He is now a contributing member of society.
His rehabilitation worked great. Society is better for it.
That is an awesome story Newsreader, and I hope that there are more people like him in the future I am all for people getting second chances or even third or fourth after they have done their time.
Lets just wait 9 or 10 years and see what happens.
My questions are: How many "chances" should people get before enough is enough? How many people does someone have to victimize?
Newsreader, I dont know what kind of crimes your friend was into, but how many victims did he make? Anyone in here been a victim of a crime where the perp got away? Maybe had valuable personal property taken or destroyed.
I do not think WE should be giving them a death sentence, but it is a crying shame that the manager that they terrorized was not carrying and dropped them both when they assaulted him!! I fully support an employee of a business that is conducting business and gets assaulted, they have the right to use deadly force. It is just a shame that deadly force was not dealt out this time. After a few instances of robbers/assaulters/gang members etc. getting killed over stuff like this, you would see a HUGE DROP in this type of crime!!
My apartment was burglarized years ago, and I had my truck stolen a couple of years back. I never wanted to see the perpetrator killed or sent to prison for life. First because I don’t think the punishment fits the crime if they have to pay with their life. Second because I can’t imagine how many prisons we would have to build to house that many people, if you lock them away forever.
scrabble, if you are fortunate enough not to be killed or injured by a perpetrator, and can drop them, you dont need a prison cell, you need a pine box for them!!
scrabble what if you had came up on the person while they where stealing your truck and they felt scared? Do you wait to see how they are going to react while they are committing a crime to remove them as a threat? No, sorry. Practical reasoning says they go before I do. That same line of thought says that if there is a potential they will come out of prison with the same desire to cause me harm then they should be kept away for good. I agree that building more and more prisons is ridiculous so we should do more to make jails a self sustaining buisness. If you want to build or open a medium or high security prison in any state then you should have a sustainable buisness plan to cover expenses. I believe that a prisoner should have the right to information on all levels, but to be comfortable? Hell to the no.
Ms. Thompson is quoted above as being afraid, and it has cost the family some income, and lower grades. I realize that the State is trying to focus on rehab for first time offenders, but I can't help my personal feelings regarding the State's lack of support for victims.
Having myself been on the receiving end of violent crime, I can offer this advise to Ms. Thompson and others like her. It's hard and I know you hate it, but get up go out and play, every day. Stand up, learn to defend yourself, walk down a dark street, do what ever it is you need to do. The day you quit your job, quit school, quit going out and seeing other people... the day you lock yourself in your house because you're afraid... that's the day they win.
No, your life will never be the same. You'll read articles in the paper like this one and remember that pain. But you can choose to rebuild your life.
RK
ps. The teen who committed the crime against our family was "rehabilitated" by the State, even received the Fairbanks Golden Heart Award for his volunteer work (in excess of his sentenced volunteer work) ... and yet, as an adult, he showed up in the police report for shop-lifting a few years later. Forgive me if I'm skeptical of the State's rehab program.
Yukon John I’m glad I wasn’t confronted with that. I’ve got a people gun a 9MM, don’t really know why anymore. The stuff I lost that was burgled was easy enough to replace and I went out and found the truck on my own, snowbound on the side of the road. If I had been confronted by the person that did either of the crimes and didn’t feel my life was at risk I would have let them run and called the cops. As it stands I have lived a whole lifetime and never had to know what it feels like to kill another human being and believe it or not I’m really happy to say that.
What really makes the difference is the attitude the convicted has toward his or her punishment. If you take responsibility for your actions, see your sentence as just, do your time, and make the most of any opportunity to change your life, then chances are, things will turn out better for you than if you simply blame the system and assume no responsibility.
This article outlined the things Parker and Pierce have already been doing to try to rehabilitate themselves. I saw nothing like that in the Skinner and Thomerson case and believe that the chances they will re-offend and remain unproductive members of society are much higher than the chances Parker and Pierce will do either...simply because of the apparent differences in attitude.
Likewise, the attitudes of the victims in this case have a lot to do with how they recover from the experience. I’m sure the situation was traumatic, but continuing to view oneself as a victim long after the day has passed really doesn’t make recovery happen any faster. RK seemed to have some sound advice on the matter.
Reader1 says -- "I dont know what kind of crimes your friend was into, but how many victims did he make?"
I guess that depends on how you define "victims". He moved some where in excess of $5 Million in coke & meth through our happy little town over the years (and he was just a mid-level middleman).
