UAF study shows high school boys have unrealistic goals, girls more grounded
by Jeff Richardson / jrichardson@newsminer.com
Feb 08, 2010 | 2793 views | 24 24 comments | 20 20 recommendations | email to a friend | print
FAIRBANKS — A recent education survey that included local high school seniors reports many boys have unrealistic goals for their future, especially compared to the more grounded girls in their classes.

University of Alaska Fairbanks psychology professor Judith Kleinfeld’s study, “No Map to Manhood,” showed boys were less likely to have college plans, and often had goals for long-shot careers like video game designers or movie directors. She said many thought they would land a high-paying career out of college and didn’t realize how difficult it was to get a good job.

“They had the craziest ideas about the labor market. … They were just kind of drifting,” she said.

It was a stark contrast to her interviews with girls, Kleinfeld said. They were not only much more likely to have college plans, but also seemed to better understand how to pursue a career.

Kleinfeld surveyed 99 randomly selected high school seniors in Alaska, with the participants divided between one high school in Fairbanks and one in Anchorage. The schools were not identified to maintain anonymity, Kleinfeld said. The study results were published recently in the journal Gender Issues.

Kleinfeld’s psychology students at UAF were asked to survey high school friends and acquaintances, and received largely similar results.

Kleinfeld acknowledged that the sample size of her interview subjects is small and geographically limited. But she believes the responses she received are a small but illuminating peek into what is pushing high school students.

Kleinfeld has long been an advocate for improvements in boys’ education. She is director of The Boys Project, a national program that “aims to promote discussion and action on the educational and cultural needs of boys.”

She said statistics have long shown a growing achievement gap between boys and girls, especially when it comes to college participation. But few studies have looked at why students take the paths they do.

“Virtually no one had asked why these kids were making the decisions they were making,” Kleinfeld said.

A gender gap was mirrored in her survey participants — 64 percent of girls were planning to go to college, compared to only 40 percent of boys.

Of the boys who didn’t plan to go to college, few were interesting in pursuing careers in the trades as an alternative. Kleinfeld said fewer than 15 percent were planning to head in that direction.

Kleinfeld said girls seemed to be influenced by the women’s movement. Most had a strong desire to make their own living and be capable of supporting themselves.

The boys, on the other hand, didn’t seem to be influenced by those factors at all. One of the most common responses she received was that boys simply didn’t enjoy their education and were ready to move on.

“I don’t think you can overemphasize the fact that they didn’t like school,” Kleinfeld said.

Kleinfeld believes there isn’t a simple reason for the disparity between boys and girls. Parents and teachers have long pushed girls to achieve, she said, sometimes because of a misperception that they lag behind academically. She also said school counselors need to do a better job of communicating the realities of the job market.

Kleinfeld said methods that interest boys, such as boosting activity, structure, humor and adventure, aren’t explored often enough in schools.

“A good job is being done with the girls,” she said. “It’s the boys that are being failed.”

Wayne Gerke, the assistant superintendent for secondary schools in the Fairbanks North Star Borough School District, said it’s hard to generalize about student goals and achievement, although it has become more evident that boys and girls learn differently. He said the district recognizes more needs to be done to prepare both boys and girls for life after high school.

Gerke said students have been meeting with high school counselors in eighth grade to help them evaluate their goals. He said efforts to reform secondary schools, such as the use of individual learning plans and a new career development program among counselors, is aimed at improving those areas.

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RabbleRabble
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February 08, 2010
say_what64: I think you just might be my hero for the night.
say_what64
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February 08, 2010
I'm not sure that the statistics related here, actually have any relation to the underlying problems. I can tell you this much though. Girls and boys have no concept of real world life! They are not taught our tax structures, how to balance a check book, how to count back change in their own currency system or even how to read a tape measure! Are those things the students fault?

Teachers don't seem to understand the importance of their own actions. We teach as much or more, by what we do as what we say! How can we expect the students to understand the difference between professional ethics and the grunge thing! How many times have you seen the students come to class and not be met by the teacher? If you think that does not happen, you should visit your school. Why would a teacher show up in sweats for a formal class? Oh yes, that happens also! How about a teacher showing up with a cup of coffee and a doughnut in a baggie? It's about professionalism and many of our current teachers don't have that quality. Why do you think that is? It's because their teachers didn't have it either!