Some of it was to me. Am I his victim, or was I just stupid?
I can guarantee you that he never forced anyone to do anything and that he was in no way out "recruiting" new users - he could barely keep up with the demand as it was.
I agree that the attitude twards the punishment received is a big key. I think these gentleman have a great possiblity of being rehabilitated, as does Skinner, as I know some of his friends, who say that he is going to classes, in the jail for anger and such, I think that possibly he has found the thing to keep him straight and that is his family. As for Thomerson, there is probably no chance for rehabilitation as per the DA and the state of AK I guess he didnt do anything wrong. It didnt serve enough time to learn from his actions. We all can change if we want to.
newsreader-
Did your friend sell meth and coke to people who had kids? If so, I'd argue all day that, yes, he definitely had victims.
See now, Winter, I'd argue that Thomerson was also Skinner's victim. Come on, what's a 28 year old doing hanging around with a 21 year old? Skinner certainly wasn't mentoring Thomerson on how to be an upstanding adult. I'm not negating Thomerson's role, but it sure seems to me like there was a leader in that situation.
Yep, you're right, "We all can change if we want to." but the impetus for that change, in Skinner's case, needs to come from him, not his family.
newsreader, thats why I put that line in there. Because maybe he participated in a victimless crime.
hehe thats funny, that Thomerson was Skinners victim.... hehe... Sorry that makes me laugh ALOT. I guess we all cant know the whole story, hell maybe even I dont, but I can tell you from what I know from my friends that the ring leader was NOT Skinner, beleive what you must. But I will choose to beleive my friends who know the situation, but this is WAY off topic. Have a good Saturday.
I'm still very conflicted over whether the selling of drugs is a victimless crimes or not, honestly.
On the one hand, I definitely see what Imusuallyright is saying -- children probably did suffer INDIRECTLY from this person's drug dealing activities.
However, it was not my friend that victimized the children, that would have been their parents. The drug users came to him at all hours of the day and night, often times circling the house and pounding on the windows to get their fix. If they later victimized their children in some way, how is that my friends fault? He certainly didn't tell them to or advocate that in any way.
So, I see both sides of this argument, and, honestly don't know how I feel about it.
What I do know for certain is that this war on (some) drugs is NOT working and never will in its current form.
Drugs are supply and DEMAND. People want them.
If a parent is overweight and has a heart attack, that effects his kids. But you dont blame Hersheys. You dont blame Hostess for making the twinkie and walmart for selling it.
Reader1--
Your statement goes only goes so far. Sweets can be sold and consumed responsibly and legally. I don't think there's any way to reason that meth and coke can.
Newsreader--
I realize that the ultimate responsibility lies with parents. I also know if your friend had refused to sell to parents, they would have found someone else within the hour, so their kids would be affected, regardless. What I'm saying that kids are almost always the victims of their parents' drug use and the dealer plays a role in that, whether he realizes it or not.
Winter--
Yes, believe what you must.
Imusuallyright --
Again, I agree with your assessment, to a certain extent.
Except, I know someone who has smoked crack his entire adult life. For the most part he holds a job. He doesn't steal. He doesn't commit other crimes to support his habit. One could easily make the case that he is consuming it responsibly.
During my own 12 year addiction to meth, I never commited a crime to support my habit. I maintained a job with sufficient income the entire time. One could easily state the same thing about me.
So, I would argue that although rare, it most certainly IS possible to use those drugs with some amount of responsibility.
Also, I would draw a couple more analogies for you. First off, if I sell a hand gun to someone and they use it for illegal purposes (robbery or murder say), that is not my fault or responsibility.
The same can be said for a person who furnishes alcohol to someone who is stupid enough to get in their car and commit vehicular manslaughter. Is it the fault of the one who furnished the alcohol, or the one who got behind the wheel imapaired?
Anyone drink? I do so responsibly.
First time offenders of non violent crimes - fine - offer them an oportunity for rehabilitation. Second time offenders - execute them and get them out of our community! Those who bare false whitness, death penalty first offense!. None of us should ever - never have to fear or wonder about our safety walking down any street at any time of the day or night - period! None of us should ever have to worry about our homes or property being stolen or trespassed on at any time - period. What kind of idiot thinks it is OK to trespass and steal other's property...? I just can not fathom the stupidity of that back words thinking.
Newsreader-
In those rare cases where you state it is possible to use those drugs responsibly, it is still not legal. Now, I know that legalizing (some) drugs is another matter entirely, but for the time being, there is no secret of the fact that purchasing meth or coke comes with the risk of being caught, going to jail, losing your income, asking the State to support you during your stay in jail, often asking the State to defend you, taking your time and attention away from your family, etc. I firmly believe that still makes even the most responsible coke/heroin/meth user incredibly irresponsible.
Those are the tangible things. A little more abstract is the argument that knowing how dangerous and potentially addictive these drugs are, it is not at all responsible to use them. That gets into personal freedoms and, at some point; we all get the freedom to make dumb and unhealthy choices. When kids are involved, it is another story altogether and you won't convince me that it’s possible to use (those) drugs and still be the best parent you can be. That shortchanges kids in so many ways. Sorry-- I know I won't be swayed on that.
I’m limiting my statements here to the best case scenario: drug use. The implications of addictions and responsibility are more complicated. That discussion could get heated.
I'll assume in your handgun and alcohol analogies, those items are sold legally. Vendors in those cases are still held accountable. The sale of handguns is subject to background checks and those who sell alcohol may not do so to minors or someone who is obviously intoxicated. Can we ask drug dealers to be accountable like that?
RDPool:
You want to execute second-time offenders of non-violent crimes? Do you know anyone who has never gotten two parking tickets? You want to execute them? What about two speeding tickets? Isn't that a little harsh?
Henry: No one is suggesting any of the *gross exaggerations* you are assembling. They add little here.
Illegal 'hard drug' users fund violent people and gangs and end up turning to crime themselves out of desperation; they endanger everyone, so I don't have much problem with people who constitute the 'demand' for drugs getting jail time (though I think in this case there is good reason to try rehab in non-violent cases). They also cost all of us lots of money for their support, rehab, incarceration, social programs etc., a bill they should be presented with once rehabbed.
But in the case of these young men they each deliberately made the choice that their gain comes before other human beings safety and lives. I have no respect whatsoever for that kind of attitude and would have no problem at all with them rotting in prison until they are PHYSICALLY no longer dangerous. I have no faith in the idea that presented with a similar choice in the future they wouldn't repeat their decisions, and absolutely no trust in anything they may say to that effect. As stated, I persistently vote for people who share this view.
Fsjec9:
I have made no "gross exaggerations" here. Read RDPool's post. He spoke of executing second-time offenders for non-violent crimes. A parking ticket is a non-violent crime.
A parking ticket is an infraction, I believe.
OK.... if you say so.... you know as well as I do that interpreting that post as saying "2 tickets = death penalty" is just plain disingenuous..... but that's OK, I can skip them I guess.
I do believe there are many levels of crime that do not warrent the death penalty, and no, parking tickets do not constitute capital punishment. I don't care how many parking tickets you get, up until someone is hurt by it, like in blocking a fire hydrant, and the firemen can't hook up to the water main.
If a person trespasses and steals others property, or vandalizes, or caused physical harm to another like in this case, than yes, after the second event, they need to be removed from all communities for good. Folks who fight each other by mutual consent, fine, let them be, but any person who robs, steals, or violently distroys....second time their out, no strike three. Thats the problem, if they can't learn, why have them around. I do specifically mean those who violently tresspass on others, sane or insane, no excuse. Small children stealing candy at the store is when they are tought (not killed), but tought that it is wrong, and if they do not learn from that, than when they grow up and steal, than they need to go away permantly. A person who trespasses with no harm intended, like walking in the woods and through someones unmarked property line in the middle of now where does not warrent such punishment either. Try to get the point of violence involved with the crime. Speeding away from a police officer at a high rate of speed is violent, and the second time this happens, well.....there should never be a third time,,,never.
As for drug use, if you don't hurt anyone, have at it. But the second you do, there should never be a third chance. I don't care how down and out you are. It is such a small percent of our population that inflicts the worst crimes on us all and makes us all pay a high price for their mis-deeds.
Except for violent trespass on women and children, first timers should get a second chance, but do not deserve a third. Remember - I mean those crimes accompanied with violence or stealing form others.
I would even go as far to say a person can make many mistakes of a differing nature, but if of the same violent nature on the second time around, than good-bye.
RDP-
Does an embezzler or a white collar criminal (let's say they've stolen thousands) get a third chance?
..or I guess, second chance, using your system?