How about methods of instruction violations like talking to the black board while you write, rather than speaking directly to the students! Maybe walking in front of the projector or changing the transparency while the projector is on, or playing with the change in your pocket while giving a lecture, or sitting on your desk or backwards on a student desk during the presentation. These and many others are obnoxious, distractive mannerisms, that have no place in the classrooms. How do we propose to teach the students about professionalism, when we don't know it ourselves. How is a teachers certificate ever awarded to one that doesn't understand the whole, method of instruction concept? Do we have some basic problems? Yes, we do!
mullinsme
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February 08, 2010
This is nothing new, except for improved service for the girls. In the 1960s, the education was better, and the boys were more interested. But the job counseling wouldn't note obvious problems that would make certain careers impossible. In fact, one salutatorian advised his class to use common sense in career planning. (A good idea; he reached retirement eligibility with 35 years with the employer.)
Boodrow
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February 08, 2010
Most of our public schools are run by liberal leaning politically correct women. The boys are tolerated but only if they follow the stifling policality correct atmosphere. They are not allowed to be boys so most have a distaste for education and want to get out and get away from it. Boys learn better if taught by men with men making and enforcing the rules.
happyAKmommy
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February 08, 2010
Adversary,

I like your last comment about the dumbing down of society - sounds like something from John Tayllor Gatto - very insightful.

This article just gives me one more reason to continue with homeschool, so my children can know who they really are (children of God) and will know what their real mission in life is. Whether they are the garbage man or a world leader, they will hopefully be doing something that they LOVE and that brings them JOY.

It's great to have goals and dreams, but it's also good to have a plan B...or C.
leecris
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February 08, 2010
Kids who grow up expecting to have to do chores at home to earn their allowance, to bring home good grades, to get a part-time job as soon as they can work to save up for things they want, can expect to succeed as adults. It's the kids who never have to work at anything who grow up with unrealistic expectations about life. Parents who let their kids slide through life, handing them things they should have to earn themselves, telling them what a bum the teacher requiring daily homework is - those parents fail their kids. Whether the school is public or private isn't as relevant as whether the parents at home are working hard and promoting working hard at what you do - school when you are a kid, work as soon as you can to get the things you want, work as an adult to support yourself first and a family when you have one. School can't succeed without the support of the family at home.
Setec
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February 08, 2010
I think it's fine to point students in a realistic direction. The people who actually have a shot at "unrealistic" careers--being the next Stephen Hawking or Bill Gates or something--don't need any encouragement to know it. To people with that kind of potential, high school is so easy it's a joke. Nothing people tell them about realistic expectations will dissuade those who know they're exceptional.
Adversary
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February 08, 2010
Maybe if our public education system wasn't such a gross failure we wouldn't need college courses on english and economics to begin with. If we are going to fix something we need to fix public schools first.

I'm in my twenties and did not attend a public high school. I can tell you that many of the people in my generation were done a disservice by public school and it is amazing that they function as adults. It is only getting worse as I see the new cirriculum and teaching methods.

I believe what we are seeing is a systematic dumbing down of Americans because a stupid population is easier to control that an intelligent and informed population.
mackie1
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February 08, 2010
I'm not going to finish school,just play hockey and knock up the Gov's daughter.Exploit my child,get exploited,get naked,help my mom,and make millions."Sorry son-thats not realistic."
Adversary
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February 08, 2010
Plebian -

I worked through college. I graduated with a BS and MS here from UAF with zero debt. How? I didn't live at the dorms for part of it. I also had a full time job. There is no reason why someone cannot be a full time student and work a full time job (or a few part-time jobs.) I saw students taking out massive loans to help pay for classes, books, housing, and also food and computers and games...

Anyhow, no, it isn't always worth it. College is nothing more than an opportunity and you get out of it what you put into it. But if you do make it to graduation it does mean you at least had enough resilience and perseverance to finish something.

It isn't worth it for everyone. Trade schools can be wonderful, and so can on the job training.

But when you want to work "office jobs" or white-collar jobs, it is worth it to set yourself apart from the rest of the crowd.

For what it is worth, I think every American should be forced to learn english as if it were a foreign language. I also think things like sports and art need to be cut from public schools and children need to focus on things like economics, politics, math, and english. You cannot be a successful, informed adult if you don't know how and why the world around you works. It is a shame that most high-school students don't even have their own checking account, let alone the knowledge to balance their checkbook.
TheAlaskaCurmudgeon
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February 08, 2010
When I first entered college, I had what seemed to be highly unrealistic goals about how much beer I could drink. But by the time I reached graduation, I had exceeded them.