To clarify, to me there is a fundamental difference between violent and non-violent crime, and currently violent crime is not dealt with harshly enough (for example the needless plea deal the Frontier bandits were offered). Such perpetrators demostrate a very basic contempt for the health and lives of others which is inexcusable, and should NOT be tolerated....
Some may find it odd but I in fact oppose the death penalty except in cases of absolute surety of guilt of a crime of violence; once done, this cannot be undone, and I find the fact that so many 'death row' inmates are turning out to have been innocent to be very alarming. It means probably dozens of people have been executed in the US who were not guilty.
wheres the police blotter??? bring it back please
The public safety report is found under "News" on the Newsminer homepage.
I do not know all of the rules, but some white colar crimes should result in capital punishment the second time around as well, and maybe if it involves stealing from folks and causes harm, than maybe it warrents the worst the first time around,,,,,that will have to be decided by perhaps a jury (novel idea). I do believe that those few people at the top of Enron should be executed for stealing and destroying so much from so many.
I agree with fsjec6 about capital punishment. It must be for absolute guilt. That is why I say capital punishment for people who bear false witness against another - it wrongfully punishes the inocent. Tell the truth and nothing but the truth when it effects someone's life.
Are we off subject? Police blotter???
We're always off subject to some extent.
What about this: I know a twice-convicted felon (both times for theft, non-violent) who swears he has no victims because no one was actually hurt in the commission of his crimes. I know what I think about that, but who actually gets to decide how much harm has been caused by such a crime? Or any crime for that matter? The Thompsons in the above story say that they're still suffering from the events that took place. Different people in the same situation may have a different perspective and would have put it behind them and not considered themselves harmed by the crime in any way. Would punishments differ depending on the constitution or outlook of the victim? If so, how does the judicial system ensure that punishments are fair?
Theft, while it can be non-violent, is certainly not victim-less. I can attest personally to this having lost irreplaceable property to a thief several years ago. Someone who has engaged in it but claims he 'has no victims' is in denial and has not accepted responsibility for his actions, and needs to bunk in jail until he comes to terms with it.
Thankfully, he's in his bunk as we type. I don't know about ever coming to terms with it, though.
Yes, if a person steals a $5 dollar item from any property not of their own, and they get caught, the first time around they can have it explained how wrong it is to steal from others and compensate the victim replacement costs for what ever they stole. Steal anything over $25 dollar value, and you go to jail with only bread and water for a time. The second time you steal a $5 dollar item from any property, you die! Get the word Steal. It is not yours. People who steal snowmachines from others....should go to jail for a long time, with only bread and water, say, 5 years for a snowmachine first time. Second time theft, capital punishment. Stealing is wrong, I don't care if you want to let the criminal go for stealing your property, don't report the crime, but if it gets reported, suffer the consequences.
RDP-
Your system would probably deter a lot of crime, but I don't think the U.S. is anywhere close to considering it.
Yea, I only mean to offer support to be tougher on criminals. The cost of their incarceration is absalutly wrong. If they mis-behave while behind bars, quit feeding them. All those bleading hearts out there don't understand the high price that their lax views and actions cuases our society.
I pretty much read all the traffic on this issue, and I wanted to say that I got my eye on some property that ain't mine. I see no reason to work for it when all this stuff is there for the taking. No one has a right to deny me MY RIGHT to steal. And God knows no matter what I do no one has the right to kill me for it, however if you catch me stealing "your" property, remember I have a split second decision to defend myself. I strongly feel you should accept the fact that I'm taking "your" property and you should replace it on "your" own. If I'm caught I blame everyone else, it's not my fault. Plus I can't wait to go to prison... 3 meals, a paid college degree and free health care, cable TV and I don't have to pay the high price for gas. The state will drive me where I need to go.
Now who has a new flat screen TV in there home and does anyone have any 40 cal bullets, I'm low..... sounds stupid doesn't it...
Wow sometimes reading the opinions here gives me a headache. It’s like falling through the flipping looking glass.
"You’re talking about killing kids, kids who have a shot at becoming productive members of society."
Yeah, right. They have about as much of a shot of becoming productive members of society as I do of winning a lottery. I am always amused at how at sentencing hearings the defense always trots out the social workers, ministers, teachers, etc., to shovel on the B.S. about the criminals in attempting to reduce or eliminate punishment. These two did nt get nearly enough time. Fortunatly you can bet that neither is likely to get through the suspended time at the end without screwing up and being jailed again.
All I said was they have a shot. I didn’t say they would become productive members of society. But you somehow know they won’t make it. What is it card reading or a crystal ball? What’s your secret? Can you tell me what time the ice is going out, because I’m sure you must have the winning ice classic ticket right?
RDPool, great idea, except for that whole pesky constitution thingy that some people think we should abide by because, you know, our whole country is founded on it and stuff. Specifically, the eighth amendment, which is pretty clear and to the point: Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
I certainly think bread and water for years in jail would apply as cruel punishment. And more importantly (since what you and I think doesn't really matter), so do the courts. And the same goes for capital punishment after their second misdemeanor.
One of these is already a repeat offender. One of the worst things that has happened in our legel system, is the closing and confidentiality of minor's records. Get rid of this useless practice, and we can get back to teaching our kids to grow up better educated. It will better teach our society to be responsible for their actions.
On some countries if you are sent to prison, unless your friends or relatives bring you food, you starve.
Wouldn't that be great for our country!
Chelly you should go close your hand in a door jamb or drop something heavy on your head. It will be just as constructive and less painful than talking sense to people who are posting here.
I think nine years is fair. These kids committed a crime & they aren't getting a slap on the hand, but an appropriate punishment. I do wish though that rapists & murderers were getting commensurate sentences.
Lets see, they planned the invasion, executed their plan, arranged for impromptu transportation, terrorized the dog, overcame and adapted to every unforeseen circumstance, and all the while accomplished the mission of denying the enemy valuable resources.
Looks like we may have some new recruits.
Maybe they can find Bin Laden
I like that sherrif Joe Aripio or whatever his name is in Phoenix:
Offer prisoners the option to work, instead of just giving them a warm bed and food.
I think that sentences should be reduced if prisoners are willing to put in a full weeks worth of hard work every week they are jailed.
It makes one feel good if they put in a hard days work. Breaking rocks in prison may suck, but when they get out and get a job it will be no big deal, because now they are trained to work hard and also respect themselves for being able to finally stand on their own and not expect a free ride.
Also a bad thing is a private prison system that profits when a prisoner has to stay longer. "come back again soon!" is privitizing prison systems end result.
Take the bread and water only as a metafor. Cruel and unusual punishment was to get rid of torture processes - not menial food rations. You all have to admit, there is really something wrong with many of our prisons when the incarcerated eat better than the free responsible working peoples.
Rehab?!!? Yeah, right! That's the farce they're counting on... to get out! I'll bet this was their very FIRST escapade into breaking the LAW... and they got caught. Get real! These types... NEVER think ANY law is meant for them.
All this talk of "rehabilitation." 1. These are just kids. 2. Kids make mistakes. 3. Let's give them another chance. And look what we have to pay in taxes to educate these kids, allowing them their personal freedom in wearing whatever they d**m choose. Let's pump more and more money into the fabulous houses of education, more computers, more facilites, better classrooms, the latest gadgets .... and still they can't read and write. But, the children have grown into adults with unique personalities! Bring back some discipline!
Well, let's hope they're smart enough not to listen to you naysayers. What happens if they prove you wrong? How in the world would you explain that?
Sow and reap.
Prison should be to CONVINCE the offender to not commit crimes again.
Instead it is too often just a continuance of the public school system. A bunch of distractions that in the end might make you a good counsler to tell others how to feel good about themselves, but most likely you will end up needing counseling yourself, instead of being a contributing member of society.
You are so right 2cold, I remember in the 6th grade when I was forcibly raped and another student who branded my butt so everyone knew I was his meat. Oh hold on that was an episode of the HBO series Oz.
scrabble, you are funny, I also had a horrible time in public school.
(not as bad as you though)
A few points on which I'd like to comment on...
newsreader...no CRIMES were committed during your 12 year meth habit? Um, hate to break it to you, but making AND purchasing meth...both crimes. You either made it or bought it, right? YOU WERE A CRIMINAL. Deal with it, it's true.
As for "rehabilitation" for any of the young men being discussed in the article or the comments...how much "rehab" do you think the state is springing for when the state dept. of corrections is a) hopelessly overcrowded, b) incredibly understaffed, c)getting ready to build a new jail (believe THAT when I see it) and d) apparently, at WAR with the officers union? If ANYONE believes that appropriate and plentiful programs are readily available in Alaska jails, you are hopelessly naive. Talk to even one person housed in jail here and ASK what is available. REALLY. MOST inmates in custody in AK jails will be back...and that is a FACT. Check it out yourself by reading the Alaska Judicial Council report on recidivism.