I strive for excellence.

Plebeian
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February 08, 2010
Adversary,

I understand they use it for it, and I understand there are benefits to it, but do the benefits really outweigh the downsides? There are plenty of fields that require a degree, engineering, math, computing, medicine, biology, etc.

But even many of those classes are packed excessively with "feel good" classes, costing the students many thousands of dollars. And most schools don't even require a simple economics class, yet require people to take a foreign language.

Which is more useful? Which is more lacking? Yes, there are good degrees out there, but how much time and money are colleges requiring people to waste on things they don't really need?

The average kid graduates college w/ $21,000 in debt. And there are plenty of college degrees (4 yr) that average you making less than $30k a year out of the shoot.

I realize there is a place for higher education, but it's out of control and needs to be reigned in.
Adversary
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February 08, 2010
Plebian,

With regards to why business requires a college degree -

My theory is that it is easier to weed out the people that don't try. The college degree now is like the High School diploma from 50 years ago. If you have a thousand applicants for a job it can be easiest to weed them out based on that metric. "This person graduated from college, so it is obvious they can put in effort and learn."

This isn't to say anyone with a college degree is smarter or harder working than someone without one...but when faced with 1,000 applications it can be a good place to start. You might miss that diamond in the rough who didn't have the money to attend college, but it isn't always feasible to read every resume.

Also, with University degrees, you get someone who is well rounded. I had to take english, political science, sociology, etc. along with my course studies. I can write a legible, thoughtful email. I can't even tell you how many emails I receive on a daily basis that look like they were written by someone with a 7th grade education. And these are supposed to be professionals.

The most important thing I took away from college is learning HOW to learn. So many people simply do not have any idea how to go about learning some new topic. I've proven to my employer, by way of a degree, that you can give me any type of material and I can learn it.
Adversary
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February 08, 2010
How about we start teaching this to all children:

It is good to have hopes and dreams, but they need to be realistic. Try your hardest at doing what you want to do, but at some point (around the time you have a child) you need to be making money. Giving up on unrealistic goals (or at least making them secondary) is the smart thing to do when you find yourself 40 years old still waiting for that big debut as a director.

It is okay if you play the lottery every day...but you also need to have a stable job to support your family.
Plebeian
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February 08, 2010
Got it 1952tat2...

Misread, sorry about that. I just can't understand why so many businesses now require college for things that have nothing to do with college.

They require kids to start out with sometimes many tens of thousands of debt just to get their foot in the door.

No wonder our society is going broke.
Buick-Mackane
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February 08, 2010
I wonder if woman's movements had/have any causal effect on conflicts of parental roles,thus resulting in broken and single families. I also wonder if there is a difference in perception between boys of single parents ( normally mother) and those with both parents. It would be interesting to interview the two groups and see if there's a noticeable difference. It wouldn't hurt to study those with a male single parent as well , for a control group if anything.
robbmyers
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February 08, 2010
Shokd, maybe add teachers with the self-esteem mumbo jumbo to that. When the boys think that they are God's gift to the world (except that the schools don't teach the God part), their goals probably won't reflect reality.
Shokd
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February 08, 2010
What? Boys have unrealistic goals? You mean parents leaving their kids to be raised by the television is yeilding kids with some pretty goofy notions?

Who'd a thought?!

And:

"Kleinfeld said methods that interest boys..."

We've been emasculating our society for far too long. Sure, it works in favor of businesses and government to have a whole male population that's sissyfied and won't stand up for themselves or their families or communities, but at what cost?

Goes back to parenting, though. Parents, don't expect your kids indoctrination... er, education... determine who and what they are.
Adversary
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February 08, 2010
There are realistic goals, difficult goals, and lottery goals.

Realistic goals would be wanting to be a teacher, a firefighter, a welder, a nurse or a biologist.

Difficult goals would include becoming a doctor or an engineer.

Then there are the lottery goals. Hollywoord director, producer, video game designer for iD or an animator for Pixar. These are the jobs that everyone wants. Everyone wants to get paid $150k to play video games, or be the guy that spray-painted the costume onto Mystique... but the fact is that there are only a handful of jobs out there and the same 6.5 billion people that would love them.

Don't give up on your goals...but have a backup plan. Be an electrician to support your family, and in your spare time try to become that one-in-a-million shot directing movies. Don't say "My goal is to win the lottery." That sets you up for failure.
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